44 rimfire Smith&Wesson ModII, Turkey - The Firearms Forum

Turbinee · 04-09-2005, 02:47 PM

Hi to you all,
I have a question, I cant find the answer to, I'll post a pic. as well.
I have two S&W 44 rimfire ModII made for the Turkish army. What I know is that on was made in 1000 pc. the other 7000 pc.
Cant seem to find any info. on pricing or how many are there left.
Maybe you can guide me to some links and other info.
I've compered them to a regular centerfire Russian and they are close in frame and workings.

Thanks

Xracer · 04-10-2005, 07:51 AM

Hi Turbinee......welcome to TFF.

Are you sure your guns are Turkish Models? The reason I ask is that the Model 3 American 1st Model, the Model 3 American 2nd Model, and some Russian Models were also made in .44 Henry Rimfire.

If yours is a Turk, there were 5,461 made between 1879 and 1882 and made in their own serial range #1 thru 5,461. They were in .44 Henry Rimfire. They were stamped with the letters "P", "U", and "AFC" on various parts of the revolver. They should have 6.5" barrels, be blue with walnut grips and have a lanyard swivel on the butt.

Turkish Model value:

V.G. - $7,000
Good - $3,500
Fair - $1,750

This info came from the Standard Catalog of Firearms.

Turbinee · 04-10-2005, 10:29 AM

Thanks for the response.
I'm not 100% sure, but that's all the info I could find.
I can't seem to find serial numbers on those two rimfire revolvers. You can see on the pic. the russian one has a serial No. on the barrel but not the other two. Some sources say that the inscribtion is in arabic, other that there are letters all over the revolvers.

Xracer · 04-10-2005, 02:31 PM

OK.....let's approach this systematically. The last three pix you posted (patent dates, "Russian Model", and foreign writing)....are these all the same revolver? If so, that's a Russian Model...the writing is in the Cyrillic alphabet, which the Russians use. What caliber is this gun? What is the barrel length? What is the serial #? What are the other markings on it?

Can you post a full length side view of this gun?

Let's figure this one out for sure, then we'll put it aside and look at the other two.

Turbinee · 04-10-2005, 05:28 PM

Thanks for taking this seriously.
The third pic. I posted is of the two rimfire revolvers next to a russion one for comparison(the one with cirylic writing). The English writing revolvers are the one in question. The caliber is exacly 11 mm. on one and 11.5 mm. on the other. They are both 44 rimfire, but one is the original 44 and the other the russion version of 44 rimfire from what I know.
Below is the pic of both English writing revolvers without serial No. ,one next to another, those are the revolvers I think were made for testing from the Turkish army.
THe one with the big hold-down bolt for the spring that holds the drum in place has 554 engraved on the drum

Xracer · 04-10-2005, 07:13 PM

WHOA! You're mixing up apples, oranges, and peaches. Let's do this one gun at a time! And please answer my questions.

First.....am I correct in my assumption that you have 3 revolvers. One centerfire and two rimfires? If this is so, let's make sure of the identification of the centerfire revolver first. We'll call this gun CF-1. (Put the rimfires away....we'll get to them later)

On CF-1, please post a clear side view of the full length of the revolver. And please answer all of the questions.

1.) Is it blued or nickle plated?

2.) What caliber is it?

3.) What is the barrel length?

4.) List all of the writing on the barrel.....exactly as it appears.

5.) What is the Serial #? (you can X out the last two digits, if you like)

6.) What type of grips does it have?

7.) Does it have a lanyard loop at the bottom of the grip?

8.) Is there any marking on the butt?

Turbinee · 04-10-2005, 07:31 PM

LOL, I know I'm mixing it all up, but there is a little problem: see all my pictures are mixed, I took them like that. I have the revolvers at my father now so the only thing here are the photos. I have the russian one identified (the one with the cirylic writing), so I'm not worried about it. I put it next to the other two just for comparison, so that's why it is in all pictures. The English writing ones I just got, maybe a week ago. They are the ones with the rimfire cartridge. They dont have serial No. anywhere on the body, the only thing on them is the barrel writing visible on the pics and one of them has the 554 on the drum. Both have some blueing left, they weren't chromed, it looks original. I can't guess what type of wood is on the handles, it looks to be dark hardwood.
I can post more pictures, but they are pretty much the same.
I can make my father check the barrel lenght, but thats about the only thing I dont have in my pics. that can be of any help.
No markings anywhere on the frames.

Turbinee · 04-10-2005, 07:41 PM

I know I'm making this hard, but really the revolvers themselfs dont give me much information. The calliber is 44 rimfire, I measured the chambers and they are 11.5 mm. for the one with the large locking bolt atop the frame and 11 mm. for the other.
I'm not sure what the "lanyard loop" is.
Thanks

Xracer · 04-10-2005, 08:07 PM

"I have the russian one identified (the one with the cirylic writing), so I'm not worried about it."

Yeah......but do you know which model of S&W Russian you have? There were 3 different models and each one has different $$$ values.

" but really the revolvers themselfs dont give me much information." Maybe not, but if you'll answer all of my questions, they might give me enough information to identify them.

Since I can't check them out personally, we're gonna have to play 20 questions to nail their identities down, so you'll have to have them on hand to answer the questions.

I'd suggest you get them all back from your father, take a nice clear side view full length picture of each.....and let's start all over again.

BTW, a lanyard loop is a loop or ring on the base of the grip.

Turbinee · 04-10-2005, 08:18 PM

Ok, I'll do that.
I'll have my father do nice clean pictures and list all markings for each gun as well as calliber and barrel lenght. I should have this done in a day or two and then I'll post a new posting with the same name in the same thread.
I figured I wasnt clear enough so I'll pick all the info you need.
I have another S&W with engravings, I'll post it too. This one unfortunately has exploded and has been repaired, so I'm sure its value is low, but is a nice wall peace.
Thank you so much Xracer, I hope we talk again in couple of days.

Xracer · 04-10-2005, 09:56 PM

OK, I'll be looking for your post, but let's do them one at a time. We can start off with CF-1 (the centerfire), and when we get that one identified and valued, then we'll do the other two, one at a time.

See ya later.......

04-10-2005, 07:51 AM	#2
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: 44 rimfire Smith&Wesson ModII, Turkey Hi Turbinee......welcome to TFF. Are you sure your guns are Turkish Models? The reason I ask is that the Model 3 American 1st Model, the Model 3 American 2nd Model, and some Russian Models were also made in .44 Henry Rimfire. If yours is a Turk, there were 5,461 made between 1879 and 1882 and made in their own serial range #1 thru 5,461. They were in .44 Henry Rimfire. They were stamped with the letters "P", "U", and "AFC" on various parts of the revolver. They should have 6.5" barrels, be blue with walnut grips and have a lanyard swivel on the butt. Turkish Model value: V.G. - $7,000 Good - $3,500 Fair - $1,750 This info came from the Standard Catalog of Firearms.

04-10-2005, 10:29 AM	#3
Turbinee Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6	Re: 44 rimfire Smith&Wesson ModII, Turkey Thanks for the response. I'm not 100% sure, but that's all the info I could find. I can't seem to find serial numbers on those two rimfire revolvers. You can see on the pic. the russian one has a serial No. on the barrel but not the other two. Some sources say that the inscribtion is in arabic, other that there are letters all over the revolvers. Attached Images

04-10-2005, 02:31 PM	#4
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: 44 rimfire Smith&Wesson ModII, Turkey OK.....let's approach this systematically. The last three pix you posted (patent dates, "Russian Model", and foreign writing)....are these all the same revolver? If so, that's a Russian Model...the writing is in the Cyrillic alphabet, which the Russians use. What caliber is this gun? What is the barrel length? What is the serial #? What are the other markings on it? Can you post a full length side view of this gun? Let's figure this one out for sure, then we'll put it aside and look at the other two.

04-10-2005, 05:28 PM	#5
Turbinee Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6	Re: 44 rimfire Smith&Wesson ModII, Turkey Thanks for taking this seriously. The third pic. I posted is of the two rimfire revolvers next to a russion one for comparison(the one with cirylic writing). The English writing revolvers are the one in question. The caliber is exacly 11 mm. on one and 11.5 mm. on the other. They are both 44 rimfire, but one is the original 44 and the other the russion version of 44 rimfire from what I know. Below is the pic of both English writing revolvers without serial No. ,one next to another, those are the revolvers I think were made for testing from the Turkish army. THe one with the big hold-down bolt for the spring that holds the drum in place has 554 engraved on the drum Attached Images

04-10-2005, 07:13 PM	#6
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: 44 rimfire Smith&Wesson ModII, Turkey WHOA! You're mixing up apples, oranges, and peaches. Let's do this one gun at a time! And please answer my questions. First.....am I correct in my assumption that you have 3 revolvers. One centerfire and two rimfires? If this is so, let's make sure of the identification of the centerfire revolver first. We'll call this gun CF-1. (Put the rimfires away....we'll get to them later) On CF-1, please post a clear side view of the full length of the revolver. And please answer all of the questions. 1.) Is it blued or nickle plated? 2.) What caliber is it? 3.) What is the barrel length? 4.) List all of the writing on the barrel.....exactly as it appears. 5.) What is the Serial #? (you can X out the last two digits, if you like) 6.) What type of grips does it have? 7.) Does it have a lanyard loop at the bottom of the grip? 8.) Is there any marking on the butt?

04-09-2005, 02:47 PM	#1
Turbinee Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6	44 rimfire Smith&Wesson ModII, Turkey Hi to you all, I have a question, I cant find the answer to, I'll post a pic. as well. I have two S&W 44 rimfire ModII made for the Turkish army. What I know is that on was made in 1000 pc. the other 7000 pc. Cant seem to find any info. on pricing or how many are there left. Maybe you can guide me to some links and other info. I've compered them to a regular centerfire Russian and they are close in frame and workings. Thanks Attached Images --> Last edited by Turbinee; 04-09-2005 at 02:53 PM.. Reason: image prbm

04-10-2005, 07:31 PM	#7
Turbinee Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6	Re: 44 rimfire Smith&Wesson ModII, Turkey LOL, I know I'm mixing it all up, but there is a little problem: see all my pictures are mixed, I took them like that. I have the revolvers at my father now so the only thing here are the photos. I have the russian one identified (the one with the cirylic writing), so I'm not worried about it. I put it next to the other two just for comparison, so that's why it is in all pictures. The English writing ones I just got, maybe a week ago. They are the ones with the rimfire cartridge. They dont have serial No. anywhere on the body, the only thing on them is the barrel writing visible on the pics and one of them has the 554 on the drum. Both have some blueing left, they weren't chromed, it looks original. I can't guess what type of wood is on the handles, it looks to be dark hardwood. I can post more pictures, but they are pretty much the same. I can make my father check the barrel lenght, but thats about the only thing I dont have in my pics. that can be of any help. No markings anywhere on the frames. Last edited by Turbinee; 04-10-2005 at 07:32 PM..

04-10-2005, 07:41 PM	#8
Turbinee Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6	Re: 44 rimfire Smith&Wesson ModII, Turkey I know I'm making this hard, but really the revolvers themselfs dont give me much information. The calliber is 44 rimfire, I measured the chambers and they are 11.5 mm. for the one with the large locking bolt atop the frame and 11 mm. for the other. I'm not sure what the "lanyard loop" is. Thanks

04-10-2005, 08:07 PM	#9
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: 44 rimfire Smith&Wesson ModII, Turkey "I have the russian one identified (the one with the cirylic writing), so I'm not worried about it." Yeah......but do you know which model of S&W Russian you have? There were 3 different models and each one has different $$$ values. " but really the revolvers themselfs dont give me much information." Maybe not, but if you'll answer all of my questions, they might give me enough information to identify them. Since I can't check them out personally, we're gonna have to play 20 questions to nail their identities down, so you'll have to have them on hand to answer the questions. I'd suggest you get them all back from your father, take a nice clear side view full length picture of each.....and let's start all over again. BTW, a lanyard loop is a loop or ring on the base of the grip.

04-10-2005, 08:18 PM	#10
Turbinee Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6	Re: 44 rimfire Smith&Wesson ModII, Turkey Ok, I'll do that. I'll have my father do nice clean pictures and list all markings for each gun as well as calliber and barrel lenght. I should have this done in a day or two and then I'll post a new posting with the same name in the same thread. I figured I wasnt clear enough so I'll pick all the info you need. I have another S&W with engravings, I'll post it too. This one unfortunately has exploded and has been repaired, so I'm sure its value is low, but is a nice wall peace. Thank you so much Xracer, I hope we talk again in couple of days.

04-10-2005, 09:56 PM	#11
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: 44 rimfire Smith&Wesson ModII, Turkey OK, I'll be looking for your post, but let's do them one at a time. We can start off with CF-1 (the centerfire), and when we get that one identified and valued, then we'll do the other two, one at a time. See ya later.......