F-14 flies last combat mission..... - The Firearms Forum

Xracer · 02-22-2006, 07:20 AM

Goodbye to a good ol' bird.....

http://www.military.com/features/0,1...l?ESRC=navy.nl

What do you all think?

Pistolenschutze · 02-22-2006, 10:12 AM

Yes, X, it is always sad when it's time for a well-proven bird like the Tomcat to retire. She served her country very well indeed. Times and missions do change, and technology does improve, that is the way of the world. We should embrace the improvements that technology brings, but never forget the contributions of what has gone before.

Marlin · 02-22-2006, 10:19 AM

It seems so strange that one of the "modern" and "best" fighters is no being retired.....

Marlin T · 02-22-2006, 12:10 PM

This is good and bad news. The good news is that maybe we will see the JTF sooner! Bad news is that we won't see this awsome plane any more. Well that is until they pull it out of mothballs.

17thfabn · 02-24-2006, 04:43 PM

I've read that the F-18 super hornet is much easier and less expensive to maintian. And F-18 is a true multi-role fighter designed to be both a fighter and attack aircraft. Logisticaly the F-18 makes sense, you can use it for attack replacing the A-6 Intruder (of course that is another whole nother argument) and air superiority replacing the F-14. You're carrier can go to sea with almost all F-18 aircraft. Of course you will still need a few helos, anti-sub, air control, and transport aircraft (the last two using the same airframe and engines).

But... the F-14 is much faster than the F-18 mach 2.34 vs 1.8), and has the Phoenix long range anti-air missle. I would think it would make sense to keep a few F-14 aircraft per carrier "just in case". I have never heard of replacing your air superiority air craft with a slower aircraft.

polishshooter · 02-24-2006, 10:02 PM

Yeah, but it really makes sense, just like Tanks, top of the line aircraft can only be AFFORDED, much less designed, wrung out, tested and flown in any numbers by a Democracy, and Democracies don't fight each other.

Granted, the Soviets made some FINE planes, and the Russians still do, but probably can't afford to even get the bugs out...much less produce them in quantity.

SO...there is NOBODY on the even distant horizon that could put planes up against the USN that would beat the F-18, and the Tomcat IS an old airframe and has REALLY old avionics to keep working...

What's funny is that the F-15 is probably NEXT to be retired, and there is nothing in the world that can beat IT with a USAF jock behind the controls either, except the Raptor maybe...or else an F-14...

What will REALLY make us all feel old is when the last MANNED fighter makes it's exit. And it WILL happen in our lifetimes... There are fighter designs today that have to incorporate flight limiters built into the envelope, because they are capable of maneuvers that would KILL a pilot even with fully reclined seats and any possible pressure suit...

Marlin T · 02-25-2006, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polishshooter

Raptor

Now we are talking. It gobbles up and spits out an F-14 as a snack.

17thfabn · 03-04-2006, 09:53 AM

Polish are you making the argument for a "low cost" "bomb truck" of a plane? A plane that would not have the top speed or air to air radar of a fighter but would be optimized to carry a heavy load and long range/loiter time. (put a "hook" on the A-10, and give it to the Mrines) Flying over Afghanistan or Iraq at this time we do not need air to air capability. We do need a heavy punch and good range / loiter time.

polishshooter · 03-04-2006, 07:28 PM

Remember when "COIN" aircraft were all the vogue? Heck, they may as well bring back the Skyraider...a good PROP job with a BIG radial would be just the ticket for close support, low and slow, and you could STILL stick an AIM9L or Q or two under the wing "just in case' it ran into a fighter...

And speaking of that, I just heard we are putting the squadron of AC130 Spectres back into Iraq...talk about loiter time AND firepower...

Pistolenschutze · 03-05-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polishshooter

And speaking of that, I just heard we are putting the squadron of AC130 Spectres back into Iraq...talk about loiter time AND firepower...

Puff the Magic Dragon on steroids!

stash247 · 03-11-2006, 07:41 AM

pistolenshutze, be careful. You are on thin ice, as is anyone else who 'talks trash' about the C-130, in my presence!
I've pics, somewhere, of one lifting off a carrier, JATO bottle assisted, and have way too many hours of my life aboard them, to haer them bashed.
The AC-130 Spectre is the recent iteration of 'Puff', with a shitload of ground following radar, and targeting gear, aboard, and weapons systems available that boggle the mind.
Said Aircraft is without a doubt the 'Wet Dream' of all grunts, in deep kimchee, as, when it comes on station, resistance seems to 'vanish': this I have experiencd, first hand, on several ocasions.
Anything that can seemingly rotate on a wingtip, and hose a football field clean, in a few seconds, deserves to remain a tactical option, for those who fight in terms of inches, and feet, on the ground.
Back in 1970, in SEA, we took heavy fire from a regiment of NVA, in an 'A site', in the 'tri-border ' region; and were getting our a**es soundly kicked, all twelve of us, plus about 40 indigenous personnel, when the request for air support arrived; Talk about a "Dark Angel"; in less than seven minutes the threat went away! We tagged over 160 bodies, and to be sure, these were the ones 'unrecoverable', to the enemy, a minority of the casualities.
The C-130 has been in the air for about 50 years, and continues to do all the jobs technology cannot do, like short field ops, close cover ops, and hauling trash, short trip(the C-5 gets the big loads, to long runways), and takes it's licking, while keeping on ticking.
I've flown on some, so shot up daylight showed thru the floor, but, they reliably flew me 'from' to 'to'
Don't take it personal; simply, I hate to fly, and this is the best ride going, if I must, even as we speak: reliable as the sunrise, and almost as defect free. I have flown round the world, and there ain't no better ride!
Please be nice to her.

Pistolenschutze · 03-11-2006, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stash247

pistolenshutze, be careful. You are on thin ice, as is anyone else who 'talks trash' about the C-130, in my presence!

Quite the contrary, Stash!

It was not my intent to denegrate the C-130 by any means!

I meant only that the Spectre is a new and highly improved version of old Puff the Magic Dragon, a weapons system that saved my butt on more than one occasion and holds a special place in my heart. I've seen what Puff could do first hand. It may not be pretty, but it is damned effective. The new versions of that system must be an awesome sight to behold. Please accept my apology if my comment offened you in any way, but do know that was not my intent.

polishshooter · 03-11-2006, 09:01 PM

BOY people's gets TOUCHY when somebody seems to pee in they Wheaties!

Stash, tighten your trigger just a little!

But I loved your story!

I GOT it PS, and from some of your earlier posts, I knew the "steroids" comment was meant in "awe," not to slam.

But that reminds me, one time we got to discussing choppers, and somebody said something derogatory about Sh!thooks, and a Mod we used to have named Warpig almost came unglued!

Seems his MOS was crew chief on the 'Puff" version of the spec ops CH-47, and he posted a BUNCH of wicked photos of it!

Unitl then I never KNEW we had a "gunship" Sh!thook! Banks of Mini guns and all! The pics are somewhere in the archives of this forum, they were pretty wild.

Bernie109 · 05-08-2006, 02:00 PM

The F-14 requres more Maint. man hours per flight hours than any other combat aircraft in aviation history. The Phoenix missile has never been fired in anger while the Sidewinder and AAMRAM has.
The F-14 has never been challenged to its full potential. Is has skirmished with unworthy opponents in the Gulf of Sidra, was out of a job in Gulf War 1 because they never developoed it's air to ground potential, and made "Milk runs" over Iraq. With the exception of a couple of skirmishes with unworth opponents, the F-14 was fighter that never really got to fight. With the lack of worthy opponents in the air and milk runs against opponent who cannot even put up a decent AA defense, and the Maint man hours required to keep the Tomcat in the air, it was time for it to go. The F-18 can deal with the job at hand and do it with fewer maint man hours and les fuel.

cponproud · 08-01-2006, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernie109

The F-14 requres more Maint. man hours per flight hours than any other combat aircraft in aviation history. The Phoenix missile has never been fired in anger while the Sidewinder and AAMRAM has.
The F-14 has never been challenged to its full potential. Is has skirmished with unworthy opponents in the Gulf of Sidra, was out of a job in Gulf War 1 because they never developoed it's air to ground potential, and made "Milk runs" over Iraq. With the exception of a couple of skirmishes with unworth opponents, the F-14 was fighter that never really got to fight. With the lack of worthy opponents in the air and milk runs against opponent who cannot even put up a decent AA defense, and the Maint man hours required to keep the Tomcat in the air, it was time for it to go. The F-18 can deal with the job at hand and do it with fewer maint man hours and les fuel.

Seems most of you are getting sentimental about the "Old Cat", But let me tell you that if you ever had to work on them, you would gladly say BYE BYE !

I spent 3 yrs. working on the old F-14A's back in 78/81, which included a tour in the I.O. (Indian Ocean, for you land lubbers) with VF 143, on the USS Eisenhower CVN 69. For every 1 hr, the cat flew, it took close to 60
man hrs. of maintenance to get it back in the air.

The Pilots loved it, the Troops hated it! Plus, it never EVER reached it's fully advertised potential as a Superiority Fighter!!! A hearty SO LONG, to the TWIN TAILED cat.

Bernie109 · 08-01-2006, 01:27 PM

The Pilots loved it, the Troops hated it! Plus, it never EVER reached it's fully advertised potential as a Superiority Fighter!!! A hearty SO LONG, to the TWIN TAILED cat.(Quote)

The bean counters hated it too and it was the cost of keeping in the air vs the threats that were out there that spelled doom for the Cat. It was time.

02-22-2006, 07:20 AM	#1
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	F-14 flies last combat mission..... Goodbye to a good ol' bird..... http://www.military.com/features/0,1...l?ESRC=navy.nl What do you all think? -->

02-22-2006, 10:12 AM	#2
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Re: F-14 flies last combat mission..... Yes, X, it is always sad when it's time for a well-proven bird like the Tomcat to retire. She served her country very well indeed. Times and missions do change, and technology does improve, that is the way of the world. We should embrace the improvements that technology brings, but never forget the contributions of what has gone before. __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)

02-22-2006, 10:19 AM	#3
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,854	Re: F-14 flies last combat mission..... It seems so strange that one of the "modern" and "best" fighters is no being retired..... __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

02-22-2006, 12:10 PM	#4
Marlin T Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 7,857	Re: F-14 flies last combat mission..... This is good and bad news. The good news is that maybe we will see the JTF sooner! Bad news is that we won't see this awsome plane any more. Well that is until they pull it out of mothballs. __________________ "But the simple truth--born of experience--is that tyranny thrives best where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people." Judge Alex Kozinski - United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. - Thomas Paine Did you read todays GOOD shooting? >>>KEEPANDBEARARMS.COM <<<

02-24-2006, 04:43 PM	#5
17thfabn Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: North bank of the mighty Ohio River Posts: 847	Re: F-14 flies last combat mission..... I've read that the F-18 super hornet is much easier and less expensive to maintian. And F-18 is a true multi-role fighter designed to be both a fighter and attack aircraft. Logisticaly the F-18 makes sense, you can use it for attack replacing the A-6 Intruder (of course that is another whole nother argument) and air superiority replacing the F-14. You're carrier can go to sea with almost all F-18 aircraft. Of course you will still need a few helos, anti-sub, air control, and transport aircraft (the last two using the same airframe and engines). But... the F-14 is much faster than the F-18 mach 2.34 vs 1.8), and has the Phoenix long range anti-air missle. I would think it would make sense to keep a few F-14 aircraft per carrier "just in case". I have never heard of replacing your air superiority air craft with a slower aircraft. __________________ "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world!" Albert Einstein "The opportunist thinks of me and today. The statesman thinks of us and tomorrow." Dwight D. Eisenhower, U.S. President & Five Star General. Rock and Roll forever, rap, hip hop and disco never!

02-24-2006, 10:02 PM	#6
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,879	Re: F-14 flies last combat mission..... Yeah, but it really makes sense, just like Tanks, top of the line aircraft can only be AFFORDED, much less designed, wrung out, tested and flown in any numbers by a Democracy, and Democracies don't fight each other. Granted, the Soviets made some FINE planes, and the Russians still do, but probably can't afford to even get the bugs out...much less produce them in quantity. SO...there is NOBODY on the even distant horizon that could put planes up against the USN that would beat the F-18, and the Tomcat IS an old airframe and has REALLY old avionics to keep working... What's funny is that the F-15 is probably NEXT to be retired, and there is nothing in the world that can beat IT with a USAF jock behind the controls either, except the Raptor maybe...or else an F-14... What will REALLY make us all feel old is when the last MANNED fighter makes it's exit. And it WILL happen in our lifetimes... There are fighter designs today that have to incorporate flight limiters built into the envelope, because they are capable of maneuvers that would KILL a pilot even with fully reclined seats and any possible pressure suit... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. Last edited by polishshooter; 02-24-2006 at 10:09 PM..

03-04-2006, 09:53 AM	#8
17thfabn Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: North bank of the mighty Ohio River Posts: 847	Low cost "bomb truck" Polish are you making the argument for a "low cost" "bomb truck" of a plane? A plane that would not have the top speed or air to air radar of a fighter but would be optimized to carry a heavy load and long range/loiter time. (put a "hook" on the A-10, and give it to the Mrines) Flying over Afghanistan or Iraq at this time we do not need air to air capability. We do need a heavy punch and good range / loiter time. __________________ "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world!" Albert Einstein "The opportunist thinks of me and today. The statesman thinks of us and tomorrow." Dwight D. Eisenhower, U.S. President & Five Star General. Rock and Roll forever, rap, hip hop and disco never!

03-04-2006, 07:28 PM	#9
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,879	Re: F-14 flies last combat mission..... Remember when "COIN" aircraft were all the vogue? Heck, they may as well bring back the Skyraider...a good PROP job with a BIG radial would be just the ticket for close support, low and slow, and you could STILL stick an AIM9L or Q or two under the wing "just in case' it ran into a fighter... And speaking of that, I just heard we are putting the squadron of AC130 Spectres back into Iraq...talk about loiter time AND firepower... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

03-11-2006, 07:41 AM	#11
stash247 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Central Texas Posts: 2,815	Re: F-14 flies last combat mission..... pistolenshutze, be careful. You are on thin ice, as is anyone else who 'talks trash' about the C-130, in my presence! I've pics, somewhere, of one lifting off a carrier, JATO bottle assisted, and have way too many hours of my life aboard them, to haer them bashed. The AC-130 Spectre is the recent iteration of 'Puff', with a shitload of ground following radar, and targeting gear, aboard, and weapons systems available that boggle the mind. Said Aircraft is without a doubt the 'Wet Dream' of all grunts, in deep kimchee, as, when it comes on station, resistance seems to 'vanish': this I have experiencd, first hand, on several ocasions. Anything that can seemingly rotate on a wingtip, and hose a football field clean, in a few seconds, deserves to remain a tactical option, for those who fight in terms of inches, and feet, on the ground. Back in 1970, in SEA, we took heavy fire from a regiment of NVA, in an 'A site', in the 'tri-border ' region; and were getting our aes soundly kicked, all twelve of us, plus about 40 indigenous personnel, when the request for air support arrived; Talk about a "Dark Angel"; in less than seven minutes the threat went away! We tagged over 160 bodies, and to be sure, these were the ones 'unrecoverable', to the enemy, a minority of the casualities. The C-130 has been in the air for about 50 years, and continues to do all the jobs technology cannot do, like short field ops, close cover ops, and hauling trash, short trip(the C-5 gets the big loads, to long runways), and takes it's licking, while keeping on ticking. I've flown on some, so shot up daylight showed thru the floor, but, they reliably flew me 'from' to 'to' Don't take it personal; simply, I hate to fly, and this is the best ride going, if I must, even as we speak: reliable as the sunrise, and almost as defect free. I have flown round the world, and there ain't no better ride! Please be nice to her. __________________ Don't start no st and there won't be none, Terry

03-11-2006, 09:01 PM	#13
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,879	Re: F-14 flies last combat mission..... BOY people's gets TOUCHY when somebody seems to pee in they Wheaties! Stash, tighten your trigger just a little! But I loved your story! I GOT it PS, and from some of your earlier posts, I knew the "steroids" comment was meant in "awe," not to slam. But that reminds me, one time we got to discussing choppers, and somebody said something derogatory about Sh!thooks, and a Mod we used to have named Warpig almost came unglued! Seems his MOS was crew chief on the 'Puff" version of the spec ops CH-47, and he posted a BUNCH of wicked photos of it! Unitl then I never KNEW we had a "gunship" Sh!thook! Banks of Mini guns and all! The pics are somewhere in the archives of this forum, they were pretty wild. __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. Last edited by polishshooter; 03-11-2006 at 09:13 PM..

05-08-2006, 02:00 PM	#14
Bernie109 Former Guest Join Date: May 2006 Location: Central CA Posts: 274	Re: F-14 flies last combat mission..... The F-14 requres more Maint. man hours per flight hours than any other combat aircraft in aviation history. The Phoenix missile has never been fired in anger while the Sidewinder and AAMRAM has. The F-14 has never been challenged to its full potential. Is has skirmished with unworthy opponents in the Gulf of Sidra, was out of a job in Gulf War 1 because they never developoed it's air to ground potential, and made "Milk runs" over Iraq. With the exception of a couple of skirmishes with unworth opponents, the F-14 was fighter that never really got to fight. With the lack of worthy opponents in the air and milk runs against opponent who cannot even put up a decent AA defense, and the Maint man hours required to keep the Tomcat in the air, it was time for it to go. The F-18 can deal with the job at hand and do it with fewer maint man hours and les fuel.

08-01-2006, 01:27 PM	#16
Bernie109 Former Guest Join Date: May 2006 Location: Central CA Posts: 274	Re: F-14 flies last combat mission..... The Pilots loved it, the Troops hated it! Plus, it never EVER reached it's fully advertised potential as a Superiority Fighter!!! A hearty SO LONG, to the TWIN TAILED cat.(Quote) The bean counters hated it too and it was the cost of keeping in the air vs the threats that were out there that spelled doom for the Cat. It was time.