Need Info on Iver Johnson Hammerless Revolver - Page 3 - The Firearms Forum

acsitler · 11-07-2011, 09:13 AM

I inherited from my Grandfather a nickel-plated hammerless top break Iver Johnson .32 with a 3 inch barrel. I have been searching a lot on line for information about this particular gun. The markings on the top of the barrel rib are as follows:

IVER JOHNSON'S ARMS & CYCLE WORKS FITCHBURG. MASS.U.S.A.
PAT'D.APR.6.86.FEB.15.87.MAY10.87.MAR.13.88.AUG.25.96 PAT'S PENDING

I also removed the grip and found the serial number to be: B 98962

It is also free wheeling and has a leaf spring.

Am I correct that it is the Second Model made between 1897 and 1899, and therefore is designed for black powder? Does anyone have any more specific information? I would greatly appreciate any more information. Thank you.

acsitler · 11-07-2011, 09:17 AM

Here is a picture.

hrf · 11-07-2011, 09:27 AM

Welcome to the forum.

The second model small frame hammerless was made 1897-1908, and your B98962 was made in 1902, for black powder .32 S&W ammo.

acsitler · 11-07-2011, 10:31 AM

From other sources I have seen, the variation with the MAR.13.88 patent date have a D prefix on the serial number. Does it make sense for this piece to have that patent date and a B prefix?

Thank you very much for your help.

hrf · 11-07-2011, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acsitler

From other sources I have seen, the variation with the MAR.13.88 patent date have a D prefix on the serial number. Does it make sense for this piece to have that patent date and a B prefix?

Thank you very much for your help.

? - The D prefix was used on the .38 hammerless, but your post lists it as a .32

hdadair · 11-12-2011, 10:13 AM

Ok, I also have a nickled, looks more like chrome pistol. The markings on the bottom of the handle are as follows...."Pat. June 16, 96. Aug 25, 96 Pat's Pending"

Also I have removed the grip and found the Serial Number B25834.

It is Hammerless with the safety in the trigger, 5-shot. My main questions are date of manufacture and what type of ammo, modern or black powder?

Thank You.

hrf · 11-12-2011, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdadair

Ok, I also have a nickled, looks more like chrome pistol. The markings on the bottom of the handle are as follows...."Pat. June 16, 96. Aug 25, 96 Pat's Pending"

Also I have removed the grip and found the Serial Number B25834.

It is Hammerless with the safety in the trigger, 5-shot. My main questions are date of manufacture and what type of ammo, modern or black powder?

Thank You.

Welcome to the forum.

If you're certain of the B serial no. prefix, your small frame .32 was made in 1900. However, the book lists 1905-06 as years the butt was marked as you list, and the prefix those years was the letter O.
Either way, it's a black powder gun.

fuzebox40 · 11-12-2011, 12:51 PM

hrf, It looks likes it might fall under Large Frame Safety Hammerless 1906, if it's a "R" being mistaken for a "B". That would agree with the patent dates.

hrf · 11-12-2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzebox40

hrf, It looks likes it might fall under Large Frame Safety Hammerless 1906, if it's a "R" being mistaken for a "B". That would agree with the patent dates.

You're right FB, and he didn't list caliber, so a more likely prefix letter error.

dawg · 11-14-2011, 01:11 PM

I have an Iver Johnson hammerless revolver serial number D 60142.

This pistol originally belonged to my grandfather Chesley Thomas Boykin (15 Aug 1890 -1 Aug 1952). Chesley passed this pistol to his son, my father, Johnell Boykin (16 August 1938-22 Oct 2011). Upon his death on 22 October 2011, my father passed the pistol to me for safe keeping within the family.

Can anyone tell me the date it was made and any other information about this particular pistol. I would like as much info as I can get so that when I pass it down it's history will follow it.

It is a Top Break, 5 Shot .38 (I think) S&W Caliber Revolver with a Double Top Post Barrel Latch System and Coil Hammer Spring. The Serial Number on this pistol (found under the left hand grip, under the trigger guard and, when broken open, under the barrel near the latch) is D 60142

Thanks!!

hrf · 11-14-2011, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawg

I have an Iver Johnson hammerless revolver serial number D 60142.

This pistol originally belonged to my grandfather Chesley Thomas Boykin (15 Aug 1890 -1 Aug 1952). Chesley passed this pistol to his son, my father, Johnell Boykin (16 August 1938-22 Oct 2011). Upon his death on 22 October 2011, my father passed the pistol to me for safe keeping within the family.

Can anyone tell me the date it was made and any other information about this particular pistol. I would like as much info as I can get so that when I pass it down it's history will follow it.

It is a Top Break, 5 Shot .38 (I think) S&W Caliber Revolver with a Double Top Post Barrel Latch System and Coil Hammer Spring. The Serial Number on this pistol (found under the left hand grip, under the trigger guard and, when broken open, under the barrel near the latch) is D 60142

Thanks!!

See your other post.

soldiercowboy · 01-03-2012, 08:35 PM

I have an Iver Johnson Safety Automatic DA Hammerless that belonged to my Great Grandfather. I'd like to clean it and repair it. It's .32 cal. top break, five shot. Serial # looks to be H22286 on left side of grip, and under rear sight. Iver Johnson Arms, & Cycle Works Fitchburg Mass. U.S.A. on top of barrel. Pat'd Apr 6 86, Feb 15 87, May 10 87, Mar 13 88, Aug, (found bottom of grip). Needs new grips, and some internal work. I'd like to know when it was made, where can I get parts for it, and is there a repair manual out there? I'd really like to put it away in working condition. Any info on this firearm would be very helpful.

hrf · 01-03-2012, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soldiercowboy

I have an Iver Johnson Safety Automatic DA Hammerless that belonged to my Great Grandfather. I'd like to clean it and repair it. It's .32 cal. top break, five shot. Serial # looks to be H22286 on left side of grip, and under rear sight. Iver Johnson Arms, & Cycle Works Fitchburg Mass. U.S.A. on top of barrel. Pat'd Apr 6 86, Feb 15 87, May 10 87, Mar 13 88, Aug, (found bottom of grip). Needs new grips, and some internal work. I'd like to know when it was made, where can I get parts for it, and is there a repair manual out there? I'd really like to put it away in working condition. Any info on this firearm would be very helpful.

Welcome to the forum. You have a black powder small frame second model .32 Hammerless made in 1903.

A few parts are available at http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/...spx?catid=3870

Replica grips for most of the I. J. topbreaks are listed at http://search.store.yahoo.net/yhst-1...2Fnsearch.html

Unless you have a lot of patience, it would be best to have a gunsmith do the repairs.

soldiercowboy · 01-04-2012, 10:49 AM

Thanks for the info it'll be very helpful. I'm retired now, so got plenty of time. And patience I have when it comes to working on my harley, or on my firearms. I've built a few, and repaired a couple hundred guns. This is a hobby I truely enjoy. So I'll try it myself, this is how I learn about the guns I have. It took 2 days with WD-40 to get all parts moving again, another 3 to get most of the surface rust off. Got the trigger working after a couple hours, Just takes time. Again thanks for the help, resource is allows one of the first things I do when I take on one of these jobs.

soldiercowboy · 01-04-2012, 10:50 AM

Sorry that should have been research.

Greyhawk1966 · 04-04-2012, 11:41 AM

Hello,

I have an Iver Johnson hammerless, double action revolver and could use some details about it.

Serial Number B18553. (SN also on bottom of trigger guard and beneath overhang above cylinder: Number only, no "B" prefix). 5 Shot. 3.25 inch barrel.

2 lines on top of barrel: Line 1: IVER JOHNSON'S ARMS & CYCLE WORKS
Line 2: FITCHBURG MASS. U.S.A.

2 Lines on bottom of grip: Line 1: JUNE16.96.AUG25.96.
Line 2: T.16.04. PATS PENDING.

Reading through this thread I'm guessing it is a 38S&W.

Here is a pic of it.

Thanks for any help.

hrf · 04-04-2012, 12:38 PM

Welcome to the forum.

You have a third model made in 1910 for the .32 S&W smokeless powder cartridge. It appears to be in above average shape and can be fired with current .32 S&W ammo (the short one). Do not fire it with .32 ACP rounds, which will also chamber.

Greyhawk1966 · 04-04-2012, 02:54 PM

Thanks for the info hrf.

Abejero · 01-20-2013, 07:40 PM

In 2008 I was visiting my cousin in Joplin. She was 88 at the time. We were discussing firearms when she said she had one and promptly got up and retrieved this one. It was carefully wrapped in a silk scarf and stuffed in a nylon sock. Here story was as follows:

In the late 1800s her grandfather (my great-great uncle) had a hardware store in St. Louis. As you know, in 1904 St. Louis had the World’s Fair. During the construction period (about 6 years) and the two years of operation, this added over 20,000 day workers to the local population. When the Fair ended in 1906, there was a sudden large unemployment. As the hardware store was in downtown St. Louis and crime took an upturn, he purchased this weapon as protection for the store. When the store closed in the late 30’s, he gave the gun to her and she had it stored away ever since.

I purchased the W.E Goforth book but I am still stumped. What I know is that it is a top opening, hammerless, .38 caliber that shoots .38 Short Colt ammunition very accurately. The serial number on the trigger guard is 65202 and on the frame is D 65202. What may look like scratches in the pictures is really just light reflections. It is really a clean firearm inside and out as are the grips. Had a problem early on with misfires but the gunsmith at the local range said all he had to do was move the spring from the original first spot to the second spot and that there were a couple more so I guess it is good for a couple hundred more years.

Any help with actual date and model would be appreciated. I thought it might be a third model but that would be too late; although her memory could have been off a bit too?

Thanks,
Tom

hrf · 01-20-2013, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abejro

In 2008 I was visiting my cousin in Joplin. She was 88 at the time. We were discussing firearms when she said she had one and promptly got up and retrieved this one. It was carefully wrapped in a silk scarf and stuffed in a nylon sock. Here story was as follows:

In the late 1800s her grandfather (my great-great uncle) had a hardware store in St. Louis. As you know, in 1904 St. Louis had the World’s Fair. During the construction period (about 6 years) and the two years of operation, this added over 20,000 day workers to the local population. When the Fair ended in 1906, there was a sudden large unemployment. As the hardware store was in downtown St. Louis and crime took an upturn, he purchased this weapon as protection for the store. When the store closed in the late 30’s, he gave the gun to her and she had it stored away ever since.

I purchased the W.E Goforth book but I am still stumped. What I know is that it is a top opening, hammerless, .38 caliber that shoots .38 Short Colt ammunition very accurately. The serial number on the trigger guard is 65202 and on the frame is D 65202. What may look like scratches in the pictures is really just light reflections. It is really a clean firearm inside and out as are the grips. Had a problem early on with misfires but the gunsmith at the local range said all he had to do was move the spring from the original first spot to the second spot and that there were a couple more so I guess it is good for a couple hundred more years.

Any help with actual date and model would be appreciated. I thought it might be a third model but that would be too late; although her memory could have been off a bit too?

Thanks,
Tom

Welcome to TFF.

The 3rd Models started in 1909, and it is a 3rd model, made in 1916.

However, it is .38 S&W caliber, not .38 Short Colt caliber:

The .38 S&W round has a slightly larger case diameter than .38 Short Colt, and you may have noticed swelled cases?

Abejero · 01-21-2013, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrf

Welcome to TFF.

The 3rd Models started in 1909, and it is a 3rd model, made in 1916.

However, it is .38 S&W caliber, not .38 Short Colt caliber:

The .38 S&W round has a slightly larger case diameter than .38 Short Colt, and you may have noticed swelled cases?

Thanks for that info. As I said, she was pushing 90 at the time.

I tried the S&W first but, at about 25 feet, they put slots in the target instead of holes. A wee bit hot? I switched to Colt ammunition and it does holes instead of slots. I have had no issues with cases.

Remington Express 38 Short Colt 125 Grain Lead Round Nose is what I bought.

Abejero · 01-23-2013, 08:40 AM

I found the listings on page 48 of the W.E Goforth book but thought I would point out a couple of variations. The book shows the addition of asterisks on the top of the Top of the Barrel before and after the Iver Johnson Arms and Cycle Works name but not before and after the Fitchburg Mass. Mine also has asterisks there. Also, the book makes a point of the patent marks on the Bottom of Butt Strap for the 1913 to 1917 Second Variation to have two patents listed. Then, for the Third Variation, 1918-1934, only the Patent Nov 17, 08. Mine only has the single patent date. Just thought I would pass those pieces of info on. Again, thanks for all the help.

Pistolutah · 02-01-2013, 03:54 PM

I have a Iver Johnson 38 S&W that was my fathers and want to know if I can use smokeless ammo. The Serial number is H59896. Can anyone tell me what year it was made and if it is safe to use modern ammo?

hrf · 02-01-2013, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistolutah

I have a Iver Johnson 38 S&W that was my fathers and want to know if I can use smokeless ammo. The Serial number is H59896. Can anyone tell me what year it was made and if it is safe to use modern ammo?

Welcome to TFF.

Serial H59896 identifies a large frame hammer third model made in 1923. If in proper operating condition it would be safe with current .38 S&W ammo (not .38 Special)

Pistolutah · 02-04-2013, 12:27 PM

Thank you for your help! I feel much safer now!
I do have a second question. Would you know if I can put a larger grip (secondary market type) on this handgun? I have a larger hand and this grip is very small for my hand. If so, would you recommend any specific companies/sites where I might want to look along with what I would specifically be asking for with respect to the the correct type of grip?

Thank you again!

11-07-2011, 09:13 AM	#51
acsitler Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 3	Re: Need Info on Iver Johnson Hammerless Revolver I inherited from my Grandfather a nickel-plated hammerless top break Iver Johnson .32 with a 3 inch barrel. I have been searching a lot on line for information about this particular gun. The markings on the top of the barrel rib are as follows: IVER JOHNSON'S ARMS & CYCLE WORKS FITCHBURG. MASS.U.S.A. PAT'D.APR.6.86.FEB.15.87.MAY10.87.MAR.13.88.AUG.25.96 PAT'S PENDING I also removed the grip and found the serial number to be: B 98962 It is also free wheeling and has a leaf spring. Am I correct that it is the Second Model made between 1897 and 1899, and therefore is designed for black powder? Does anyone have any more specific information? I would greatly appreciate any more information. Thank you.

11-07-2011, 09:17 AM	#52
acsitler Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 3	Re: Need Info on Iver Johnson Hammerless Revolver Here is a picture. Attached Images

11-07-2011, 09:27 AM	#53
hrf Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,277	Re: Need Info on Iver Johnson Hammerless Revolver Welcome to the forum. The second model small frame hammerless was made 1897-1908, and your B98962 was made in 1902, for black powder .32 S&W ammo.

11-07-2011, 10:31 AM	#54
acsitler Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 3	Re: Need Info on Iver Johnson Hammerless Revolver From other sources I have seen, the variation with the MAR.13.88 patent date have a D prefix on the serial number. Does it make sense for this piece to have that patent date and a B prefix? Thank you very much for your help.

11-12-2011, 10:13 AM	#56
hdadair Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 1	Re: Need Info on Iver Johnson Hammerless Revolver Ok, I also have a nickled, looks more like chrome pistol. The markings on the bottom of the handle are as follows...."Pat. June 16, 96. Aug 25, 96 Pat's Pending" Also I have removed the grip and found the Serial Number B25834. It is Hammerless with the safety in the trigger, 5-shot. My main questions are date of manufacture and what type of ammo, modern or black powder? Thank You.

11-12-2011, 12:51 PM	#58
fuzebox40 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Apple Valley, Ca. Contributor Posts: 1,485	Re: Need Info on Iver Johnson Hammerless Revolver hrf, It looks likes it might fall under Large Frame Safety Hammerless 1906, if it's a "R" being mistaken for a "B". That would agree with the patent dates.

11-14-2011, 01:11 PM	#60
dawg Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 2	Need Info on Iver Johnson Hammerless Revolver I have an Iver Johnson hammerless revolver serial number D 60142. This pistol originally belonged to my grandfather Chesley Thomas Boykin (15 Aug 1890 -1 Aug 1952). Chesley passed this pistol to his son, my father, Johnell Boykin (16 August 1938-22 Oct 2011). Upon his death on 22 October 2011, my father passed the pistol to me for safe keeping within the family. Can anyone tell me the date it was made and any other information about this particular pistol. I would like as much info as I can get so that when I pass it down it's history will follow it. It is a Top Break, 5 Shot .38 (I think) S&W Caliber Revolver with a Double Top Post Barrel Latch System and Coil Hammer Spring. The Serial Number on this pistol (found under the left hand grip, under the trigger guard and, when broken open, under the barrel near the latch) is D 60142 Thanks!!

01-03-2012, 08:35 PM	#62
soldiercowboy Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 3	Re: Need Info on Iver Johnson Hammerless Revolver I have an Iver Johnson Safety Automatic DA Hammerless that belonged to my Great Grandfather. I'd like to clean it and repair it. It's .32 cal. top break, five shot. Serial # looks to be H22286 on left side of grip, and under rear sight. Iver Johnson Arms, & Cycle Works Fitchburg Mass. U.S.A. on top of barrel. Pat'd Apr 6 86, Feb 15 87, May 10 87, Mar 13 88, Aug, (found bottom of grip). Needs new grips, and some internal work. I'd like to know when it was made, where can I get parts for it, and is there a repair manual out there? I'd really like to put it away in working condition. Any info on this firearm would be very helpful.

01-04-2012, 10:49 AM	#64
soldiercowboy Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 3	Re: Need Info on Iver Johnson Hammerless Revolver Thanks for the info it'll be very helpful. I'm retired now, so got plenty of time. And patience I have when it comes to working on my harley, or on my firearms. I've built a few, and repaired a couple hundred guns. This is a hobby I truely enjoy. So I'll try it myself, this is how I learn about the guns I have. It took 2 days with WD-40 to get all parts moving again, another 3 to get most of the surface rust off. Got the trigger working after a couple hours, Just takes time. Again thanks for the help, resource is allows one of the first things I do when I take on one of these jobs.

01-04-2012, 10:50 AM	#65
soldiercowboy Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 3	Re: Need Info on Iver Johnson Hammerless Revolver Sorry that should have been research.

04-04-2012, 11:41 AM	#66
Greyhawk1966 Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2	Re: Need Info on Iver Johnson Hammerless Revolver Hello, I have an Iver Johnson hammerless, double action revolver and could use some details about it. Serial Number B18553. (SN also on bottom of trigger guard and beneath overhang above cylinder: Number only, no "B" prefix). 5 Shot. 3.25 inch barrel. 2 lines on top of barrel: Line 1: IVER JOHNSON'S ARMS & CYCLE WORKS Line 2: FITCHBURG MASS. U.S.A. 2 Lines on bottom of grip: Line 1: JUNE16.96.AUG25.96. Line 2: T.16.04. PATS PENDING. Reading through this thread I'm guessing it is a 38S&W. Here is a pic of it. Thanks for any help. Attached Images

04-04-2012, 12:38 PM	#67
hrf Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,277	Re: Need Info on Iver Johnson Hammerless Revolver Welcome to the forum. You have a third model made in 1910 for the .32 S&W smokeless powder cartridge. It appears to be in above average shape and can be fired with current .32 S&W ammo (the short one). Do not fire it with .32 ACP rounds, which will also chamber.

04-04-2012, 02:54 PM	#68
Greyhawk1966 Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2	Re: Need Info on Iver Johnson Hammerless Revolver Thanks for the info hrf.

01-20-2013, 07:40 PM	#69
Abejero Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 3	Re: Need Info on Iver Johnson Hammerless Revolver In 2008 I was visiting my cousin in Joplin. She was 88 at the time. We were discussing firearms when she said she had one and promptly got up and retrieved this one. It was carefully wrapped in a silk scarf and stuffed in a nylon sock. Here story was as follows: In the late 1800s her grandfather (my great-great uncle) had a hardware store in St. Louis. As you know, in 1904 St. Louis had the World’s Fair. During the construction period (about 6 years) and the two years of operation, this added over 20,000 day workers to the local population. When the Fair ended in 1906, there was a sudden large unemployment. As the hardware store was in downtown St. Louis and crime took an upturn, he purchased this weapon as protection for the store. When the store closed in the late 30’s, he gave the gun to her and she had it stored away ever since. I purchased the W.E Goforth book but I am still stumped. What I know is that it is a top opening, hammerless, .38 caliber that shoots .38 Short Colt ammunition very accurately. The serial number on the trigger guard is 65202 and on the frame is D 65202. What may look like scratches in the pictures is really just light reflections. It is really a clean firearm inside and out as are the grips. Had a problem early on with misfires but the gunsmith at the local range said all he had to do was move the spring from the original first spot to the second spot and that there were a couple more so I guess it is good for a couple hundred more years. Any help with actual date and model would be appreciated. I thought it might be a third model but that would be too late; although her memory could have been off a bit too? Thanks, Tom

01-23-2013, 08:40 AM	#72
Abejero Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 3	Re: Need Info on Iver Johnson Hammerless Revolver I found the listings on page 48 of the W.E Goforth book but thought I would point out a couple of variations. The book shows the addition of asterisks on the top of the Top of the Barrel before and after the Iver Johnson Arms and Cycle Works name but not before and after the Fitchburg Mass. Mine also has asterisks there. Also, the book makes a point of the patent marks on the Bottom of Butt Strap for the 1913 to 1917 Second Variation to have two patents listed. Then, for the Third Variation, 1918-1934, only the Patent Nov 17, 08. Mine only has the single patent date. Just thought I would pass those pieces of info on. Again, thanks for all the help.

02-01-2013, 03:54 PM	#73
Pistolutah Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 3	Re: Need Info on Iver Johnson 38 S&W I have a Iver Johnson 38 S&W that was my fathers and want to know if I can use smokeless ammo. The Serial number is H59896. Can anyone tell me what year it was made and if it is safe to use modern ammo?

02-04-2013, 12:27 PM	#75
Pistolutah Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 3	Re: Need Info on Iver Johnson Hammerless Revolver Thank you for your help! I feel much safer now! I do have a second question. Would you know if I can put a larger grip (secondary market type) on this handgun? I have a larger hand and this grip is very small for my hand. If so, would you recommend any specific companies/sites where I might want to look along with what I would specifically be asking for with respect to the the correct type of grip? Thank you again!