H&R "Premier" 32 Double Action Revolver

[Thundar]

One more for the experts. This one is a Harrington & Richardson "Premier" Double Action Revolver. The top of the barrel is marked "HARRINGTON & RICHARDSON ARMS COMPANY, WORCESTER, MASS. U.S.A. PAT. APR.2.'95 APR.7.'96". The side of the barrel is marked "PREMIER 32 S. & W. CTGE". The serial number (1586xx) is stamped on the butt. The blueing is 95%. The grips are black plastic. The gun is in the original box. It should have an additional cylinder to change it to a 22 caliber that is missing. Was the barrel also supposed to be changed out when firing a 22 caliber? Value? Thank you.

[berto64]

Thunder, I'm no expert but I've owned several of these top-break H&R revolvers, some in Nickel Plate and a couple in blue.

This one does appear to be extra nice as far as the blueing goes. These pistols take the 32 S&W short cartridge which is getting very hard to find. As far as a 22 conversion, I have no idea. I have never heard of this for this pistol.

In the past in much worse condition I've paid as little as $40 for one but this one appears to be closer to about $80-$90.
Mind you I'm not an expert but I have delt in these H&R pistols in the past. Hopefully an expert will pop in shortly and give you the real skinny on it.

[inplanotx]

This pistol was made in either 22 LR 7 shot OR 32 S&W. Not both!

100% - $95
98% - $85
95% - $70
90% - $55

Hope this helps.

[Thundar]

Thank you. I couldn't belirve H&R would have designed a gun to shoot a 22 through a 32 barrel but I wasn't sure. Here is a scan of the box information plate.

[b.goforth]

the h&r premier was manufactured between 1895 and 1941. there were two models, first model 1895-1904 (designed for black powder cartridge pressures) and the second model 1905-1941 (designed for smokeless powder cartridges pressures. the best method to determine which model you have is the second model (1905-1941) will have the model name or caliber and or both marked on the left side of the barrel. the first model only has marking on the top of the barrel.

your revolver serial number 1586xx is a second model manufactured between 1905 and 1909. after 1909 the patent dates were eliminated from the top of barrel markings.

the calibers offered were 7 rounds 22 rimfire or 5 rounds 32 centerfire. the label on the inside of the box was generalized for both calibers but the end label of the box should have both the caliber and finish marked on it. the box if original would add about $50 to value.
bill

[shellvrolet]

Gents, I have one of these Premier revolvers taken apart right now to replace some parts. Does anyone know where there is a schematic or exploded view of how this thing goes back together. Thanks for any replies

[b.goforth]

try numrich arms at www.e-gunparts.com.

to any one who is interested please note the 22 rimfire caliber listed for this revolver. 22 short and long only the long rifle is NOT listed
bill

[pistolero57]

Originally Posted by shellvrolet

Gents, I have one of these Premier revolvers taken apart right now to replace some parts. Does anyone know where there is a schematic or exploded view of how this thing goes back together. Thanks for any replies

Did you have any luck finding the parts you needed? Which parts did you need?

I have an old model Premier torn down right now. I am in need of the trigger spring and the trigger.

[gmiller1903]

i just bought a 32 h&r at a yard sale in killeen tx. its a 32 top break and the serial number is 4521xx can anyone tell me when it was made. i only paid $20 im sure its worth it. thanks for any info you can give.

[b.goforth]

this 6 digit serial number indicates this is a second model premier. the information below may help determine just which variation this revolver is.

H&R PREMER SECOND MODEL SMALL FRAME TOP BREAK R.F. & C.F.
Smokeless Powder --------------------------------------------1905-1941
Small fame double action top break revolver with double top post barrel latch; calibers and cylinder capacity, 22 rimfire-7 rounds, 32 S&W, 5 rounds; automatic cylinder stop; standard finish Nickel with case harden hammer and barrel latch; standard barrel length 3 inches, with 2, 4, 5 and 6 inches available as optional;
HAS CALIBER MARKINGS ON LEFT SIDE OF BARREL WAS MANUFACTURED FOR SMOKELESS POWDER CARTRIDGE PRESSURES.
There has not been enough data gathered on serial number to try to come up with a serial number range for the different variations.
First Variation, model name & caliber marked on left side of barrel, patent dates 5-14-89, 4-2-95, 4-7-96--------------1905-Only
Second Variation, model name & caliber marked on left side of barrel, patent dates 4-2-95, 4-7-96-------------------------------------1906-1908
Third Variation, caliber only marked on left side of barrel, patent date 10-8-95-----------1909-1913
Fourth Variation, caliber only marked on left side of barrel, no patent date, state not spelled out in address (MASS)------------------1914-1915
Fifth Variation, caliber only marked on left side of barrel same as 4th except different font used in barrel markings--------------------1914-1915
Sixth Variation, caliber only marked on left side of barrel. State name in barrel marking spelled out (MASSACHUSETTS)----------1916-1924
Seventh Variation, new grip frame, there is no step down for the grip panels to fit into------------------1925-1942
After 1930 listed in catalogs as; PREMIER No. 30 .22 Rimfire 7 shot and PREMIER No. 35.32 S&W 5 shot
VALUE: 100%=$265 60%=$75 Add 10% premium for blue finish; 20% premium 4”, 5” or 6” barrel; 20% premium for 22 rimfire caliber; 10% premium for 7th variation

[richardluxford]

I have just been given...yes, there are kind people out there....a H & R .32 revolver. The serial number is 239414. On the top of the barrel it reads "Harrington & Richardson Arms Company, Worcester, Mass. USA. Pat Oct.8.1895". On the left side it reads "Premier 32 S&W.CTGE. Can anyone date this revolver for me?

Thanks

Richard

[b.goforth]

using the information i provided above this Premier is a second model 3rd variation dating between 1909 and 1913.

bill

[Old Gun Guy]

I have an H&R Premier small frame top break .32 S&W caliber. It is serial # 496935, which puts it in the second model, seventh variation. Unfortunately, this is when they changed the grip frame to where there is no step down for the grip panels to fit into.
My question is; does anyone know if any other model of H&R top-breaks used this same grip? I have been unable to locate the correct grip for this revolver so I'm beginning to think that there aren't too many of them out there.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Old Gun Guy

[oscarmayer]

have you checked www.vintagegungrips.com ?

[Old Gun Guy]

I got alot of assistance from Vintage Gun Grips. However, after looking through all of their H&R grips, they were unable to find the correct ones. I'm back to square one on this, and would appreciate hearing from anyone that may have this particular grip on hand. Here are some pics of what the back strap looks like (no stepdown for the grip to fit in), and measurements at different points.1- Disregard
2.- 1/4"
3.- 1"
4.- 2 3/8"
5.- 1/2"
6.- 1 1/8"

Thanks!
Old Gun Guy

[b.goforth]

according to numrich arms, they list these grips as parts number HRPW2 but they may no longer be available (old catalog).
bill

[Philrich01]

Hello all,

I recently acquired a seven shot Premier 22 rimfire second model 3rd variation dating between 1909 and 1913. It is in good condition, 3" nic plated with pearl grips. I have two questions, probably for you Bill.

1. A .22 long rifle fits into the cylinder and rotates fine (just barely). Is it ok? I know it will shoot shorts and longs.

2. This petite revolver, which came with a Rosco basket weave holster made in germany, has British proof marks on the barrel, frame, and on each cylinder flute. I believe these are Birmingham House Proof: Crown over "BP" and a crown over "BV". Was this revolver just taken to the UK or did H & R have a contract with England??

Thanks-Phil

[b.goforth]

the catalogs list the premier as being available in the 22 long rifle. however they have not been manufactured since 1942. do not attempt to fire the modern high velocity 22 long rifles in this revolver. stay with standard velocity loads.

H&R was very active in exporting to england and other countries overseas. the british proof marks make this one interesting in the fact they very rarely make it back over here.

bill

[2longhunt]

I have a H & R breakover 32 cal Double Action Revolver that does not say Premier. On the top of the 3-1/4" barrel it says Pat 1887. It has the checkered plastic grips and serial number 1424. It's nickle plate with a six shot cyl. I have searched the internet but can't find what model this actually is. I have the origianl box which shows a picture of a gun that is stamped with the patent on the side of the barrel of 1887 but the end of the box says "Patented May 14 and Aug. 6, 1889 3-1/4" inch Bbls." Over the top of the words "inch Bbls." it has the numbers "143" like someone stamp it on there by hand. It also says "H & R. 32 Automatic Double Action C.F., H & R Long or S. & W. Short Cartridge." Can anyone tell me what model I actually have? It's not in very good shape but I'd like to know a little about it please. Thanks.

[Jim Hauff]

You have a mid 1890's Auto Ejector. Bill Goforth will be interested in your box label and will provide all the info you need.
Does your box end look something like this?


Your gun should look something like this one, note the grip panel design and nickel plated trigger guard:

[b.goforth]

this is a second model H&R Auto-Ejecting. most likely a late second variation. H&R decided it was cheaper to make new box labels than it was to make up new stamping dies for the barrel markings that included the new patent dates.

a word about the 6shot 32 caliber, after the 32 S&W cartridge was introduced about 1878 there were several attempts made to improve it. one was the 32 H&R Long (aka the 32 merwin & hulbert). it had a slightly longer case (more powder) and the same bullet as the 32 S&W. these two cartridges were interchangable. please keep in mind the 32 S&W Long was not introduced until about 1898. in 1905 H&R lengthen their cylinders on all the large frame top breaks and solid frme revolvers and chambered them for the 32 S&W Long cartridge. all the small frame 5 shot revolvers (top break and solid frame remained chambered for the 32 S&W. the above is for 6 shot 32's only. more information on the 32 H&R will be found in the up comming H&R book in the chapter dealing with the American Double Action model.

AUTOMATIC EJECTING SECOND MODEL (NEW FRAME TARGET LOGO GRIPS) (BLACK POWDER) ---------------------------------1890-1904
New frame shape and new hard rubber grip panels with Target Logo, Auto-ejecting mechanism, Calibers 32 S&W, 6 shot cylinder capacity, 38 S&W caliber 5 shot cylinder capacity, nickel finish (blue optional), barrel lengths of 2½ (rare), 3¼ (standard), 4, 5 & 6 inches available. “IF THERE IS NO CALIBER MARKING ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE BARREL THEN IT WAS MANUFACTURED FOR BLACK POWDER” Top of barrel markings include company name and address and patent dates.
First Variation; one patent date OCT-4-87 only -------------1890-1892
Second Variation one patent date marked OCT-4-1887 (year marked in full) -------1890-1892*
Third Variation three patent dates, Oct-4-1887, May 14 & Aug-6-89 -----------1893-Only*
Fourth Variation three patent dates Oct-4-87, May-14 & Aug-6-89 (note 87 date des not have full year markings)--------1894-1896*
Fifth Variation five patent dates Oct-4-87, May 14 & Aug-6-89, April-2-95, April-7-96 ------1897-1904*
*Serial numbers found on the bottom side of the top strap will have letter codes with them.
VALUE 100%=$225 60%=$85 For all Auto-Ejecting 2nd Models; add 75% premium for 2½” barrel; add 25% for 4”, 5” & 6” barrels; add 15% for blue finish; add 10% for 1st , 2nd, 3rd & 4th variations with nickel trigger guard on nickel finish pieces

check the serial number on the bottom of the top strap, is there a letter code prefix.

jim is right i would like to see a picture of your revolver and the box.
bill

[2longhunt]

Originally Posted by b.goforth

this is a second model H&R Auto-Ejecting. most likely a late second variation. H&R decided it was cheaper to make new box labels than it was to make up new stamping dies for the barrel markings that included the new patent dates.

a word about the 6shot 32 caliber, after the 32 S&W cartridge was introduced about 1878 there were several attempts made to improve it. one was the 32 H&R Long (aka the 32 merwin & hulbert). it had a slightly longer case (more powder) and the same bullet as the 32 S&W. these two cartridges were interchangable. please keep in mind the 32 S&W Long was not introduced until about 1898. in 1905 H&R lengthen their cylinders on all the large frame top breaks and solid frme revolvers and chambered them for the 32 S&W Long cartridge. all the small frame 5 shot revolvers (top break and solid frame remained chambered for the 32 S&W. the above is for 6 shot 32's only. more information on the 32 H&R will be found in the up comming H&R book in the chapter dealing with the American Double Action model.

AUTOMATIC EJECTING SECOND MODEL (NEW FRAME TARGET LOGO GRIPS) (BLACK POWDER) ---------------------------------1890-1904
New frame shape and new hard rubber grip panels with Target Logo, Auto-ejecting mechanism, Calibers 32 S&W, 6 shot cylinder capacity, 38 S&W caliber 5 shot cylinder capacity, nickel finish (blue optional), barrel lengths of 2½ (rare), 3¼ (standard), 4, 5 & 6 inches available. “IF THERE IS NO CALIBER MARKING ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE BARREL THEN IT WAS MANUFACTURED FOR BLACK POWDER” Top of barrel markings include company name and address and patent dates.
First Variation; one patent date OCT-4-87 only -------------1890-1892
Second Variation one patent date marked OCT-4-1887 (year marked in full) -------1890-1892*
Third Variation three patent dates, Oct-4-1887, May 14 & Aug-6-89 -----------1893-Only*
Fourth Variation three patent dates Oct-4-87, May-14 & Aug-6-89 (note 87 date des not have full year markings)--------1894-1896*
Fifth Variation five patent dates Oct-4-87, May 14 & Aug-6-89, April-2-95, April-7-96 ------1897-1904*
*Serial numbers found on the bottom side of the top strap will have letter codes with them.
VALUE 100%=$225 60%=$85 For all Auto-Ejecting 2nd Models; add 75% premium for 2½” barrel; add 25% for 4”, 5” & 6” barrels; add 15% for blue finish; add 10% for 1st , 2nd, 3rd & 4th variations with nickel trigger guard on nickel finish pieces

check the serial number on the bottom of the top strap, is there a letter code prefix.

jim is right i would like to see a picture of your revolver and the box.
bill

Thank you Jim and Bill for taking the time to post to my questions. My gun does look like a second model auto eject second variation that you mentioned Bill. I will try to post some pics or at least send them to you guys so you can post them for me. I'll try and get that done this afternoon. You'll see the serial number does have a prefex letter before the 1424. It looks like a "Z" but more like the number "7". The end of the box does look like what Jim's picture shows but only says Automatic Double Action and it does list the barrel as a 3-1/4". The pictures will show you better. The action does not work too well, it will only cock with some effort. Some times the DA works and sometimes it doesn't. The gun has a lot a wear to it. I would say it would be quality wise about 60%. Can I get either of your emails in case I have problems posting the pictures? Thanks a lot.

Mark

[b.goforth]

my email is goforth2@peoplepc.com

bill

[Jim Hauff]

Here's four of the pics that Mark e-mailed. Others to follow:

[Jim Hauff]

And here's a couple more of Mark's pics. This is a good series to see first hand some of the features and locations of s/n as Bill notes in his descriptions.