Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts - Page 3 - The Firearms Forum

1911Kid · 04-03-2007, 07:21 AM

Wilson, Kimber, Springfeild, are all very good manufacturers. Their pistols are reliable, rugged, and accurate. Charles Daly is making some fine peices now and their quality has greatly improved over the last couple of years. I have not shot a Taurus 1911 but I am pretty sure they are decent aswell. Mil-Spec just means that that is the way it will be sold to the military. Lowered sights ect. I personally prefer full length guide rods but their is a argument between them. Both are still decent none the same. Hope this info helped you out.

Can't Go Wrong With A 1911
Kid

stash247 · 04-03-2007, 08:59 PM

Kid, a company that offers a "Lifetime Warranty" with few to no takers, builds anything but junk!
Shakespeare, I think, phrased it "Damning, by faint praise".
I have used both the M-9, and the Taurus PT (91-92?) pistols for a lot of years, not my favorite, as the handle is too big for my hand, but at least the 'copy', the Taurus, does not require a catcher's mask, at the range, and they left the ****ing safety, on the frame, where it belongs, for those of us lacking the thumb of an Orangutan.
True enough, their revolvers are unique in design, and parts, seldom needed, involve some wait; their pistols, OTOH, are as or more robust than anything in the mrketplace, and reliable as the sunrise.
I have no doubt, but that their 1911 'clone' will be the same.
Terry

jrc45auto · 02-18-2009, 11:09 AM

45nut & I have the same experience so I'll quote him.

"I've owned Colts - Gov't Model, Combat Commander & 1991A1 Officer's ACP, Llama Compact, and just added a Rock Island last weekend. The RIA 45 was a steal @ $338.00 and is well put together. Military type sights and very nice grips. Fit and function is good as well as performance. What I really like is it is accurate out of the box. My first 3 magazines (Novak, Chip Mc, and ??) performed great, no feeding or ejecting issues. On the first magazine, I did have to nudge the slide all the way closed a few times, but I shot it STRAIGHT from the box."

I believe they are going for $450 now.
Even at that they are a good deal, 45's are expensive.
My last Gold cup Nat Match was $1200.
The RIA is every bit as tight and accurate as any of my Colts
It may not last for 100,000 rounds, but the average joe will only shoot
it normally and at 100 rds/session 52 sessions/yr = 5200 rds/yr at current price $2600.00 if you could buy them "out of stock".
It should last at least one lifetime.

Dirtypacman · 02-18-2009, 01:02 PM

Interesting read with all the opinions.

Just to update on the S&W 1911's have come a long way from a couple years back. They are getting more and more popular as the reputation of the newer productions has been good.

I really like Kimber's line but have no experience other then all the good things written about them. I have been waiting it out until I can get an older Colt to put in my collection.

GBevis · 02-21-2009, 06:01 PM

Quick question,

friend of mine says he is buying a International Ordinance 1911A1, made some time in the 50's. I am not familiar with them as a manufacturer, and the 1911A1 is not my field of expertise, could someone poine me towards a source to research this ?

GBevis · 02-21-2009, 06:02 PM

Sorry to be a pain, but it seems the manufacturer is Auto-Ordinance, same question though, any opinions on them?

Shooter45 · 02-21-2009, 09:03 PM

The early Auto Ord 1911's were Junk IMHO. Sharp edges, crude parts,etc. Check it out closely before doing the purchase.

DEADEYE1964 · 02-22-2009, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raveneap

I'm really happy with my new Springfield Armory Custom Loaded...

My favorite, next on my list. That is a fine looking firearm.

crockett007 · 03-02-2009, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

Colts are the creme de la creme of .45s in my book, Berto, assuming you can find one of the older ones, Series 70 or 80, when they were still building handguns instead of overpriced crud.

First of all, I like Colt 1911's too, I own two. But, I was in my shooting "prime" in the 70's and 80's and I can tell you first hand that Colt's reputation was pretty bad as far as quality was concerned. I remember when Springfields came out and every body went for them as they were much cheaper than Colt and were actually tighter and fit & finish was superior.

That being said, Once I built my series 80 govt, it is my favorite pistol. The Colt name sells a lot of pistols, but Colt quality has been inconsistent over the last thirty years or so.

colt · 03-02-2009, 05:56 AM

I have a Para Ordinance that shoots exceptionaly well, fits me hand great, and is as well made as anything out there.

Shooter45 · 03-02-2009, 06:25 AM

Did anyone else notice this thread is over three years old and the original poster never showed back up to read the suggestions.

Lots of opinions and good info in this thread.

colt · 03-02-2009, 08:49 AM

I own a Para Ordinance and the gun shoots just great. It fits my hand like a glove and just an all around a well built gun. There are many well built 1911 these days and the Para is definatly one of them.

Brian48 · 03-02-2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBevis

Sorry to be a pain, but it seems the manufacturer is Auto-Ordinance, same question though, any opinions on them?

I had some reservations about Auto-Ordnance. I remember the old Numrich manufactured guns in the early days and they weren't great. I had to remind myself that this was a completely different company making these guns now (Kahr). Anyway, I took a chance and picked one up as a "knock around" gun to take some of the wear and tear off my Colts. The AOs are one of the few 1911s we can buy here "new" in the People's Republic of MA. I'm about at the 800+ rd marker right now. Pretty darn happy with mine. Here's my initial review of the gun over at the 1911 forum if you want details.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=214410

MAGNUM44 · 08-30-2009, 03:04 AM

My SA Mil- Spec is not the Military GI one I bought the little more expensive one that has the SS BBL & the throated & polished ramp + a few goodies with the new gun like 2 sets og grips & a holster & Mag carrier, the whole thin ran about $775.00, it's the parkerized version, package & i love this gun, best money I ever spent on a SD gun.

Hammerslagger · 08-30-2009, 02:50 PM

I tend to avoid recommending specific products, especially relative to Model 1911 pistols, because there are many very good makers and products.

Unfortunately, there are some makers who have made (and may still make) some junk. I do not want to possibly have to defend my statements in litigation, so I write with caution.

I personally look for respected makers who used forged frames and slides. Even though the forging may be done in another country, I prefer that the machining and heat treatment be done in North America. A little research on the buyers part will determine which commercial products meet the aforementioned specifications.

Teejay9 · 08-30-2009, 04:33 PM

Knowing myself, and what I like, I'd go for a classic WWI/WWII vet. No frills and you know it's going to work. You can spend a lot on a safe queen, or not as much on a shooter. TJ

Hammerslagger · 08-30-2009, 05:18 PM

U S military production 1911 and 1911A1 are exceedingly pricey, today because of collector and historical interest. They are pushing 65 to 90 years of age. Steel does not improve with long age.

Also, during WW II the need for a large number of pistols fast, cause many variances to be allowed by the War Dept. for parts that failed to meet actual blueprint specs, but were still deemed serviceable for war emergency purposes.

Pre WW II commercial colts are also exceedingly pricey and getting old..

Post WW II commercial Colts are usually very desirable, especially the original "Series 70" pistols made in the 1970's. {But you will need to change the barrel bushing, for reliability considerations in a personal defense gun.}

There is a U S firm that (How shall I say?) took the name of a famous U. S Army Armory in the same city where S&W is located after that Armory stopped manufacturing weapons for the U S Govt. I think that they make some forged frame and slide no frills1911A1 type pistols. I own several. Lightly used guns can be a a good buy. They also make fancy 1911 type pistols as do many other good makers.

Teejay9 · 08-31-2009, 12:27 PM

Are you speaking of "Springfield Armory" 1911s? I have never shot one, so I'm not acquainted with the different makes. I guess you're right about the oldies, but mine never hiccuped. It's all those after market frills that get me like beaver tails, skeleton hammers and triggers, etc. I would be interested in a newer, no frills 1911. TJ

Hammerslagger · 09-01-2009, 09:56 AM

It is my understanding that the current Springfield Armory brand uses forged frames and slides made by IBEL in Brazil. I believe their entry level gun is made in Brazil and so marked. The next step up which is still a no frills design (but uses or used to use 1950's style fixed NM sights). I understand these have their frames and slides machined and heat treated in N. America.

Springfield of Genesco. IL likely has a toll free customer support phone number and web site. Check them out.

P.S. Barrel cracking seems to be the most common (and not a very common) issue with 65 year old and older 1911's. Cracking one can significantly devalue a collector grade gun. I do not have current prices for GI spec barrels of modern mfg; but would guess about $75 today.

Teejay9 · 09-06-2009, 07:52 PM

I can't see how many WWII guns are considered "shooters," and perform properly. Under your scenario, the old steel on these war horse should be giving out all the time. M-1, M-1 carbines, 1911, lugers, "Victory" revolvers. 1903-a3s aren't falling apart, so why would a 1940s Colt 1911 be subject to parts failure? I have a slight disagreement with you on this one, Hammer. I WOULD have a problem with a Japanese type 94, and wouldn't trust it, but a 1911-A1? Not too worried. Granted, they are expensive and getting more so. TJ

Hammerslagger · 09-07-2009, 12:27 AM

As to Teejay9's last post it is not really a safety issue with 1911's as it is with Damascus barrel shotguns or low number 1903 Springfield rifles. Most 1911's are still serviceable. Failures are rare.

It is a matter of devaluing a collector item. In over 50 years, I have only seen only two 1911 (WW II or earlier vintage) barrels crack from normal shooting and loads. {Nothing dangerous.} However the supply of original and surplus barrels is long gone. If you beak a part in an old valuable gun, you are not likely to find a correct replacement part (that will fool and expert) at an inexpensive price.

The US military 1911 you could buy for $35 to $45 fifty years ago, brings over a $1000, today. The same basic idea is true of old Lugers and other collector guns.

04-03-2007, 07:21 AM	#51
1911Kid V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NC Posts: 56	Re: Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts Wilson, Kimber, Springfeild, are all very good manufacturers. Their pistols are reliable, rugged, and accurate. Charles Daly is making some fine peices now and their quality has greatly improved over the last couple of years. I have not shot a Taurus 1911 but I am pretty sure they are decent aswell. Mil-Spec just means that that is the way it will be sold to the military. Lowered sights ect. I personally prefer full length guide rods but their is a argument between them. Both are still decent none the same. Hope this info helped you out. Can't Go Wrong With A 1911 Kid __________________ “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they server rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” - Thomas Jefferson

04-03-2007, 08:59 PM	#52
stash247 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Central Texas Posts: 2,815	Re: Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts Kid, a company that offers a "Lifetime Warranty" with few to no takers, builds anything but junk! Shakespeare, I think, phrased it "Damning, by faint praise". I have used both the M-9, and the Taurus PT (91-92?) pistols for a lot of years, not my favorite, as the handle is too big for my hand, but at least the 'copy', the Taurus, does not require a catcher's mask, at the range, and they left the **ing safety, on the frame, where it belongs, for those of us lacking the thumb of an Orangutan. True enough, their revolvers are unique in design, and parts, seldom needed, involve some wait; their pistols, OTOH, are as or more robust than anything in the mrketplace, and reliable as the sunrise. I have no doubt, but that their 1911 'clone' will be the same. Terry __________________ Don't start no st and there won't be none, Terry

02-18-2009, 11:09 AM	#53
jrc45auto Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 5	Re: Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts 45nut & I have the same experience so I'll quote him. "I've owned Colts - Gov't Model, Combat Commander & 1991A1 Officer's ACP, Llama Compact, and just added a Rock Island last weekend. The RIA 45 was a steal @ $338.00 and is well put together. Military type sights and very nice grips. Fit and function is good as well as performance. What I really like is it is accurate out of the box. My first 3 magazines (Novak, Chip Mc, and ??) performed great, no feeding or ejecting issues. On the first magazine, I did have to nudge the slide all the way closed a few times, but I shot it STRAIGHT from the box." I believe they are going for $450 now. Even at that they are a good deal, 45's are expensive. My last Gold cup Nat Match was $1200. The RIA is every bit as tight and accurate as any of my Colts It may not last for 100,000 rounds, but the average joe will only shoot it normally and at 100 rds/session 52 sessions/yr = 5200 rds/yr at current price $2600.00 if you could buy them "out of stock". It should last at least one lifetime. Last edited by jrc45auto; 02-18-2009 at 11:11 AM..

02-18-2009, 01:02 PM	#54
Dirtypacman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Merrimac Valley, MA Posts: 908	Re: Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts Interesting read with all the opinions. Just to update on the S&W 1911's have come a long way from a couple years back. They are getting more and more popular as the reputation of the newer productions has been good. I really like Kimber's line but have no experience other then all the good things written about them. I have been waiting it out until I can get an older Colt to put in my collection. __________________ Member HHRG and HSC, NRA Life Member, GOAL Member LTC-A

02-21-2009, 06:01 PM	#55
GBevis Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2	Re: Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts Quick question, friend of mine says he is buying a International Ordinance 1911A1, made some time in the 50's. I am not familiar with them as a manufacturer, and the 1911A1 is not my field of expertise, could someone poine me towards a source to research this ?

02-21-2009, 06:02 PM	#56
GBevis Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2	Re: Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts Sorry to be a pain, but it seems the manufacturer is Auto-Ordinance, same question though, any opinions on them?

02-21-2009, 09:03 PM	#57
Shooter45 Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Contributor Posts: 8,752	Re: Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts The early Auto Ord 1911's were Junk IMHO. Sharp edges, crude parts,etc. Check it out closely before doing the purchase.

03-02-2009, 05:56 AM	#60
colt V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Ky. Posts: 147	Re: Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts I have a Para Ordinance that shoots exceptionaly well, fits me hand great, and is as well made as anything out there.

03-02-2009, 06:25 AM	#61
Shooter45 Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Contributor Posts: 8,752	Re: Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts Did anyone else notice this thread is over three years old and the original poster never showed back up to read the suggestions. Lots of opinions and good info in this thread.

03-02-2009, 08:49 AM	#62
colt V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Ky. Posts: 147	Re: Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts I own a Para Ordinance and the gun shoots just great. It fits my hand like a glove and just an all around a well built gun. There are many well built 1911 these days and the Para is definatly one of them.

08-30-2009, 03:04 AM	#64
MAGNUM44 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: UPPER NYS Posts: 68	Re: Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts My SA Mil- Spec is not the Military GI one I bought the little more expensive one that has the SS BBL & the throated & polished ramp + a few goodies with the new gun like 2 sets og grips & a holster & Mag carrier, the whole thin ran about $775.00, it's the parkerized version, package & i love this gun, best money I ever spent on a SD gun.

08-30-2009, 02:50 PM	#65
Hammerslagger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,099	Re: Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts I tend to avoid recommending specific products, especially relative to Model 1911 pistols, because there are many very good makers and products. Unfortunately, there are some makers who have made (and may still make) some junk. I do not want to possibly have to defend my statements in litigation, so I write with caution. I personally look for respected makers who used forged frames and slides. Even though the forging may be done in another country, I prefer that the machining and heat treatment be done in North America. A little research on the buyers part will determine which commercial products meet the aforementioned specifications.

08-30-2009, 04:33 PM	#66
Teejay9 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Southwest Corner of the US, "Where no stinking fence will stop us!!" Posts: 1,257	Re: Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts Knowing myself, and what I like, I'd go for a classic WWI/WWII vet. No frills and you know it's going to work. You can spend a lot on a safe queen, or not as much on a shooter. TJ __________________ A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have". Thomas Jefferson

08-30-2009, 05:18 PM	#67
Hammerslagger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,099	Re: Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts U S military production 1911 and 1911A1 are exceedingly pricey, today because of collector and historical interest. They are pushing 65 to 90 years of age. Steel does not improve with long age. Also, during WW II the need for a large number of pistols fast, cause many variances to be allowed by the War Dept. for parts that failed to meet actual blueprint specs, but were still deemed serviceable for war emergency purposes. Pre WW II commercial colts are also exceedingly pricey and getting old.. Post WW II commercial Colts are usually very desirable, especially the original "Series 70" pistols made in the 1970's. {But you will need to change the barrel bushing, for reliability considerations in a personal defense gun.} There is a U S firm that (How shall I say?) took the name of a famous U. S Army Armory in the same city where S&W is located after that Armory stopped manufacturing weapons for the U S Govt. I think that they make some forged frame and slide no frills1911A1 type pistols. I own several. Lightly used guns can be a a good buy. They also make fancy 1911 type pistols as do many other good makers.

08-31-2009, 12:27 PM	#68
Teejay9 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Southwest Corner of the US, "Where no stinking fence will stop us!!" Posts: 1,257	Re: Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts Are you speaking of "Springfield Armory" 1911s? I have never shot one, so I'm not acquainted with the different makes. I guess you're right about the oldies, but mine never hiccuped. It's all those after market frills that get me like beaver tails, skeleton hammers and triggers, etc. I would be interested in a newer, no frills 1911. TJ __________________ A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have". Thomas Jefferson

09-01-2009, 09:56 AM	#69
Hammerslagger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,099	Re: Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts It is my understanding that the current Springfield Armory brand uses forged frames and slides made by IBEL in Brazil. I believe their entry level gun is made in Brazil and so marked. The next step up which is still a no frills design (but uses or used to use 1950's style fixed NM sights). I understand these have their frames and slides machined and heat treated in N. America. Springfield of Genesco. IL likely has a toll free customer support phone number and web site. Check them out. P.S. Barrel cracking seems to be the most common (and not a very common) issue with 65 year old and older 1911's. Cracking one can significantly devalue a collector grade gun. I do not have current prices for GI spec barrels of modern mfg; but would guess about $75 today.

09-06-2009, 07:52 PM	#70
Teejay9 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Southwest Corner of the US, "Where no stinking fence will stop us!!" Posts: 1,257	Re: Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts I can't see how many WWII guns are considered "shooters," and perform properly. Under your scenario, the old steel on these war horse should be giving out all the time. M-1, M-1 carbines, 1911, lugers, "Victory" revolvers. 1903-a3s aren't falling apart, so why would a 1940s Colt 1911 be subject to parts failure? I have a slight disagreement with you on this one, Hammer. I WOULD have a problem with a Japanese type 94, and wouldn't trust it, but a 1911-A1? Not too worried. Granted, they are expensive and getting more so. TJ __________________ A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have". Thomas Jefferson

09-07-2009, 12:27 AM	#71
Hammerslagger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,099	Re: Buying 1911: Dos and Don'ts As to Teejay9's last post it is not really a safety issue with 1911's as it is with Damascus barrel shotguns or low number 1903 Springfield rifles. Most 1911's are still serviceable. Failures are rare. It is a matter of devaluing a collector item. In over 50 years, I have only seen only two 1911 (WW II or earlier vintage) barrels crack from normal shooting and loads. {Nothing dangerous.} However the supply of original and surplus barrels is long gone. If you beak a part in an old valuable gun, you are not likely to find a correct replacement part (that will fool and expert) at an inexpensive price. The US military 1911 you could buy for $35 to $45 fifty years ago, brings over a $1000, today. The same basic idea is true of old Lugers and other collector guns.