Wildcat 12GA From Hell

[hubel458]

In the 87 long smooth barrel got
1 oz Brenneke to 2400 with 110gr
of 4227, You could use 4759 and
VV110 also at lesser amounts.
Barrel is cylinder bore size.
Brenneke slugs need no wads as the
locked on wad works good.Ed
And going heavier in 87 got 600 grain
Dixie over 2000, got a Buckhammer slug
I took out of factory load over 1900.
Buckhammer and locked on wad is 630
gr. Tested in 3" plastic cases.

The firing pin on the 87 didn't protude out
like I like them to as it comes from factory,
so I removed .015 from the hammer stop.
It fires big and small primers perfect.Ed

[hubel458]

10GA FH..a NEF 10ga, medium to heavy wt smooth barrel.
28" long, gun weighted to 14lbs. Factory FED 765gr loads
are 1300 fps. 200 gr of first powder tested is 7383 surplus
and the regular shotgun primers got 765 gr to 1600,
for 4300 ft lbs. Case won't hold anymore 7383.
Federal factory hollowbase slug is .025" smaller than
10ga bore. I bumped it up to the .775" size, by expanding
hollow base. With 7383 that gave 1750 fps.Fast starting
shotgun powders expand base better than much slower 7383.
The Federal factory load has 120gr of wads/seals about 1.4"
long. Better to replace with much more slower powder,
getting better velocity, still at low shotgun pressures.
We will test 4227 with the same slug , and saboted slug
of some design. We roll crimped with crimper in drill press.
Case expansion with 7383 very little(.006") like
the factory loads. 3.5" plastic.Used one .050 wad.Ed

[hubel458]

In 10GA NEF 110gr 4227 got 765gr slug
to 1800, ejected ok. If it was a really
heavy barrel it could do more.Using the
7383 surplus at 150 gr, don't even have
to resize to fire 3 times. The 28GA FH
done and testing in next couple weeks.Ed

[hubel458]

Fired 28GA FH-- Cases extract easy.--It is
in bolt action Enfield. With 550gr jkt slug,
full load 150 gr of WC-860, got 1900 fps.
This will be slowest load and powder.
In picture is 3.25" brass 28ga cases, regular
28ga plastic case, jkt slugs, a 458Win
for comparison.Regular cases work also.Ed

[hubel458]

28ga cases are made by Rocky Mtn Cartridge,
Barrel is rifled with 4 grooves, 1-22 twist.
You could do one on Savage 210.Another
shotgun bolt action that would handle it
with little work, heavy barrel, is the
395-495-595-695 bolt action Mossberg.
Just to show that 28GA FH isn't puny, here is
picture of it next to a 505 Gibbs.Ed

[hubel458]

Here is picture and info on Royal
Arms' site for hopped up 12ga loads,
used in little cannons for bomb work.
Anyone got any of these fired that I could inspect to see how they are built.ED

http://www.royalarms.com/EOD/ammo/canonammo.gif

[hubel458]

I like the Savage 210 so I'm putting
a 700 barrel on one and chambering for
my 700H 3.25 case. Working on it now.
It is a straight belted case, .700 cal.
Should get the same energy levels as
the 12GA From Hell case in same action.
In pic is 700H case in the action.
There is guy building a 600 Nitro
in 210 also. Ed

[hubel458]

28GA FH research. Guy on forums suggested using 54cal
rifled barrels for 28ga as they are easy to get. I looked into
it and did some testing. It is ok as long as you keep bullet
about 400gr as most 54cal barrels are not super alloy.
You got to use the thick heavy ones also, being stronger.
And everyone with 28ga wants slugs and there is no slug loads
from factory, and to reload the heavier bullets we shouldn't use
these barrels or regular 28ga barrels with 600-700 gr slugs.
But there are couple dozen 54cal bullets out there
stocked all over the gunstore shelves, in weights from 300 to
450 gr. There are heavier but for 28GA FH on deer 400gr is
great. I tested the 405 gr copper plated Powerbelt brand, with
velocities from 2300 to 2800 plus fps. That's over 6500 ft lbs.
The 54cal slugs load tight in the RMC 3.25" 28ga case fine by
sizing top a little tighter. Bullet obturates to fit .550 bore
as bullet is hitting target straight. A lot of 54cal barrels
go from 530 to 560. 54cal slugs range from .534 to .560"
There are different sizes of 28ga barrels and chokes,
so some where there is lighter 54cal slug that fits..
And with light slugs the pressure limits with the MRC brass
match top muzzle loading pressures, so these barrels will work.
And great thing is the 54cal barrel guys ain't allergic
to making long barrels. Oh, I've shot one MRC case 15 times and
still going strong...Ed

[hubel458]

28GA FH testing. 405 gr in 2.75" plastic case
got 1400. Tested the Great Plains 54cal
lubed slug, runs from 2200 to 2700. It is
by Hornady and its front band actually measures
.550" and hollowbase. They hit target straight.
Got a bunch of 415gr hollowbase coming that
are 548" from Dixie Gunworks. Only 26 cents each.
All will work in plastic or long brass
case. I found another .550 bbl and coming, and
it will go on a Mossberg bolt action
for the second 28GA FH to test.. Ed

[hubel458]

tested the 415 gr hollowbase slugs in 28GA FH long
brass case. These are ones that Dixie Gunworks sell
that they call their Sharps .548" slug. They all run
about .008 bigger than that so they make perfect tight
fit for .550" barrel, and I used a good lube on them
in the grooves. They are a little harder alloy slug than
the Powerbelts or Great Plains The 28ga shellholder
for our Lee, Lyman, Rcbs presses , we use, is from
RCBS for regular metallic press rams. For 28ga dies
Hollywood made some for metallic presses.Also for
sizing for bottom 2/3 of the brass case you can cut
top off of the 500J die.The slower powder loads don't
even have to have the bottom half sized, which
is great for a turned case. If we had drawn brass cases
we could get 11,000 ft lbs, in the Enfield, which we
don't really need for deer. 4-6000 ft lbs ok/deer ..Ed

[hubel458]

Here is picture of a jacketed hollowpoint
12ga slug a fellow is going to make for us.
We hope to have tooling set up this summer
we plan on. Next to it is a 600gr Dixie hardened
slug. First ones he will probably make will
be about 700-750 gr.Ed

[Crpdeth]

Keep the updates coming, Hubel...I don't have much to add in the way of responses in this field, but I sure enjoy following your progress!

Thanks

Crpdeth

[hubel458]

In the 87 Win Levergun, smooth barrel,
long barrel, using brass RMC 3" cases,
1 oz Brenneke KO slug to 2700 with 4227
powder. Shotgun primer. I will be getting
some 3.5" RMC brass that he will put a special
longer corner radius in, to allow faster loads
with less case expansion and easier resizing.
Should get same slug to 3000 and resize
easier also. With shotgun primer able to use
4227, and you WON"T have to rework hammer
or firing pin to do big primers.

Santa sent me 9 more PROP cases used in little
cannons for bomb disposal. Got 12 now.Ed

[hubel458]

THE 8GA FH BELLERED TODAY. It is in Enfield I rigged with
rear locking bolt lugs. 32" barrel, tested 3.3" plastic cases.
Cases are the REM kiln gun cases. With the double cup base.
I shaved base a little so that chamber will fire these as well as
regular 8ga plastic. None of the firing today expanded base cups
at all, so they are real strong cases. Started testing to check
ignition with shotgun primers and to see if cases are any
good. Starting with a 110 gr mouse ball, wad under it, and 150 gr
of Blue Dot, about 5000 fps.. Gun didn't even recoil.Then a
410 gr one at 3000 fps, Then a 770 gr hollowbase slug in a wadcup
up to 2000 so far with 180gr of 7383. Barrel is smoothbore. 832"
bore at the muzzle. Ed

[hubel458]

8GA FH testing- using IMR 4759, 770 gr slug,
top load of 140 gr, got 2500 fps......
Over 10,000 ft lbs..Cases extract easy.
Here is picture of Enfield 8GA FH. You can see plastic case
in the port. Box of cases behind, 770 gr and 1050 gr
slugs in front with the 8ga wadcups I use.
Left two slugs are 1050 gr made from 3 oz kiln slugs.
I rounded nose and put in hollow base. Also the
cards and fiber wads used. Slugs are hollowbase, as
it is smooth bore barrel. Ed

[magusjinx]

Just out of curiosity ... Ever think of shortening a 12 gauge to 2 inch and making it a pistol?

[hubel458]

I've heard of guys shortening them for pistols and light guns.
You can do it . Maybe get papers as it becomes
short barrel shotgun. Ed

[magusjinx]

As long as it was originaly manufactured with a rifled barrel it might be easier to reclassify as a pistol ...

Just out of curiosity ... The Mossberg 500 series can be had from the factory with a pistol grip and rifled barrel ... What would happen if someone shortened the barrel to under 18 inches? ... Wouldn't its barrel construction (rifling) and design of not being intended to be shoulder-fired (pistol grip) constitute a pistol classification prior to shortening therefore not be an NFA firearm but a standard pistol? ...


Just a thought ...

Still wondering about the "chambering of a shotshell" part ...

[JohnK3]

If you started with a rifled-barrel shotgun with a pistol grip and then shortened the barrel to less than 18" without prior ATF authorization, you would be guilty of manufacturing a short-barreled rifle without a permit.

If it started out without a rifled barrel, then it's a short-barreled shotgun.

Either way, you can't do it without the proper forms, etc.

[magusjinx]

Almost wonder if it would be worth getting a manufacturers license ...

[hubel458]

You can make anything you want,just need permission.
Translation- do the paperwork, pay the money.

Here is picture on left of the 12ga hollowpoint slug
with plastic tip. Makes it streamlined, good for 300yds.
And still will expand good thin skinned game-deer.
I put tip in with glue gun in few seconds, and
shaped a point on it with trim knife. Ed

[hubel458]

I also have two other cartridges with my name
on them that I am promoting. They are my 700HE
and my 585BHE. They both belted straight cases.
Montana Rifle company is coming out with their
big PH action and some guys will be doing my
cases in them.
Info on the 585BHE. It will work in
any gun that handles 505 Gibbs like Enfield, CZ,
Ruger,etc.Mine is in Enfield.On left in picture
is one next to puny Trex. And mine holds 15gr more
powder than that Trex case. 585BHE will do 750
grain from 1800 to 2800 fps in my Enfield.
Anyone interested setting up a gun, contact me
I will furnish reamer and 15 free cases. Cases are
headstamped. When done return reamer to me, for
the next guy. I will keep them sharpened. After a
few guys have guns we all will get together with
others wanting some and get a run of brass made.
These cases are all drawn high pressure brass.
I'd like guys to ask for reamer when gun is going
to be ready to chamber, that way reamers get the
most guns done in shortest time.Ed

[hubel458]

On Fri May 2 8pm on the Science Channel ,they will have
an article about the heavy barrel cannons that shoot
the brass cases for bomb disposal.They are the same as
our 12GA FH case,when resized in my dies and are shown
in this thread a couple months back in picture.
It will show them using them for bomb disposal. Ed

[hubel458]

Testing 8GA FH in Enfield, 1050 gr slug in wad cup, 120 gr
of 4759, over 2000 fps. Cases extract easy. Hardly any
base cup expansion..Here is picture of a
sectioned 8ga plastic case I did,
showing how heavy and strong it is built. The
plastic is one piece compressioned formed and
the sides of the cases are twice as thick as
12ga cases.You can see the double thickness
of the base cup. Ed

[hubel458]

Here is picture of the bolt setup for the 8ga
Enfield we did.Also comparison to a Mauser
12ga shotgun bolt conversion, from which
I got the concept. Ed