machine gun license - The Firearms Forum

lslubecki · 04-11-2005, 10:27 PM

I went to knob creek this past weekend to see the semi annual machine gun shoot. AWESOME! I will be going back. My question is "How does one get an automatic weapon license? " Thanks for any help.

Steve Lubecki

Gunfyter · 04-12-2005, 11:14 AM

Here ya go

Class III Weapon Ownership Info

YES, chances are you can own a Class III weapon. We have heard all kinds of myths surrounding the ownership of these weapons, below is a list of some of the FAQ's we get asked.

Q. Do I have to have a license to own a Class III weapon ?

A. The ATF does NOT required you to have a "license" to own Class III weapons, there is however a $200.00 transfer tax to be paid on each Machinegun, Suppressor, Short Barrelled Rifle & Short Barrelled Shotgun & there is a $5.00 transfer tax on AOW's (Any other Weapons)

Q. Do I have to pay this tax annually ?

A. No, this is a one time tax. It will never have to be paid again unless you sell the weapon & transfer it to another individual.

Q. What are the requirements to own a Class III weapon ?

A. * You have to live in a state where Class III weapons are legal.
*You have to be a US citizen.
* At least 21 yoa.
* Never been convicted of a Felony or Domestic Violence.
* Never been disshonarbly discharged from the military.
* Never been adjuticated mentally defective.

Q. How long does it take to get my weapon after I have paid for it.

A. Once you have completed your Form 4 in duplicate & sent it to BATF NFA Branch you will be waiting approx. 3-4 months for the paperwork to be approved. Once it is approved ATF will send us back one of the approved Form 4's & we will call you to come pick up your paperwork & weapon. If you are purchasing a weapon from us & you live out of state you can add an additional 2-4 weeks for the weapon being transfered to your in state dealer.

Q. Are Class III weapon legal in my state?

A.Machineguns are ILLEGAL for individuals in DE, DC, HI, NY, WA
ONLY Class 3 dealers are allowed possession in CA, IL, IA, KS, MI, NJ, RI

Silencers are ILLEGAL for individuals in DE, DC, HI, IL, MS, MT, NY, NJ, RI
Class 3 dealers only are allowed possession in : CA, KS, MO, MN, IA

1952Sniper · 04-12-2005, 03:08 PM

You will also be fingerprinted as part of the background check, and you must have a passport photo set taken. They essentially put you in their file as a future possible criminal.

Another part of the application process is that you must get law enforcement certifications from your area. In other words, if your Sheriff or Chief of Police doesn't want you to have a machine gun, he can refuse to certify it. You can go over his head, but lotsa luck with that.

Getting a Class III certification is do-able, but you need to be ready to do a lot of justifying to certain people, and you need to be open to the government looking into your life. Once you've gotten the approval of your local authorities and Uncle Sam, you just need a LOT of money to afford a Class III weapon.

lslubecki · 04-12-2005, 03:26 PM

Thanks for all the info. I have already completed some of the requirements as I have a ccw license for Ohio, pic, prints and background ck with the atf. I also have a low explosive license approved by atfe for a high power rocketry hobby that requires this license for propellant storage.

Where do I get form 4? I feel I should complete the form first. If the sheriff or police chief wont allow it then I wont have put the dealer through any grief with a lost sale of a weapon. Thanks.

Steve Lubecki

JohnK3 · 04-13-2005, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lslubecki

I also have a low explosive license approved by atfe for a high power rocketry hobby that requires this license for propellant storage.

Steve Lubecki

LEUP?

[grin]

TRA #2499/L3

matty · 04-21-2005, 06:27 PM

could you go through getting the tax stamp and ect. and then purchase your weapon? i don't like the idea of paying for something and havine to wait 4-5 months before i can get it, if i am even approved.

matty · 04-21-2005, 06:29 PM

also, would you be able to shoot that at the local target range or would you have to go someplace special?

and do you have to carry this stamp with you whenever you take your weapon out?

1952Sniper · 04-22-2005, 03:13 PM

Quote:

I have already completed some of the requirements as I have a ccw license for Ohio, pic, prints and background ck with the atf.

Those won't count. When you apply for the Class III tax stamp, you'll have to resubmit everything. I think.

Quote:

Where do I get form 4? I feel I should complete the form first. If the sheriff or police chief wont allow it then I wont have put the dealer through any grief with a lost sale of a weapon. Thanks.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f53204.pdf
That's Form 4. As you can see, you can't fill this out if you don't know what model firearm you'll be purchasing. You pretty much have to trouble the dealer first.

Quote:

could you go through getting the tax stamp and ect. and then purchase your weapon? i don't like the idea of paying for something and havine to wait 4-5 months before i can get it, if i am even approved.

You have to get approved first. I would think that payment for the firearm before or after approval would be up to the dealer. Most would probably make you pay up front. Considering the long approval process, they risk losing the sale to someone else during that time, if you're not approved.

Quote:

also, would you be able to shoot that at the local target range or would you have to go someplace special?

That will be up to each range to decide. One range I shoot at has a special area for full-auto weapons. Another range I go to won't allow it at all.

Quote:

and do you have to carry this stamp with you whenever you take your weapon out?

Um yeah, that would be the smart thing to do.

offeror · 04-28-2005, 10:21 PM

Hopefully you can find a dealer who advertises himself as an NFA dealer, meaning he is already experienced with this kind of transaction. He will then be familiar with the process and you won't have to worry about "troubling" him because he should know the drill and be able to walk YOU through it.

Personally, I wouldn't prefer to go through my first NFA purchase with a dealer who was trying to go through it for the first time himself, though there may be gun lovers in small towns who have no other choice than to try to interest an unexperienced dealer in placing his order. It's awkward enough dealing with the new kitchen table dealer who knows less about buying/selling "regular" guns than I do.

lslubecki · 11-26-2007, 07:29 AM

What is the procedure to license/register an NFA short barreled rifle that was purchased incomplete? I dont have any of it yet but I will have to buy the gun parts first then the reciever separately. I assume I still need the tax stamp. Or do I? What about the seller since it would be an internet purchase all I have is a web name? Thanks.

Steve

lslubecki · 11-26-2007, 07:32 AM

Also the receiver is a stamped receiver so it wont have any numbers on it. It will also need to be completer to be considered a receiver. So would I still need to register it?

Steve

Alpo · 11-29-2007, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matty

could you go through getting the tax stamp and ect. and then purchase your weapon? i don't like the idea of paying for something and havine to wait 4-5 months before i can get it, if i am even approved.

The problem is that once the paperwork has been completed, you own the gun, and the previous owner cannot have it in his possesion.

Let's say that you want to buy my 12,000 dollar machinegun. I agree to let you wait to pay until the paper comes back. As soon as the paper comes back, it is your gun. The government says that I cannot possess it, or I am guilty of possessing an unregistered NFA item, which is worth 10 years AND a 250,000 dollar fine. The only one that can possess the gun is you, since the paper says it is your gun. So I have to hand it over, whether you pay me or not.

So, that's not going to happen. You are gonna pay me the 12K first, then the paperwork gets sent in. The last one I bought, since it was a private deal and did not go through a dealer (you do not have to go through a dealer if both you and the seller are in the same state) I added to the bill of sale a paragraph that said that if for any reason the government refused to appove the transfer, I got the entire purchase price back. On a previous purchase, I made payments. 500 bucks every two weeks. And even though the paperwork was completed within three days of my saying I would take it, and making the first payment, the dealer waited until it was completely paid off before sending the paper in.

Alpo · 11-29-2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lslubecki

What is the procedure to license/register an NFA short barreled rifle that was purchased incomplete? I dont have any of it yet but I will have to buy the gun parts first then the reciever separately. I assume I still need the tax stamp. Or do I? What about the seller since it would be an internet purchase all I have is a web name? Thanks.

Steve

If you are buying parts, and putting them together to make a "short barreled rifle", then you don't use a Form 4 (which is for "tranferring" an NFA item), but instead use a Form 1 (which is for "MAKEING a firearm". http://www.titleii.com/Forms.htm

Along with the Form 1 (of which you need to send two copies), you need to send two sets of fingerprints (on ATF fingerprint cards, not your local police department's cards) and two passport-type photographs, because you are making TWO originals. ATF keeps one original, and they send you back the other original. Weird. You also send a Certificate of Compliance. I send two, since I send two of everything else, but I don't know if two are required. So you send in your forms, and you send in your two hundred dollars, and you wait. They seem to have gotten better. I hear the turnaround is a matter of weeks now, instead of months.

If you have your parts kit, DO NOT BUY THE RECEIVER until you get your paperwork back. If you have the receiver, DO NOT BUY THE PARTS KIT until you get the paperwork back. Having the parts kit and the receiver, without having the paperwork means you have an UNREGISTERED NFA ITEM. Bad juju.

When you get your paperwork back, take it and make several copies. Then take the original and put it someplace secure. Your gunsafe, or maybe your safety deposit box at the bank. Carry one of the copies with you whenever you have the gun, not the original. If you lose or damage the copy, you can always make another copy. If you lose your original, you are screwed. Right back to having that unregistered NFA item. Yes, ATF has a copy, but they seem to lose them every now and then.

>Also the receiver is a stamped receiver so it wont have any numbers on it. It will also need to be completer to be considered a receiver. So would I still need to register it?<

If there are no serial numbers on the receiver, you will have to issue it numbers, so that the ATF will be able to prove that the SBR you have in your hand is, in fact, the SBR you have paper for. You will also have to mark it with your name and town, since you are the maker of the gun.

lslubecki · 11-29-2007, 02:15 PM

Great information. Exactly what I was looking for. The AMD-65 is a parts kit so I will get the numbers off of it and submit Form 1 in duplicate. The receiver is still flat so I think it isnt a receiver yet. I dont have it yet anyway. I thought an SRB would be an easy start to dealing with the ATF before moving up to a full auto something or silencer in the distant future. Thanks again for the info.

Steve

Pitty920 · 02-10-2010, 05:48 PM

I live in Wisconsin (one of the allowed states) so does that mean I dont have to get a license to get a class 3 firearm or silencer, or do i have to wait half a year to get a little trigger time!

Alpo · 02-10-2010, 08:51 PM

As it says in post #2, there is no "license to get a class 3 firearm or silencer". There is a tax. The tax is 200 dollars. The tax must be paid on any and every machinegun or silencer you get. If you get a machinegun or silencer without first paying the tax, you get the joy of a ten year vacation to Club Fed, and a quarter million dollar fine.

So, yes, you have to wait.

bcj1755 · 02-16-2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpo

If you are buying parts, and putting them together to make a "short barreled rifle", then you don't use a Form 4 (which is for "tranferring" an NFA item), but instead use a Form 1 (which is for "MAKEING a firearm". http://www.titleii.com/Forms.htm

Along with the Form 1 (of which you need to send two copies), you need to send two sets of fingerprints (on ATF fingerprint cards, not your local police department's cards) and two passport-type photographs, because you are making TWO originals. ATF keeps one original, and they send you back the other original. Weird. You also send a Certificate of Compliance. I send two, since I send two of everything else, but I don't know if two are required. So you send in your forms, and you send in your two hundred dollars, and you wait. They seem to have gotten better. I hear the turnaround is a matter of weeks now, instead of months.

If you have your parts kit, DO NOT BUY THE RECEIVER until you get your paperwork back. If you have the receiver, DO NOT BUY THE PARTS KIT until you get the paperwork back. Having the parts kit and the receiver, without having the paperwork means you have an UNREGISTERED NFA ITEM. Bad juju.

When you get your paperwork back, take it and make several copies. Then take the original and put it someplace secure. Your gunsafe, or maybe your safety deposit box at the bank. Carry one of the copies with you whenever you have the gun, not the original. If you lose or damage the copy, you can always make another copy. If you lose your original, you are screwed. Right back to having that unregistered NFA item. Yes, ATF has a copy, but they seem to lose them every now and then.

>Also the receiver is a stamped receiver so it wont have any numbers on it. It will also need to be completer to be considered a receiver. So would I still need to register it?<

If there are no serial numbers on the receiver, you will have to issue it numbers, so that the ATF will be able to prove that the SBR you have in your hand is, in fact, the SBR you have paper for. You will also have to mark it with your name and town, since you are the maker of the gun.

Alpo,

Would that procedure also apply if I wanted to manufacture a full-auto? For example, say I buy an AK receiver flat and a parts kit, but not the FCG. Could I send the paperwork and $200 to ATF, get the tax stamp back, they buy the full-auto FCG and assemble the rifle, stamping my own serial number and my name and hometown on it as the manufacturer?

CampingJosh · 02-16-2010, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcj1755

Alpo,

Would that procedure also apply if I wanted to manufacture a full-auto? For example, say I buy an AK receiver flat and a parts kit, but not the FCG. Could I send the paperwork and $200 to ATF, get the tax stamp back, they buy the full-auto FCG and assemble the rifle, stamping my own serial number and my name and hometown on it as the manufacturer?

No.

The only machine guns legal for individual ownership in the United States are those that were legally owned by an individual in the United States on some particular date (May something, maybe... I can't remember right now) in 1986. New ones CANNOT be legally manufactured for an individual.

bcj1755 · 02-16-2010, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

No.

The only machine guns legal for individual ownership in the United States are those that were legally owned by an individual in the United States on some particular date (May something, maybe... I can't remember right now) in 1986. New ones CANNOT be legally manufactured for an individual.

Ah ok, that's what I thought. Thanks.

REISINGMOD50 · 02-20-2010, 05:00 PM

[QUOTE=matty;146407]also, would you be able to shoot that at the local target range or would you have to go someplace special?

and do you have to carry this stamp with you whenever you take your weapon out?[/QUOTEO

Lots of ranges will not let you shoot a class 3 weapon. I quit an outdoor gun club that I belonged to because they would not let me shoot my subguns. I always have a photo copy of my permit that I keep with the guns. I keep the original in a safety deposit box. If you get a class 3 weapon, I would recommend keeping a copy of your permit with the gun. I had to show mine once to some cops that came up when I was shooting. It would have been a real hassle if I didn't have the copy with me.

zant · 02-27-2010, 08:14 PM

If you own a business,LLC,etc-you register to business-no CLEO,prints or pictures.As an officer of the business,you have control of the registered item.

04-11-2005, 10:27 PM	#1
lslubecki V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 81	machine gun license I went to knob creek this past weekend to see the semi annual machine gun shoot. AWESOME! I will be going back. My question is "How does one get an automatic weapon license? " Thanks for any help. Steve Lubecki -->

04-12-2005, 03:08 PM	#3
1952Sniper Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 5,138	Re: machine gun license You will also be fingerprinted as part of the background check, and you must have a passport photo set taken. They essentially put you in their file as a future possible criminal. Another part of the application process is that you must get law enforcement certifications from your area. In other words, if your Sheriff or Chief of Police doesn't want you to have a machine gun, he can refuse to certify it. You can go over his head, but lotsa luck with that. Getting a Class III certification is do-able, but you need to be ready to do a lot of justifying to certain people, and you need to be open to the government looking into your life. Once you've gotten the approval of your local authorities and Uncle Sam, you just need a LOT of money to afford a Class III weapon.

04-12-2005, 03:26 PM	#4
lslubecki V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 81	Re: machine gun license Thanks for all the info. I have already completed some of the requirements as I have a ccw license for Ohio, pic, prints and background ck with the atf. I also have a low explosive license approved by atfe for a high power rocketry hobby that requires this license for propellant storage. Where do I get form 4? I feel I should complete the form first. If the sheriff or police chief wont allow it then I wont have put the dealer through any grief with a lost sale of a weapon. Thanks. Steve Lubecki

04-21-2005, 06:27 PM	#6
matty V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 86	Re: machine gun license could you go through getting the tax stamp and ect. and then purchase your weapon? i don't like the idea of paying for something and havine to wait 4-5 months before i can get it, if i am even approved. __________________ "THIS IS MY RIFLE, THERE ARE MANY LIKE IT, BUT THIS ONE IS MINE..." "IF THEY RUN, THEY ARE VC. IF THEY DON'T RUN, THEY ARE WELL TRAINED VC..."

04-21-2005, 06:29 PM	#7
matty V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 86	Re: machine gun license also, would you be able to shoot that at the local target range or would you have to go someplace special? and do you have to carry this stamp with you whenever you take your weapon out? __________________ "THIS IS MY RIFLE, THERE ARE MANY LIKE IT, BUT THIS ONE IS MINE..." "IF THEY RUN, THEY ARE VC. IF THEY DON'T RUN, THEY ARE WELL TRAINED VC..."

04-12-2005, 11:14 AM	#2
Gunfyter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Western Maryland Posts: 1,956	Re: machine gun license Here ya go Class III Weapon Ownership Info YES, chances are you can own a Class III weapon. We have heard all kinds of myths surrounding the ownership of these weapons, below is a list of some of the FAQ's we get asked. Q. Do I have to have a license to own a Class III weapon ? A. The ATF does NOT required you to have a "license" to own Class III weapons, there is however a $200.00 transfer tax to be paid on each Machinegun, Suppressor, Short Barrelled Rifle & Short Barrelled Shotgun & there is a $5.00 transfer tax on AOW's (Any other Weapons) Q. Do I have to pay this tax annually ? A. No, this is a one time tax. It will never have to be paid again unless you sell the weapon & transfer it to another individual. Q. What are the requirements to own a Class III weapon ? A. * You have to live in a state where Class III weapons are legal. You have to be a US citizen. At least 21 yoa. * Never been convicted of a Felony or Domestic Violence. * Never been disshonarbly discharged from the military. * Never been adjuticated mentally defective. Q. How long does it take to get my weapon after I have paid for it. A. Once you have completed your Form 4 in duplicate & sent it to BATF NFA Branch you will be waiting approx. 3-4 months for the paperwork to be approved. Once it is approved ATF will send us back one of the approved Form 4's & we will call you to come pick up your paperwork & weapon. If you are purchasing a weapon from us & you live out of state you can add an additional 2-4 weeks for the weapon being transfered to your in state dealer. Q. Are Class III weapon legal in my state? A.Machineguns are ILLEGAL for individuals in DE, DC, HI, NY, WA ONLY Class 3 dealers are allowed possession in CA, IL, IA, KS, MI, NJ, RI Silencers are ILLEGAL for individuals in DE, DC, HI, IL, MS, MT, NY, NJ, RI Class 3 dealers only are allowed possession in : CA, KS, MO, MN, IA __________________ Anything worth shooting once, is worth shooting again. If it ain't broke, break it. Someone needs the work

04-28-2005, 10:21 PM	#9
offeror Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 586	Re: machine gun license Hopefully you can find a dealer who advertises himself as an NFA dealer, meaning he is already experienced with this kind of transaction. He will then be familiar with the process and you won't have to worry about "troubling" him because he should know the drill and be able to walk YOU through it. Personally, I wouldn't prefer to go through my first NFA purchase with a dealer who was trying to go through it for the first time himself, though there may be gun lovers in small towns who have no other choice than to try to interest an unexperienced dealer in placing his order. It's awkward enough dealing with the new kitchen table dealer who knows less about buying/selling "regular" guns than I do. __________________ The Second Amendment does not exist to protect the gun rights you like. It exists to protect the gun rights you hate.

11-26-2007, 07:29 AM	#10
lslubecki V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 81	Re: machine gun license What is the procedure to license/register an NFA short barreled rifle that was purchased incomplete? I dont have any of it yet but I will have to buy the gun parts first then the reciever separately. I assume I still need the tax stamp. Or do I? What about the seller since it would be an internet purchase all I have is a web name? Thanks. Steve

11-26-2007, 07:32 AM	#11
lslubecki V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 81	Re: machine gun license Also the receiver is a stamped receiver so it wont have any numbers on it. It will also need to be completer to be considered a receiver. So would I still need to register it? Steve

11-29-2007, 02:15 PM	#14
lslubecki V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 81	Re: machine gun license Great information. Exactly what I was looking for. The AMD-65 is a parts kit so I will get the numbers off of it and submit Form 1 in duplicate. The receiver is still flat so I think it isnt a receiver yet. I dont have it yet anyway. I thought an SRB would be an easy start to dealing with the ATF before moving up to a full auto something or silencer in the distant future. Thanks again for the info. Steve

02-10-2010, 05:48 PM	#15
Pitty920 Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1	Re: machine gun license I live in Wisconsin (one of the allowed states) so does that mean I dont have to get a license to get a class 3 firearm or silencer, or do i have to wait half a year to get a little trigger time!

02-10-2010, 08:51 PM	#16
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: machine gun license As it says in post #2, there is no "license to get a class 3 firearm or silencer". There is a tax. The tax is 200 dollars. The tax must be paid on any and every machinegun or silencer you get. If you get a machinegun or silencer without first paying the tax, you get the joy of a ten year vacation to Club Fed, and a quarter million dollar fine. So, yes, you have to wait. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

02-20-2010, 05:00 PM	#20
REISINGMOD50 Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: North Georgia Mountains Posts: 34	Re: machine gun license [QUOTE=matty;146407]also, would you be able to shoot that at the local target range or would you have to go someplace special? and do you have to carry this stamp with you whenever you take your weapon out?[/QUOTEO Lots of ranges will not let you shoot a class 3 weapon. I quit an outdoor gun club that I belonged to because they would not let me shoot my subguns. I always have a photo copy of my permit that I keep with the guns. I keep the original in a safety deposit box. If you get a class 3 weapon, I would recommend keeping a copy of your permit with the gun. I had to show mine once to some cops that came up when I was shooting. It would have been a real hassle if I didn't have the copy with me.

02-27-2010, 08:14 PM	#21
zant V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: S.Al Posts: 248	Re: machine gun license If you own a business,LLC,etc-you register to business-no CLEO,prints or pictures.As an officer of the business,you have control of the registered item.