Tac-lights and house guns

[inplanotx]

Just so we are clear on this, I am enjoying the arguments on both sides. Please do not let pettiness lose this argument.
I agree with both of you and I for one know exactly what I would do put into a situation where a perp has entered my home. Fortunately, it is only me and the dog, so considering that he only stands 20" tall, anything over that is DEAD!

What I believe we have here is you Delta, a professional going INTO a situation from the outside and LTS, NAW, just cain't say it, a professional on the inside and knows Texas laws; i.e. "you enter my house, you die". God, I love this state!

Delta, I believe all you say is good and well tested theory, but based upon your training limits you seeing things as "entering a perps domain". This is all well and good and do not think it demeaning in any way. However, you are trained in a specific manner that involves your TEAM! A homeowner does not have that luxury, he is a team of ONE! The object is to win, perp or perps be dead. That can be the only outcome. What LTS is saying refers to the latter and would apply to my case. I have no assessment to make except to know that someone is in my house and he needs to be dead! When Texas Scootin Jack alerts during the night, that is what will happen.

What are your opinions on that? I am interested in your opinion and I hope that you are in mine! Thanks.

By the way, I have a prettier tutu!

[Shooter45]

I'm really enjoying this thread and hope everyone is learning something. As you can see,training is very important to avoid a lifelong mistake. Killing is the easy part but you still have to live with it for the rest of your life and sometimes wonder if you did the right thing. All that in a split second.

Sometimes,during a heated discussion,tempers flair so please remember to agree to disagree.

Thanks Gentlemen. Now, carry on.

[armedandsafe]

To walk away. Walk as far as you want, you will never be away. There is no such thing. It is only the beginning.

LTS, I carry scars and metal around because I assessed the situation before pulling the trigger. I still think, right now, 45 years later, I did it right. And I still think about those times. I wasn't in "combat," with the known expectation of action, and I was not in an "agressor" task, so I had not the mental preparation beforehand to psyche me up. Training tells.

I think d13st knows his ****, whether it has hit the fan or not. He reminds me of a couple of the SAS fellows who beat up on us for 6 weeks in England.

Pops

[LIKTOSHOOT]

Pops, it`s the job of the Royal Marines and SAS to beat the fluff off US trained military, should they venture to the next level. Glad you survived it-most don`t.


LTS

[delta13soultaker]

Inplanotx, that is one fine tutu. You need a chaperon to walk around like that. My tutu is getting scratchy and kinda tight so I think I'll put back on my faded loincloth and sweaty headband.

On my street the last guy that said "Texas" instead of "Republic of Texas" was skull dragged down to the pasture and branded, but he is getting it mostly right now. (He is still on probabation and must kiss your spurs if at any time your beer pitcher is less full than his.) Texas is a good state in that it does give the honest citizen more room to defens himself than many others. However, people do fall through the cracks even here; and since a lot of people don't live in Texas, there are other considerations.

No matter who you are, regardless of capacity or your intention, homeowner or ranch hand or state trooper, I believe (speaking for myself here) that when you pick up a weapon you inadvertantly owe certain responsibilities to your community and obligations to every citizen. You can be doing your best to be the good guy, but if you disregard those obligations then you are at risk of being reckless and not too different than a drive-by shooter or mugger. I think of it this way, when the anti-gun lobby flaunts statistics they use gun crime numbers because they are the most infamous, BUT when they recite instances, they use documented cases of well intentioned gun owners who made poor choices at the needless expense of innocent life and never mention the difference from those crime numbers; this hits us the hardest where it hurts as gun owners. Every time a well intentioned person does this, they shoot another hole in the bottom of our boat. It is easy to be our own worst enemy and we are.

Another thing. I know a defense lawyer from Chicago, who is a part time Devil Dog officer when his one weekend a month, two weeks a year, six months when USMC says so comes around. We've had some interesting conversations. A creep that kills a lady for her car gets charged the same fees as a man protecting his family who went too far. Right now there is more than one decent fellow who thought he was in the right at some point that is sitting in a cell the next three years beside a punk who shot a store clerk.

Having said that, a man will do as he wants, Texas or otherwise, and that's the way it should be.

Shooter45, you summed up my gist in a few skillful sentences.

Armedandsafe, SAS is so tuff the can eat cream of mushroom soup cold from the can with no spoon. The first time I ever met a Brit trooper he said to me "What's closer mate, a taxi or a whorehouse?". I was at a NATO patrol course in the middle of Sheepscrew, Bavaria, while they and others from the multinational units were doing some evasion/resistance stuff, them running around in below zero night wearing clothes they made from garbage and no equipment at all evading dog teams and helicopters and all that. We came across one trooper who had dug in frozen ground mostly with his bare hands for concealment or warmth, and I mean he was missing finger nails, and was not about to quit either. I think that kat had sores on his but that if left to fester would eventually become a decent SPETSNAZ team. Man there are a lot worse organizations to get beat up by than the SAS.

[stash247]

Hey Delta; how far from Spring Lake or Southern Pines is home? You sound like me, 25 years ago.
All good advice; common sense, and ethics, will always bear the test of time.

[armedandsafe]

Man there are a lot worse organizations to get beat up by than the SAS.

When we were dismissed at the end of training, we swarmed the DI. There were 20 of us and one of him. We were almost outnumbered.

I remembered some of what he tried to teach us when we got a mission. It kept me alive in a pretty dicey situation. Hungarian border guard wanted us to accompany him and we didn't want to.

Pops

[delta13soultaker]

Stash, you talking about over on the other side of post from Fayetteville I guess. (Send me a grid...hee hee.) Funny you mentioned Southern Pines, cause I met my wife at Pinebluff. But naw, I'm pretty far from calling that home for until I don't know when. I got volunteered (yeah DA select) for Drill Sergeant school this summer, so I'm about to be calling GA or SC home for the next 2-3 years it looks like. Oh, the fun...

Armedandsafe, yeah twenty to one sounds about right for them guys. The only time I almost got the honor of serving with them on a "real-world mission" was because somebody (I think somewhere up the line we were under same command, but it was up the line enough to get a bad picture.) presumed they were in a bind. They were on the wrong side of a ground safety zone, or maybe right side since they went there on purpose, for what exactly I'll never know, and from were my unit was it looked like a hell of a mess. It was not a big element and the other guys at that time were allowed to own that buffer area, which they did in large volume.So we got authorized (ordered) to move in there with another element, which you can imagined was half-assed, with the intention of helping them get back on the right side; or maybe wrong side cause remember nobody asked them yet, so I won't say an extraction. Well we got pretty far along, far enough to get a commander possibly fired, and somebody who could actually hear or see what was going on, maybe a GSR team or those types, told us to the effect of "Go away, they got it no sweat, get back in your area of responsibility NOW." and we did. Luckily we were in an area vehicles could operate, not as verticle as other places, cause it would of been one ugly hump in and out for nothing. But those fellows all came out, on their own, when they were ready. Later on that ground safety zone was collapsed (excessive firepower applied swiftly over a narrow area) and we never had to deal with that crap again, but the lesson for me was: the Brit's had people who could cross the worst borders in the world on their own terms and come back, with everybody. Twenty to one ain't fair; bring more I say.

[stash247]

Delta 13: CHILL OUT! I played in your woods a long time ago; look up "Bear " Martin, Joe Martin, Rich Saucedo, or Jack Singlaub for my credentials.
You're dealing with virgins in a whore's market!
The most of the world goes along to git along, and only squeals when stung bad; a pro looks at things a bit differently.
Remember yesterday, when you went where ever you went, and, subconsciously, looked behind every door, and wall? Went to eat, and took the chair facing the enterance, with a wall to your back?
You, me, and many others wear this curse to the grave, because we did the do, as pros, but all to whom you speak have not walked them roads, nor heard the words.
Lighten up, and get real. PM me, if you want. Terry

[stash247]

Delta, somehow , I missed your last post, but yes, northeast or southeast, of Bragg, proper.
Lived on the Hill for several years; JFK Specwar, then.
These are Christian people, on this board, and not cogniscent of the standards held on the Hill; that being said, let's take this private, if we continue, OK?

[delta13soultaker]

Eh, hang on. Nothing that dramatic. I'm only here for the beer, man. (See look! I'm steppin' away from the rusty K-bar, bro.) Stay Kool

[Neil]

Well not to bring the topic back to Tac lights in the home or anything like that but I feel that giving up your location with a light is a bad Idea (my .02$) On the other side of the coin I have had a SureFire Tac light shined in my face and let me tell you what all I saw was white. them buggers are blinding like some one else here said. so I'm six or half dozen on this matter, However I would like to see the whites of the eyes of the person I'm about to end before I do so, for fear of it being a family member.

[delta13soultaker]

Yeah there sure is two sides to a coin.

They will blind the crap outa someone, but only one at a time. Like if their are a pair or more, I guess blind the most dangerous one...lol. The flip side to that intense beam is loss of night vision, so all that about "head on a swivel" gets tricky when you're waving the gun everywhere you look.

Which brings me to the family member thing. I'm not fond of the idea of pointing a weapon at a family member in the middle of the night under stressful circumstances. Even if a person has hundreds of training hours with the weapon system, the thought makes me nervous, let alone if it involves a gun-store cowboy.

[tucsonpilot]

Just picked this up for the nightstand.

[Xracer]

Well, I, for one, love TacLites......they make great aiming points!

Remember, in your darkened home, you have the advantage. You know where everything is.....the layout of the rooms, the doorways, the furniture, how many steps on the stairs......

If you have the proper weapon, the ability to use it, and patience......in your home, the dark is your friend.

[Popeye]

I just read this entire thread. Finally the last posting (the one before this one) made sense. My house, my stomping grounds. I know the layout, the BG doesn't. He needs a light, I don't.

In my opinion Tac-Lights for civilians are an evil plot to seperate you from your money. They are neat and cool and unnecessary.

[JohnK3]

I have a "tac-light" at home. A Surefire Nitrolon. It's a handy little flashlight and I like it a lot. I use it all the time and have to fight the kids to make sure they don't run the batteries out.

If someone were to break into my house, however, I'd leave the flashlight where it was and gather the family into my bedroom. I'd use a cellphone to call the cops and warn anyone in the house (in a rather loud voice) that I've called the police, I'm armed and to leave immediately. Anybody that steps through the bedroom door that doesn't satisfy me that they're the police gets the contents of my gun and my wife's gun. Simultaneously. (Heck, the 17 year old might even unload on the sucker, as well!)

Yes, I know the house better. But I'm not playing tag in my house with a predator.