Myths of WWII - The Firearms Forum

polishshooter · 01-15-2006, 10:19 PM

OK guys, ONE of these is a "myth," all the rest are true! Can you pick it?

Pistolenschutze · 01-16-2006, 12:06 AM

Well, I KNOW 2 and 3 are true. So . . . I voted for No. 4 on the theory that it's quite possible the Brits landed Spits on one of our carriers in the Pacific. As for the gold braid, that does seem a bit far-fetched. Even if it is true that supplying gold braid was a priority, it would not have interfered with other needs supplied to the Russians on the same ships.

Xracer · 01-16-2006, 08:50 AM

I believe Spits may have flown off U.S. Carriers on Operation Torch, but the Wasp served in the Pacific in WWII, so I really doubt that she launched any Spits.......and, of course, Spits were unable land on any U.S. Carriers.

Marlin · 01-16-2006, 10:27 AM

I would agree with Racer on this one.

Pistolenschutze · 01-16-2006, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xracer

I believe Spits may have flown off U.S. Carriers on Operation Torch, but the Wasp served in the Pacific in WWII, so I really doubt that she launched any Spits.......and, of course, Spits were unable land on any U.S. Carriers.

Hmmm, your reasoning seems sound, x. I don't think I've ever read of Spits being equipped with landing hooks for carrier landings, and the Wasp was indeed a Pacific fleet carrier. Maybe the Poles didn't charge German tanks with horse cavalry then, though I do know the Abyssinians did against the Italians.

polishshooter · 01-16-2006, 07:40 PM

OK. a hint, BEFORE the Wasp went to the pacific, she resupplied Malta several times, once launching a squadron of Spitfires to reinforce "Faith, Hope, and Charity."

I will give you extra credit if you can tell me what or who "Faith, Hope, and Charity" were.....

Marlin · 01-16-2006, 09:54 PM

Gloster Gladiators were the last of the "hero" bi-planes, off Malta and were part of the Hal Far Fighter Fleet. Heroics occured after the sinking of HMS Glorious. Tail numbers N5520, N5531 and N5519.

That may not be antirely accurate as I am typing from a very foggy memory.....

polishshooter · 01-16-2006, 10:20 PM

Ok, Marlin gets the extra credit...

Isn't it amazing how long those three LASTED against the best of the Regia whatever, with a few luftwaffe 109s and 110s from Pantelleria thrown against them too?

And that leads to MORE trivia...What happened to the Glorious, and why was it THERE when it happened...

Marlin · 01-17-2006, 08:42 AM

HMS Glorious was taking part, as an escort for one of the two troop convoys, Group II if memory serves me, in the evacuation from Norway of all British and other Allied personnel in early June 1940. At some point the Captain of Glorious asked to be allowed to sail alone for Scapa, due to his being hell bent for election to court marshall his Air Commander.

She sailed on alone with two destroyers for protective cover and at some point came under attack by two German battlecruisers, Gneisenau and Scharnhorst. In the ensuing battle all three of the British ships were sunk.

The permission granted by Admiralty to sail on alone never should have been granted.....

17thfabn · 01-17-2006, 03:22 PM

He said spitfires "flew" from the decks of the USS Wasp. Many times land based fighters took off from U.S. carriers, while being delivered to a forward base. They did not have to return. I know this was done with U.S. fighters, so I can see the Wasp delivering Spitfires that "flew" from her one time.

The picture of Polish lancers attacking German armor is myth I believe. The Polish lancers were caught out in the open by the German armor, and a photographer snapped the picture which was mislabled for propaganda purposes.

BTW the Russians made very good use of horse cavalry in WW II. They would infiltrate behind German lines and attack rear area units. Indirectly they took many german tanks out of action by destroying their fuel, and support units. Tanks especialy German ones in WW II need constant care. Destroying their support units was as effective as destroying them more directly.

Pistolenschutze · 01-17-2006, 04:44 PM

Many today don't realize that horses were used far more during WWII than one might think. The Germans used them extensively for transport of food and ammo, especially during the early stages of the war.

Pistolenschutze · 01-17-2006, 04:46 PM

OK, here's another trivia on battleships in WWII for ya Polish:

What was the only U.S. submarine to sink a Japanese battleship in WWII, and which battleship did she sink?

polishshooter · 01-17-2006, 08:07 PM

WELL, the Shinano was a CONVERTED yamato class BB, does she count? (even though she was a CV at the time she was sunk?)

FINE job on the Glorious, marlin! DO you remember what he wanted to courtmartial the AC for? I can't remember, but I DO remember it was for something relatively trivial for a time of war, and demonstrated that some Admirals of the Royal navy at THEIR start were still were in the "peacetime" mindset just like many of ours were shortly after Dec 1941...and also, did he even have PERMISSION from the admiralty. or did he just go off on his own?

But the best part of the fight was the "little" DD HMS Glowworm, making high speed attacks again and again on the German gun line and laying smoke all by herself, on the order of the DDs and DEs in the Taffy fight off Samar in Oct 44...just to try and draw them off the Glorious...until she too bought it...

And 17th got it! The Polish Cavalry charging Panzers turned out to be a product of German Propaganda, but not only did I read it when I was young, I was TAUGHT that in high school, and knowing how stubborn Polaks ARE, found it easy to BELIEVE it. In fact, I was actually a liitle disappointed to find out it WASN'T true, I actually could envision it and took pride in it as a kid...

Gold Braid actually WAS high on the list the Russians asked for in Lend Lease supplies...kinda like the Brits listing TEA as a "strategic material"...

But I'm still thinking on the BB one, HHmmm... CRAP. I KNOW this, or else I SHOULD! What actually sunk Fuso off Savo? Hmmmm...

Marlin · 01-17-2006, 09:43 PM

I believe the straw that broke the camel's back was when the Captain ordered the AC to launch several "Swordfish" in a situation that the AC felt was way beyond reasonable and a certain death warrant for his fliers and the AC refused to follow that order.

I seem to recall that these two never got on very well and it seems the Captain was just waiting for an excuse to get rid of the AC. It appears to be a petty difference in the proper way to utilize the men and equipment.

Pistolenschutze · 01-17-2006, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polishshooter

But I'm still thinking on the BB one, HHmmm... CRAP. I KNOW this, or else I SHOULD! What actually sunk Fuso off Savo? Hmmmm...

A good guess on the Shinano, Polish, but as you say, when Shinano was sunk she had been reconfigured as a carrier though she was originally laid down as a sister ship to the Yamato-class BBs.

Polish, the ship in question was HIJMS Kongo, sunk on 21 November 1944, in the Formosa Strait by three torpedoes from the American submarine U.S.S. Sealion.

Interestingly, Kongo was actually built by the British for the Japanese, laid down in 1911 and delivered to Japan in 1913. Originally, she was built as a battlecruiser with 14" guns, but during the 1930s, after Japan withdrew from the Washington 5:5:3 naval treaty, she was rebuilt, given heavier armor, better engines, torpedo bulges and reclassifed as a "fast battleship." She served mostly with Japanese carriers during the war. She was the only battleship sunk by American submarines during WWII.

polishshooter · 01-17-2006, 11:02 PM

Marlin, It PROBABLY had a lot to do with the fact in the RN, Air Officers did NOT get commands, so by definition, the Captain was NOT an "aviator," and probably didn't even understand airplanes! In fact, as a LINE officer, he probably got flack from his peers, because if he was GOOD, he would probably have been given command of a "real" combat ship, a BB, BC, or even a CRUISER, and not a "carrier..." A recipe for disaster. I also read there was animosity many times between them, "line" officers looked down their nose at aviators as "not really" naval officers, but resented that they got more pay for flying, and vice versa, aviators were frustrated they couldn't advance in rank or to command other than aircraft, dead end career...

Not like the USN, to command a CARRIER, you HAD to be an "aviator..." and "aviators" could command other ships BESIDES carriers too...so no drawback to being one!

Pistolenschutze · 01-17-2006, 11:22 PM

Marlin, ever notice how Polish always likes to add something at the end of his response to keep the argument going? One might say that he likes to take the, er, a, "Pole" position.

OK, another submarine trivia question: What American submarine acquired the name of "Submarie Killer" and is credited with the destruction of three Japanese subs on a single war patrol?

JohnK3 · 01-18-2006, 01:26 AM

USS Batfish (SS310)

http://www.ussbatfish.com/

Pistolenschutze · 01-18-2006, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnK3

USS Batfish (SS310)

http://www.ussbatfish.com/

You are quite correct, John.

Xracer · 01-18-2006, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polishshooter

Not like the USN, to command a CARRIER, you HAD to be an "aviator..." and "aviators" could command other ships BESIDES carriers too...so no drawback to being one!

Hmmmmm.....I seem to remember that Ray Spruance, a "blackshoe", commanded a whole Carrier Task Force at Midway.

(And yeah, I know all about Halsey's "hives" and the last minute change of command.....bit thank God it was Spruance who was On Scene Commander and not "Fill 'em up" Fletcher in command at Midway.)

Marlin · 01-18-2006, 10:18 AM

I believe that a "black shoe" can, if he is good enough and possibly knows someone, can command a carrier in today's Navy.

I had a good friend who was being groomed for just such an assignment when the Navy sent him to both Air Command & Staff and Air War College at Maxwell AFB. Unfortunately when serving as an XO on a carrier he was killed in an automobile accident, never making it all the way.

Pistolenschutze · 01-18-2006, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xracer

And yeah, I know all about Halsey's "hives" and the last minute change of command.....bit thank God it was Spruance who was On Scene Commander and not "Fill 'em up" Fletcher in command at Midway.

I would go even further with that thought, X. I would argue that it is well Halsey had hives at Midway and Spruance was given command instead. Don't get me wrong, I admire Halsey, he was a great leader and we owe him much, but Midway called for the qualities of a Spruance: The willingness to take risks, but carefully calculated ones, and most of all, the sense to know when it was time to quit. I've often wondered whether, had Halsey been in command, he might have taken the risk of pursuing the retreating Japanese fleet after the great victory at Midway, and quite possibly, have run into Yamamoto's battleship force for his trouble. At that stage of the war, it would have been utterly disastrous had we lost the two remaining carriers of the American task group, Enterprise and Hornet. Halsey was too much the gambler; Spruance was also daring, but in a more reasoned way, I think, which is precisely what was needed at Midway.

polishshooter · 01-20-2006, 09:09 PM

Spruance never commanded "A" carrier in his carreer, but I never said a non-aviator could not command a FLEET that included carriers (Kinkaid also commanded CVEs as part of his battle fleet in the Aleutians, and later)....and Nimitz caught a HELLUVA lot of flack from above and below for naming him and not another "aviator..", but Nimitz was FIERCELY loyal to subordinates especially those that had served on his staff in high positions, and if you think about it, Nimitz probably had a BETTER idea how Spruance thought than Halsey from bewing around him so much at Pearl...so much so I REALLY wonder if the "hives" excuse was REALLY the reason or made up for "public consumption..." after all, you do NOT relieve "Heros" especially at a time the public was so hungry for them...an Halsey was about the ONLY USN Admiral "Joe Lunchbox" could NAME in early 42....can you name me ANYBODY, famous or even friends and relatives, "hospitalized for hives???" I can't.

But then again Halsey WAS always on the edge, and did by some accounts suffer a "nervous breakdown" during Leyte after "The World Wonders..."

And X? The more I think about your point for that "longest shot by a BB" as being pretty short if it was 26000 yds, I think your are right! While Dunnigan and Nofi are GREAT with their facts, that HAS to be either a typo ir a flat out mistake. Salt Lake City was trading HITS with Nachi and Maya at 24000 at speed at Komandorski Islands, so a measly more 2000 shouldn't have been too hard for a BB...I wonder if it should have read "36000(?)" I checked again, it does say "more than 26000."

SO I wonder if it was a typo, or a flat out mistake? That's why history is an ART not a science, "dueling sources" is more common than you think, and many "facts" we learned in textbooks in school especially, but also LOTS of "histories" and "I was theres..." can be "wrong" too...(Unless you are SLA Marshall, then the "facts" MAY have been made up in a bar in the rear after a few stiff drinks...

)

Pistolenschutze · 01-21-2006, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polishshooter

But then again Halsey WAS always on the edge, and did by some accounts suffer a "nervous breakdown" during Leyte after "The World Wonders..."

Yeah, and almost got the whole damn fleet sunk in a hurricane on the way home too! Many argued at the time that Halsey should have been court marshalled for that misjudgment, as well as for the bad call he made at Leyte itself. Halsey took all four battle groups and went chasing the Northern Force, leaving the invasion beaches almost uncovered. Had it not been for unbelievable courage of Taffy 3, thousands would have died in the transport ships, and the invasion might well have failed.

swiftman · 03-23-2006, 09:45 PM

I will have to get some books out but I believe the Wasp or Hornet was in the atlantic when Peal Harbor was bombed. There were some that spent some time in both oceans. Just glad none were at Pearl on 7 7 41 because we did not have any to waste sitting in harbor as a torpedo target at that time.

View Poll Results: Which of these did NOT happen in WWII...
Spitfires flew from the decks of the USS Wasp.	39	28.89%
Polish Cavalry charged time after time against German tanks in 1939, getting mowed down by MGs.	20	14.81%
Many Non-German foreigners, slavs, Russians, Arabs, and some gypsies and Jews served in the SS.	32	23.70%
One of the top priority item for US Lend Lease to Russia was gold braid for General's uniforms.	44	32.59%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

01-15-2006, 10:19 PM	#1
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,860	Myths of WWII OK guys, ONE of these is a "myth," all the rest are true! Can you pick it? __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. -->

01-16-2006, 12:06 AM	#2
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Re: Myths of WWII Well, I KNOW 2 and 3 are true. So . . . I voted for No. 4 on the theory that it's quite possible the Brits landed Spits on one of our carriers in the Pacific. As for the gold braid, that does seem a bit far-fetched. Even if it is true that supplying gold braid was a priority, it would not have interfered with other needs supplied to the Russians on the same ships. __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)

01-16-2006, 08:50 AM	#3
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: Myths of WWII I believe Spits may have flown off U.S. Carriers on Operation Torch, but the Wasp served in the Pacific in WWII, so I really doubt that she launched any Spits.......and, of course, Spits were unable land on any U.S. Carriers.

01-16-2006, 10:27 AM	#4
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,853	Re: Myths of WWII I would agree with Racer on this one. __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

01-16-2006, 07:40 PM	#6
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,860	Re: Myths of WWII OK. a hint, BEFORE the Wasp went to the pacific, she resupplied Malta several times, once launching a squadron of Spitfires to reinforce "Faith, Hope, and Charity." I will give you extra credit if you can tell me what or who "Faith, Hope, and Charity" were..... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

01-16-2006, 09:54 PM	#7
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,853	Re: Myths of WWII Gloster Gladiators were the last of the "hero" bi-planes, off Malta and were part of the Hal Far Fighter Fleet. Heroics occured after the sinking of HMS Glorious. Tail numbers N5520, N5531 and N5519. That may not be antirely accurate as I am typing from a very foggy memory..... __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

01-16-2006, 10:20 PM	#8
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,860	Re: Myths of WWII Ok, Marlin gets the extra credit... Isn't it amazing how long those three LASTED against the best of the Regia whatever, with a few luftwaffe 109s and 110s from Pantelleria thrown against them too? And that leads to MORE trivia...What happened to the Glorious, and why was it THERE when it happened... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

01-17-2006, 08:42 AM	#9
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,853	Re: Myths of WWII HMS Glorious was taking part, as an escort for one of the two troop convoys, Group II if memory serves me, in the evacuation from Norway of all British and other Allied personnel in early June 1940. At some point the Captain of Glorious asked to be allowed to sail alone for Scapa, due to his being hell bent for election to court marshall his Air Commander. She sailed on alone with two destroyers for protective cover and at some point came under attack by two German battlecruisers, Gneisenau and Scharnhorst. In the ensuing battle all three of the British ships were sunk. The permission granted by Admiralty to sail on alone never should have been granted..... __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

01-17-2006, 03:22 PM	#10
17thfabn Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: North bank of the mighty Ohio River Posts: 847	Re: Myths of WWII He said spitfires "flew" from the decks of the USS Wasp. Many times land based fighters took off from U.S. carriers, while being delivered to a forward base. They did not have to return. I know this was done with U.S. fighters, so I can see the Wasp delivering Spitfires that "flew" from her one time. The picture of Polish lancers attacking German armor is myth I believe. The Polish lancers were caught out in the open by the German armor, and a photographer snapped the picture which was mislabled for propaganda purposes. BTW the Russians made very good use of horse cavalry in WW II. They would infiltrate behind German lines and attack rear area units. Indirectly they took many german tanks out of action by destroying their fuel, and support units. Tanks especialy German ones in WW II need constant care. Destroying their support units was as effective as destroying them more directly. __________________ "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world!" Albert Einstein "The opportunist thinks of me and today. The statesman thinks of us and tomorrow." Dwight D. Eisenhower, U.S. President & Five Star General. Rock and Roll forever, rap, hip hop and disco never!

01-17-2006, 04:44 PM	#11
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Re: Myths of WWII Many today don't realize that horses were used far more during WWII than one might think. The Germans used them extensively for transport of food and ammo, especially during the early stages of the war. __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)

01-17-2006, 04:46 PM	#12
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Re: Myths of WWII OK, here's another trivia on battleships in WWII for ya Polish: What was the only U.S. submarine to sink a Japanese battleship in WWII, and which battleship did she sink? __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)

01-17-2006, 08:07 PM	#13
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,860	Re: Myths of WWII WELL, the Shinano was a CONVERTED yamato class BB, does she count? (even though she was a CV at the time she was sunk?) FINE job on the Glorious, marlin! DO you remember what he wanted to courtmartial the AC for? I can't remember, but I DO remember it was for something relatively trivial for a time of war, and demonstrated that some Admirals of the Royal navy at THEIR start were still were in the "peacetime" mindset just like many of ours were shortly after Dec 1941...and also, did he even have PERMISSION from the admiralty. or did he just go off on his own? But the best part of the fight was the "little" DD HMS Glowworm, making high speed attacks again and again on the German gun line and laying smoke all by herself, on the order of the DDs and DEs in the Taffy fight off Samar in Oct 44...just to try and draw them off the Glorious...until she too bought it... And 17th got it! The Polish Cavalry charging Panzers turned out to be a product of German Propaganda, but not only did I read it when I was young, I was TAUGHT that in high school, and knowing how stubborn Polaks ARE, found it easy to BELIEVE it. In fact, I was actually a liitle disappointed to find out it WASN'T true, I actually could envision it and took pride in it as a kid... Gold Braid actually WAS high on the list the Russians asked for in Lend Lease supplies...kinda like the Brits listing TEA as a "strategic material"... But I'm still thinking on the BB one, HHmmm... CRAP. I KNOW this, or else I SHOULD! What actually sunk Fuso off Savo? Hmmmm... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. Last edited by polishshooter; 01-17-2006 at 08:12 PM..

01-17-2006, 09:43 PM	#14
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,853	Re: Myths of WWII I believe the straw that broke the camel's back was when the Captain ordered the AC to launch several "Swordfish" in a situation that the AC felt was way beyond reasonable and a certain death warrant for his fliers and the AC refused to follow that order. I seem to recall that these two never got on very well and it seems the Captain was just waiting for an excuse to get rid of the AC. It appears to be a petty difference in the proper way to utilize the men and equipment. __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

01-17-2006, 11:02 PM	#16
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,860	Re: Myths of WWII Marlin, It PROBABLY had a lot to do with the fact in the RN, Air Officers did NOT get commands, so by definition, the Captain was NOT an "aviator," and probably didn't even understand airplanes! In fact, as a LINE officer, he probably got flack from his peers, because if he was GOOD, he would probably have been given command of a "real" combat ship, a BB, BC, or even a CRUISER, and not a "carrier..." A recipe for disaster. I also read there was animosity many times between them, "line" officers looked down their nose at aviators as "not really" naval officers, but resented that they got more pay for flying, and vice versa, aviators were frustrated they couldn't advance in rank or to command other than aircraft, dead end career... Not like the USN, to command a CARRIER, you HAD to be an "aviator..." and "aviators" could command other ships BESIDES carriers too...so no drawback to being one! __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. Last edited by polishshooter; 01-17-2006 at 11:04 PM..

01-17-2006, 11:22 PM	#17
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Re: Myths of WWII Marlin, ever notice how Polish always likes to add something at the end of his response to keep the argument going? One might say that he likes to take the, er, a, "Pole" position. OK, another submarine trivia question: What American submarine acquired the name of "Submarie Killer" and is credited with the destruction of three Japanese subs on a single war patrol? __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)

01-18-2006, 01:26 AM	#18
JohnK3 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,636	Re: Myths of WWII USS Batfish (SS310) http://www.ussbatfish.com/

01-18-2006, 10:18 AM	#21
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,853	Re: Myths of WWII I believe that a "black shoe" can, if he is good enough and possibly knows someone, can command a carrier in today's Navy. I had a good friend who was being groomed for just such an assignment when the Navy sent him to both Air Command & Staff and Air War College at Maxwell AFB. Unfortunately when serving as an XO on a carrier he was killed in an automobile accident, never making it all the way. __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

01-20-2006, 09:09 PM	#23
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,860	Re: Myths of WWII Spruance never commanded "A" carrier in his carreer, but I never said a non-aviator could not command a FLEET that included carriers (Kinkaid also commanded CVEs as part of his battle fleet in the Aleutians, and later)....and Nimitz caught a HELLUVA lot of flack from above and below for naming him and not another "aviator..", but Nimitz was FIERCELY loyal to subordinates especially those that had served on his staff in high positions, and if you think about it, Nimitz probably had a BETTER idea how Spruance thought than Halsey from bewing around him so much at Pearl...so much so I REALLY wonder if the "hives" excuse was REALLY the reason or made up for "public consumption..." after all, you do NOT relieve "Heros" especially at a time the public was so hungry for them...an Halsey was about the ONLY USN Admiral "Joe Lunchbox" could NAME in early 42....can you name me ANYBODY, famous or even friends and relatives, "hospitalized for hives???" I can't. But then again Halsey WAS always on the edge, and did by some accounts suffer a "nervous breakdown" during Leyte after "The World Wonders..." And X? The more I think about your point for that "longest shot by a BB" as being pretty short if it was 26000 yds, I think your are right! While Dunnigan and Nofi are GREAT with their facts, that HAS to be either a typo ir a flat out mistake. Salt Lake City was trading HITS with Nachi and Maya at 24000 at speed at Komandorski Islands, so a measly more 2000 shouldn't have been too hard for a BB...I wonder if it should have read "36000(?)" I checked again, it does say "more than 26000." SO I wonder if it was a typo, or a flat out mistake? That's why history is an ART not a science, "dueling sources" is more common than you think, and many "facts" we learned in textbooks in school especially, but also LOTS of "histories" and "I was theres..." can be "wrong" too...(Unless you are SLA Marshall, then the "facts" MAY have been made up in a bar in the rear after a few stiff drinks... ) __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

03-23-2006, 09:45 PM	#25
swiftman V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: East Central Ill Posts: 220	Re: Myths of WWII I will have to get some books out but I believe the Wasp or Hornet was in the atlantic when Peal Harbor was bombed. There were some that spent some time in both oceans. Just glad none were at Pearl on 7 7 41 because we did not have any to waste sitting in harbor as a torpedo target at that time.