Definition of "sawed off shotgun" - Page 2 - The Firearms Forum

kfb2b · 03-12-2007, 01:43 PM

Here is something that you may want be well aware of. In the 70's, theer was a gunsmith local to this area that would take old pump guns and cut them to 18". did this for years, marking the guns with his mark, then sold the shop off and died. Flash forward 15 years or so. The buyer is doing the same thing, and ATF shows up to arrest him for cutting shotguns under legal length!!! he shows them the "measuring stick", a rod 18 inches long. Drop it down the barrel, mark the spot and cut right? WRONG!!!!! SOME of the time it works, but others, the barrel is just a hair under 18", and that is hair enough for trouble!

So make it longer, just in case!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

charagrin · 03-21-2007, 06:48 PM

3 inch shotgun barrel???

Could you imagine the recoil?
?

Mosin_Nagant_Fan · 03-21-2007, 08:34 PM

3"? Where do you see that?

A guy I know who works for a police devision in Prattville says that it's best to be .5" to long then 1/32" off.

Luke · 03-21-2007, 08:37 PM

i was under the impression that a "sawn off shot gun" was any type of shot gun, with a portion of the barrel sawn off with a saw of some sort, so its more easy to transport and the pellets disperse quicker.
Luke

magusjinx · 04-14-2008, 12:02 PM

I did it the safe way ... I put on the pistol grip first then measured my 26 1/2 inches LOA and cut the barrel to match ... That way I made sure the barrel was legal ...

bluesea112 · 05-19-2008, 12:00 PM

Luke, the term "sawed off" shotgun generally means that the barrel is too short, or the overall length is too short. You could have a factory 20 inch barrel on a shotgun but saw off the stock behind the trigger gaurd and make it a "sawed off" shotgun.
It is NOT illegal to saw off your barrel. As long as the barrel is not cut shorter than 18", then you are perfectly legal.
.410 shotguns are the exception to this rule. Since a .410 is a caliber and NOT a gauge, it is technically NOT a shotgun. This is the reason it is perfectly legal to manufacture, purchase, and use a .410 handgun. A buddy of mine has a double barrel .410 handgun that is only 6 1/2" long. That thing is sweet. If you load that thing with buckshot, you are standing behind some incredible stopping power!

bluesea112 · 05-19-2008, 12:08 PM

As a follow up to my last post, I wonder why nobody has manufactured a 1.00" caliber handgun that holds 1" shells w/ pellets instead of cartridges with bullets? As long as it is labeled as a 1 inch caliber, and not a "gauge", wouldn't it be legal to make and own?

JohnK3 · 05-19-2008, 01:49 PM

Mainly, because you're operating on a faulty assumption.

.410 caliber handguns are not legal because of their designation. They are legal because they are RIFLED rather than being smoothbore. If you were to ream out the rifling on a Taurus Judge, you would have an illegally manufacutered short-barreled shotgun.

Also note carefully that those .410 handguns are sold as being able to shoot .45 Long Colt cartridges, which is their main designation as a handgun. The fact that the chambers are cut large enough to also accommodate .410 shotshells is a secondary characteristic.

bluesea112 · 05-19-2008, 02:25 PM

Thank you for he clarification Johnk3. That makes perfect sense.

stash247 · 05-20-2008, 11:16 PM

John K offers wise counsel; cut what was originnally a .410 smoothbore, to less than 18", and you arein the 'ten years, free rent' district, and, if convicted, can never own a firearm again!
Don't screw with the rules, or attempt to 'sharp' on them; the price is very high!

bluesea112 · 05-21-2008, 09:10 AM

If the only requirement is for a barrel to be rifled, why hasn't a manufacturer offered a rifled barrel handgun in .700 caliber (~12 gauge)? They could change the label on boxes of 12 gauge slugs to read ".700 revolver".
Hmmm, what a coinsidence....12 gauge slugs just happen to fit .700 revolvers....and .700 revolver just happens to fit 12 gauge shotguns.
Cartridge manufacturers stand to make some easy money because they could charge 4 times as much for ".700 revolver". Inexperienced shooters would buy it all day long and never know they were shooting 12 gauge slugs with pretty new label.

Bill DeShivs · 05-22-2008, 02:13 AM

Because handguns and rifles have to be under .5 inch bore diameter. Rifled conventional shotguns are permitted.

bluesea112 · 05-22-2008, 09:51 AM

Oh.

Guess I wasn't the first to have this idea.

polishshooter · 05-23-2008, 10:39 PM

Yeah, when I shortened my inherited '97 Cyl bore to get rid of the polychoke I specifically had the 'smith shorten it to 18 1/2" just in case I ran into an ATF agent with a "short stick."

ANY smoothbore, save muzzleloaders (and I wouldn't mess with them there either, they are probably as unintelligent with them as well, just like "suppressed" air rifles.....

), it's no LESS than 18" barrel AND no LESS than 26" overall....

stash247 · 05-26-2008, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polishshooter

Yeah, when I shortened my inherited '97 Cyl bore to get rid of the polychoke I specifically had the 'smith shorten it to 18 1/2" just in case I ran into an ATF agent with a "short stick."

ANY smoothbore, save muzzleloaders (and I wouldn't mess with them there either, they are probably as unintelligent with them as well, just like "suppressed" air rifles.....

), it's no LESS than 18" barrel AND no LESS than 26" overall....

Polish, they all got 'short sticks' otherwise they'd git a real job!
I use a Starrett steel scale, and cut 18 1/4", breech face to muzzle.

magusjinx · 05-27-2008, 07:48 PM

If I remember right a 28 gauge is around that magick .5 caliber isn't it?

03-12-2007, 01:43 PM	#26
kfb2b V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 56	Re: Definition of "sawed off shotgun" Here is something that you may want be well aware of. In the 70's, theer was a gunsmith local to this area that would take old pump guns and cut them to 18". did this for years, marking the guns with his mark, then sold the shop off and died. Flash forward 15 years or so. The buyer is doing the same thing, and ATF shows up to arrest him for cutting shotguns under legal length!!! he shows them the "measuring stick", a rod 18 inches long. Drop it down the barrel, mark the spot and cut right? WRONG!!!!! SOME of the time it works, but others, the barrel is just a hair under 18", and that is hair enough for trouble! So make it longer, just in case!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

03-21-2007, 06:48 PM	#27
charagrin Former Guest Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 451	Re: Definition of "sawed off shotgun" 3 inch shotgun barrel??? Could you imagine the recoil? ?

03-21-2007, 08:34 PM	#28
Mosin_Nagant_Fan Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montgomery, AL Posts: 1,832	Re: Definition of "sawed off shotgun" 3"? Where do you see that? A guy I know who works for a police devision in Prattville says that it's best to be .5" to long then 1/32" off. __________________ Long Gun Collection: M38 Mosin-Nagant Carbine Russian 1950 SKS Winchester 1300 20Ga Western Field Single-Shot 16Ga Sears Ranger .22S-L-LR Bolt-Action Rifle Marlin 795 Semi-Auto (Brother's) Handgun Collection: Springfield Armory XD9 Service

03-21-2007, 08:37 PM	#29
Luke V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 105	Re: Definition of "sawed off shotgun" i was under the impression that a "sawn off shot gun" was any type of shot gun, with a portion of the barrel sawn off with a saw of some sort, so its more easy to transport and the pellets disperse quicker. Luke

04-14-2008, 12:02 PM	#30
magusjinx V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 70	Re: Definition of "sawed off shotgun" I did it the safe way ... I put on the pistol grip first then measured my 26 1/2 inches LOA and cut the barrel to match ... That way I made sure the barrel was legal ... __________________ "I have found a certain type calls himself a Liberal...Now I always thought I was a Liberal. I came up terribly surprised one time when I found out that I was a Right-Wing Conservative Extremist, when I listened to everybody's point of view that I ever met, and then decided how I should feel. But this so-called new Liberal group, Jesus, they never listen to your point of view..." - Marion Robert Morrison

05-19-2008, 12:00 PM	#31
bluesea112 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: West, TX Contributor Posts: 1,257	Re: Definition of "sawed off shotgun" Luke, the term "sawed off" shotgun generally means that the barrel is too short, or the overall length is too short. You could have a factory 20 inch barrel on a shotgun but saw off the stock behind the trigger gaurd and make it a "sawed off" shotgun. It is NOT illegal to saw off your barrel. As long as the barrel is not cut shorter than 18", then you are perfectly legal. .410 shotguns are the exception to this rule. Since a .410 is a caliber and NOT a gauge, it is technically NOT a shotgun. This is the reason it is perfectly legal to manufacture, purchase, and use a .410 handgun. A buddy of mine has a double barrel .410 handgun that is only 6 1/2" long. That thing is sweet. If you load that thing with buckshot, you are standing behind some incredible stopping power! Last edited by bluesea112; 05-19-2008 at 12:02 PM..

05-19-2008, 12:08 PM	#32
bluesea112 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: West, TX Contributor Posts: 1,257	Re: Definition of "sawed off shotgun" As a follow up to my last post, I wonder why nobody has manufactured a 1.00" caliber handgun that holds 1" shells w/ pellets instead of cartridges with bullets? As long as it is labeled as a 1 inch caliber, and not a "gauge", wouldn't it be legal to make and own?

05-19-2008, 01:49 PM	#33
JohnK3 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,636	Re: Definition of "sawed off shotgun" Mainly, because you're operating on a faulty assumption. .410 caliber handguns are not legal because of their designation. They are legal because they are RIFLED rather than being smoothbore. If you were to ream out the rifling on a Taurus Judge, you would have an illegally manufacutered short-barreled shotgun. Also note carefully that those .410 handguns are sold as being able to shoot .45 Long Colt cartridges, which is their main designation as a handgun. The fact that the chambers are cut large enough to also accommodate .410 shotshells is a secondary characteristic. Last edited by JohnK3; 05-19-2008 at 01:51 PM..

05-19-2008, 02:25 PM	#34
bluesea112 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: West, TX Contributor Posts: 1,257	Re: Definition of "sawed off shotgun" Thank you for he clarification Johnk3. That makes perfect sense.

05-20-2008, 11:16 PM	#35
stash247 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Central Texas Posts: 2,815	Re: Definition of "sawed off shotgun" John K offers wise counsel; cut what was originnally a .410 smoothbore, to less than 18", and you arein the 'ten years, free rent' district, and, if convicted, can never own a firearm again! Don't screw with the rules, or attempt to 'sharp' on them; the price is very high! __________________ Don't start no s**t and there won't be none, Terry

05-21-2008, 09:10 AM	#36
bluesea112 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: West, TX Contributor Posts: 1,257	Re: Definition of "sawed off shotgun" If the only requirement is for a barrel to be rifled, why hasn't a manufacturer offered a rifled barrel handgun in .700 caliber (~12 gauge)? They could change the label on boxes of 12 gauge slugs to read ".700 revolver". Hmmm, what a coinsidence....12 gauge slugs just happen to fit .700 revolvers....and .700 revolver just happens to fit 12 gauge shotguns. Cartridge manufacturers stand to make some easy money because they could charge 4 times as much for ".700 revolver". Inexperienced shooters would buy it all day long and never know they were shooting 12 gauge slugs with pretty new label.

05-22-2008, 02:13 AM	#37
Bill DeShivs Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Contributor Posts: 1,470	Re: Definition of "sawed off shotgun" Because handguns and rifles have to be under .5 inch bore diameter. Rifled conventional shotguns are permitted. __________________ Bill DeShivs www.billdeshivs.com

05-22-2008, 09:51 AM	#38
bluesea112 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: West, TX Contributor Posts: 1,257	Re: Definition of "sawed off shotgun" Oh. Guess I wasn't the first to have this idea.

05-23-2008, 10:39 PM	#39
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,860	Re: Definition of "sawed off shotgun" Yeah, when I shortened my inherited '97 Cyl bore to get rid of the polychoke I specifically had the 'smith shorten it to 18 1/2" just in case I ran into an ATF agent with a "short stick." ANY smoothbore, save muzzleloaders (and I wouldn't mess with them there either, they are probably as unintelligent with them as well, just like "suppressed" air rifles.....), it's no LESS than 18" barrel AND no LESS than 26" overall.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

05-27-2008, 07:48 PM	#41
magusjinx V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 70	Re: Definition of "sawed off shotgun" If I remember right a 28 gauge is around that magick .5 caliber isn't it? __________________ "I have found a certain type calls himself a Liberal...Now I always thought I was a Liberal. I came up terribly surprised one time when I found out that I was a Right-Wing Conservative Extremist, when I listened to everybody's point of view that I ever met, and then decided how I should feel. But this so-called new Liberal group, Jesus, they never listen to your point of view..." - Marion Robert Morrison