CZ Rifles

[trooper10173]

New here so bear with me. I have heard good things about the CZ rifles. I would like to know what model would be best for bench rest if anyone has any experience with them. Thanks for any input.

[ZORRO]

Trooper,
The CZ452 Varmint is a good one! No open sites, heavy barrel and accurate.

http://www.cz-usa.com/products_rimfire_rifles.php?m=1
That's my choice! Good luck with yours!

Z

[LDBennett]

trooper10173:

I have several CZ rifles: 550 in 30-06, a 22 hornet, and a 308 Varmint. These are all excellent rilfes for shooting off the bench. Interestingly, I bought the 30-06 CZ when after waiting several months I could not get a Browning A-Bolt Medallian (had same experience 15 years ago with Browning availability on out of stock guns), I replaced a Ruger No.3 22 Hornet with a 22 Hornet CZ (CZ shoots far better than the Ruger), and replaced a 308 Winchester Model 70 Varmint with the CZ Varmint. In each case the replacement CZ out shot the rifle being replaced. CZ makes good stuff!!!

I can not ascertain from your post if you intend to shoot off the bench or shoot Benchrest competition. I would think that the next level or two up in cost would be required to compete in official Benchrest competition unless it is just local club benchrest shooting.

LDBennett

[trooper10173]

LDBennett, I guess I am more interested in shooting off the bench than benchrest competition at the moment. I am glad to hear CZ making good stuff. I was looking at Ruger also and can see that from your experience CZ did do better. I realize that could vary from rifle to rifle though. Thanks for the input.

[rangerruck]

you didnt mentiona caliber, but if you like the 22 the super lux, or exclusive is the best boy of them all.

[358 winchester]

I have a few CZ as well and they all out shoot the guns they replaced. My 452 out shot the Anshutz that I had and that was a expensive target rifle.
After much looking and researching I went with the CZ again when i just bought my newest 30-06

[AGB]

Have used a bunch of CZ rifles, all great guns. Like them a lot, although I do not have one, they are really well lloked for, and get high prices in Brasil. The most commmon around here is the 452, a great gun in .22lr. Would be my first choice anyday. Last year got an Imbel model 1 in .22lr, almost as good as, an old style, almost as good as a 452, but produced in very small numbers.

[rangerruck]

if you are thinking centerfire, look at 223 or 308, for good cost, and for a little more cost , go to 6.5 swede , you can go 600 yds plus with that.

[stash247]

We're on the rimfire forum, so I must suppose your couriosity to arise about this caliber.
Whether the question is about CZ, or BRNO, rifles, the answer is the same. There is no better rifle, dollar for dollar, in the marketplace.

Any of the CZ sporter rifles can be tuned to give .3 to .5 inch accuracy at 50 yds. However , that is not good enough for benchrest accuracy. You want to be able to shoot in the .1's group size. Look for a Brno model 3, 4 or 5 target rifle with the long heavy barrel to do the job if you still want to go with CZ or Brno.
Otherwise, get a high end Aanshutz or look for a late model Winchester 52 C or D target rifle.
A slightly cheaper solution would be a Winchester 75 Target.
0.1 to 0.2 group size is common in bench rest shooting where the scores are full house 250 out of 250 and often with 20 or more out of the 25 targets having the shot absolutely dead center to take out the center dot. So then, a good target would be 250-20X in this example.
So much more depends on the ability of the rifleman to understand wind flow and temperature conditions as well.
You often hear shooters brag how their Cz or Ruger 10/22 can shoot on a dime al day but that is not good enough for bench rest nor is it even true.
:-)
Jim

[rangerruck]

Originally Posted by Jim Bell

Any of the CZ sporter rifles can be tuned to give .3 to .5 inch accuracy at 50 yds. However , that is not good enough for benchrest accuracy. You want to be able to shoot in the .1's group size. Look for a Brno model 3, 4 or 5 target rifle with the long heavy barrel to do the job if you still want to go with CZ or Brno.
Otherwise, get a high end Aanshutz or look for a late model Winchester 52 C or D target rifle.
A slightly cheaper solution would be a Winchester 75 Target.
0.1 to 0.2 group size is common in bench rest shooting where the scores are full house 250 out of 250 and often with 20 or more out of the 25 targets having the shot absolutely dead center to take out the center dot. So then, a good target would be 250-20X in this example.
So much more depends on the ability of the rifleman to understand wind flow and temperature conditions as well.
You often hear shooters brag how their Cz or Ruger 10/22 can shoot on a dime al day but that is not good enough for bench rest nor is it even true.
:-)
Jim

im not a great shot, but my cz centerfire does!

[olereb1]

Yep, thats what mine looks like too-not every time though-only on my good days. CZ is a great gun, I have it in 22 mag.

[William Harper]

Dear Trooper10173:
With 60 years of shooting experience behind me beginning when my Father Weston R. Harper, a WWI draftee and BAR man and another old WWI vet, Alvin York, decided to teach the little rascal to shoot, through innumerable instructions, matches with rimfire, centerfire, and muzzleloader, I have yet to find any rifles more accurate for their weight than the CZ Lux and the CZ Ultra Lux Super Exclusive. Both have excellent iron sights-the Lux to 200 meters and the Ultra Lux to 300 meters. Their barrel lengths are 24.8 and 28.8 inches respectively. Single shot blocks are available, 5 shot magazines and 10 shot magazines, the latter two more easily loaded than Ruger's famous rotary mag. in the 10-.22. Both the CZs presently have superb triggers and both receiver and telescopic sights are available for them. My CZ Ultra Lux Super Exclusive has what I call a semi-match chamber, throat and bore. Accuracy with open sights and Aguila Interceptor .22 LR hyper velocity is 1.25" at 100 yards, 3" at 200 meters and 4.5" at 300 meters using a 12:00 hold at 300 with 3 of the hits close enough to take a squirrel cleanly.
With the receiver sights of which 4 brands are now available, I usually make one hole at 25 yards, .5" at 50 yards, 1" at 100 yards, 2-2.5 inches at 200 meters, 3.3 inches at 300 meters(and this is with a good lot of Federal Automatch, which the Ultra Lux loves in quiet air) You realize this is the accuracy of a 300 meter squirrel rifle if you know the range precisely. Now let us depart the ordinary and use the high standing but economical Mendoza
air gun receiver sight which is as well made as any Williams receiver sight and more easily mountable with 1/4 minute click adjustments plus Aguila Interceptor ammo with full knowledge of its fouling and use of the Ultra Lux's elevation adjustable front sight. Get windage adjustment by centering on your open sight which is already windage adjusted to 300 meters. Confirm your windage by firing three shots at ca. 50 clicks at 300 meters on a standard NRA 100 yard target. Then elevate rear to 160 clicks- front sight at least 50% lowered, and engage a Yellowbook at 400 meters. I have never missed one- once on. The group average is 7", the penetration on a Tampa Yellowbook averages 75% with much bullet deformation at 400 meters. Now run out your elevation and back on about three or four clicks to hold it and engage your brace screw to fix the rear sight firmly. Lower your front sight to 75 or 80% down and with a clean, dry bore take a sight picture on a YellowBook at 500 meters or a 16" black with clean paper above and below it. Expect a 10" group in quiet air first group. You may be on target. If you need more elevation lower the front sight a hair. Fouling will expand the group about 3-5" per group. I went 10" low, 15" higher, 19" dead centered tearing up a 16 inch bull out to the 7 ring. Lower the front sight fully and fire at 600 meters. My groups were 12" low, then 19" on the target paper. Penetration was the bullet's full length plus 1/16th inch in railroad tie. This was witnessed and I still have the targets and can repeat the performance at will in calm air. I think you can see there can be a little more excitement in marksmanship with the .22 LR than simply mechanically trying to punch in the smallest group at 50 yards. Now dismount your Mendoza sight and readjust your front sight in less than three minutes and with your open iron sights and Federal Automatch engage a standard fifty-foot black at twenty-five yards cutting one hole in that squirrel head sized mark. And both the Lux and the Ultra Lux can mount telescopic sights! I think you can see there is more to these CZ rifles than ordinarily thought and a wider scope of .22 LR marksmanship open to you than you suspected. I don't use a telescopic sight in my marksmanship research very often; they add unnecessary weight and you can buy a lot of fine ammo for the high price of a scope. Acheive mastery and let the lads gape as 4" silhouettes go down one after another at 300 meters. Intend to become a master of the elegancies of fine markmanship. Think about it.

[fyimo]

I recently bought a CZ 550 American in 22-250 and it pleasantly surprised me because it's a great rifle.

[da357mag]

Bought a 452 special, put in an AS sear and spring, pull is still too heavy for my taste
so im going to put in a lighter one. opened the barell chanel up to simi free float it, it's
been cold here (Medford OR) and foggy so have'nt had a chance to take it out and test
it yet but I think it should do quite nicely! Doug

[jrg]

If for scope use, go with Varmint, Silhouette or American. The hogsback stocked really are more for iron sights. Can be done, but you probably won't feel all that comfortable.

[GregD]

Mr. Harper you do have a way with words, I enjoy your post.

[da357mag]

Im back, I couldn't get on the site because of a glitch in my security system, anyway
orderd a Yo Dave trigger kit for the springs and installed the second lightest one,got
the pull down to about 1 to 1.5 lbs and passes all the tests. waiting on some half way
decent weather to do some ammo testing. I tweaked about all that I think is needed at
this point so I will think about bedding for another project!Doug

[redryder8888]

Originally Posted by William Harper

Dear Trooper10173:
With 60 years of shooting experience behind me beginning when my Father Weston R. Harper, a WWI draftee and BAR man and another old WWI vet, Alvin York, decided to teach the little rascal to shoot, through innumerable instructions, matches with rimfire, centerfire, and muzzleloader, I have yet to find any rifles more accurate for their weight than the CZ Lux and the CZ Ultra Lux Super Exclusive. Both have excellent iron sights-the Lux to 200 meters and the Ultra Lux to 300 meters. Their barrel lengths are 24.8 and 28.8 inches respectively. Single shot blocks are available, 5 shot magazines and 10 shot magazines, the latter two more easily loaded than Ruger's famous rotary mag. in the 10-.22. Both the CZs presently have superb triggers and both receiver and telescopic sights are available for them. My CZ Ultra Lux Super Exclusive has what I call a semi-match chamber, throat and bore. Accuracy with open sights and Aguila Interceptor .22 LR hyper velocity is 1.25" at 100 yards, 3" at 200 meters and 4.5" at 300 meters using a 12:00 hold at 300 with 3 of the hits close enough to take a squirrel cleanly.
With the receiver sights of which 4 brands are now available, I usually make one hole at 25 yards, .5" at 50 yards, 1" at 100 yards, 2-2.5 inches at 200 meters, 3.3 inches at 300 meters(and this is with a good lot of Federal Automatch, which the Ultra Lux loves in quiet air) You realize this is the accuracy of a 300 meter squirrel rifle if you know the range precisely. Now let us depart the ordinary and use the high standing but economical Mendoza
air gun receiver sight which is as well made as any Williams receiver sight and more easily mountable with 1/4 minute click adjustments plus Aguila Interceptor ammo with full knowledge of its fouling and use of the Ultra Lux's elevation adjustable front sight. Get windage adjustment by centering on your open sight which is already windage adjusted to 300 meters. Confirm your windage by firing three shots at ca. 50 clicks at 300 meters on a standard NRA 100 yard target. Then elevate rear to 160 clicks- front sight at least 50% lowered, and engage a Yellowbook at 400 meters. I have never missed one- once on. The group average is 7", the penetration on a Tampa Yellowbook averages 75% with much bullet deformation at 400 meters. Now run out your elevation and back on about three or four clicks to hold it and engage your brace screw to fix the rear sight firmly. Lower your front sight to 75 or 80% down and with a clean, dry bore take a sight picture on a YellowBook at 500 meters or a 16" black with clean paper above and below it. Expect a 10" group in quiet air first group. You may be on target. If you need more elevation lower the front sight a hair. Fouling will expand the group about 3-5" per group. I went 10" low, 15" higher, 19" dead centered tearing up a 16 inch bull out to the 7 ring. Lower the front sight fully and fire at 600 meters. My groups were 12" low, then 19" on the target paper. Penetration was the bullet's full length plus 1/16th inch in railroad tie. This was witnessed and I still have the targets and can repeat the performance at will in calm air. I think you can see there can be a little more excitement in marksmanship with the .22 LR than simply mechanically trying to punch in the smallest group at 50 yards. Now dismount your Mendoza sight and readjust your front sight in less than three minutes and with your open iron sights and Federal Automatch engage a standard fifty-foot black at twenty-five yards cutting one hole in that squirrel head sized mark. And both the Lux and the Ultra Lux can mount telescopic sights! I think you can see there is more to these CZ rifles than ordinarily thought and a wider scope of .22 LR marksmanship open to you than you suspected. I don't use a telescopic sight in my marksmanship research very often; they add unnecessary weight and you can buy a lot of fine ammo for the high price of a scope. Acheive mastery and let the lads gape as 4" silhouettes go down one after another at 300 meters. Intend to become a master of the elegancies of fine markmanship. Think about it.

William Harper- Hi William I am Jim Red Ryder's friend and was very impressed by your article. We all went out target shooting the other day and I really enjoyed shooting the S&W 41 target pistol most of all the the 22LR pistols available. Currently I am 23 and on a pretty tight budget. Have been looking for a target pistol and could use your advice. Do you feel I should save up and buy a 41 or do you feel that my long term shooting enjoyment would be as well suited by a S&W 22A or a Ruger MKIII...as you can appreciate delayed gratifitation is omnipresent however if you feel that delayed gratification would be better long term I would heed your words. On another note if there is another pistol you feel warrants consideration your advice would be appreciated. Thanks Jim,
P.S. I intend to keep this pistol for life

[pawn]

Agree that per dollar spent, CZ is the best you can get. IMHO, you can spend alot more money and get a better rifle but not by much and not proportional to the additional cost.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by trooper10173

LDBennett, I guess I am more interested in shooting off the bench than benchrest competition at the moment. I am glad to hear CZ making good stuff. I was looking at Ruger also and can see that from your experience CZ did do better. I realize that could vary from rifle to rifle though. Thanks for the input.

Leave Ruger alone. Ruger has some quality control issues and their customer no-service department made me so mad that if I had been in the same room with them I would probably be in prison. I bought a .22-250 from them that had a bent chamber. It is a mystery to me how you could possibly accomplish this. I can not conceive how you could achieve a bent chamber, but those block heads did it. When I called customer service, they told me that if it shoots factory ammo they were not doing anything about it. By the definition of shoot, it did just that, but it would not hit the broad side of a barn. They did not seem to care about that. They then told me how my shooting reloads had voided the warranty. Now, I put Ruger on my list of JUNK to avoid at all cost. Everybody has their screw ups, but fix them when they happen. Do not stick the customer with your mistake.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by pawn

Agree that per dollar spent, CZ is the best you can get. IMHO, you can spend alot more money and get a better rifle but not by much and not proportional to the additional cost.

I agree. The Quality of CZ is unreal. The only problem I have had from them was a wooden stock on a CZ550 American. It would not hold Zero until I re-bedded it and re-floated it. That can happen with anybody's wood stocks so I do not hold that against them.

[LDBennett]

NEVER EVER tell the manufacturer of a gun that you intend to return for repair that you reload for it. Every instruction book for guns that I have ever seen clearly says the warrantee is void if you shoot reloads.

But how could the chamber be bent? The chamber is reamed by a rotating cutter. There is no way the chamber could have a crook in it from poor reaming. Now if someone bent the barrel when they installed the barrel in the receiver that might be possible. Ruger should know this and common sense would dictate that it must have been done at assembly not from shoting reloads.

I have a few Ruger guns, both revolvers and rifles but none have ever had to go back for repair. My single shots are not very accurate due to a design flaw in how the front handguard is mounted. My Model 77 in 243 never shot all that well so I re-barreled it and it does bette now. My Volquero Bisley doesn't shoot to point of aim. Ruger is not on the top of my list.

LDBennett

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by LDBennett

NEVER EVER tell the manufacturer of a gun that you intend to return for repair that you reload for it. Every instruction book for guns that I have ever seen clearly says the warrantee is void if you shoot reloads.

But how could the chamber be bent? The chamber is reamed by a rotating cutter. There is no way the chamber could have a crook in it from poor reaming. Now if someone bent the barrel when they installed the barrel in the receiver that might be possible. Ruger should know this and common sense would dictate that it must have been done at assembly not from shoting reloads.

I have a few Ruger guns, both revolvers and rifles but none have ever had to go back for repair. My single shots are not very accurate due to a design flaw in how the front handguard is mounted. My Model 77 in 243 never shot all that well so I re-barreled it and it does bette now. My Volquero Bisley doesn't shoot to point of aim. Ruger is not on the top of my list.

LDBennett

I have no idea how the chamber was bent. That is the mystery to me. I cut chambers in rifles myself. In my mind, it is a physical impossibility to manufacture a rifle with a bent chamber. I have had problems with a Remington 700 that came from the factory with an oversized chamber. I sent them my fired reloaded ammo that had split case shoulders. I told them what the load was, and they were cool about it. They re-barreled the rifle with no questions asked. They did not in the least bit care I was shooting handloaded ammo in my rifle.
Back to the Ruger rifle. The only thing I can possibly imagine is that for some reason they had to heat the barrel and take it off during the mfg. process. I bent the chamber in an ultra light vanguard rifle doing this. I actually bent a lot more than the chamber, but that is beyond the scope of this discussion. I was trying to get the barrel off a 7mm rem mag to ream it to 7STW and it would not come off. A lot of heat and a big pull bar later, we had a bent chamber and ended up going back with a custom barrel. I talked to a highly respected rifle builder that told me he had bent the action on several vangards trying to get the barrel off, but he had never bent the barrel. Howa obviously does a good job of screwing their barrels on.

[okiefired]

CZ's reputation has been climbing steadily for several years now (as it should) along with the price. They continue to be a bargin. I have a 24.8" barreled 452 (22lr) scoped, my pard has a 223 chambered set trigger, both are lazers. I'm lookin to buy a 30'06 in a lighter weight for hunting in the next year.....thinkin it will be a CZ. Buy with confidence.

okie

edited to say I just noticed how old this thread is.