H&R Sportsman 22 LR

[Old Gun Guy]

Thanks Jim!

[Jim Hauff]

Old Guy - don't thank me until I get the job done!

[TheCollector210]

I am lookinmg at a H&R 9 shot 22 revolver and referred to by the seller as a Harrington & Richardson 22 Special 9-shot Revolver the SN is 6 digit starting with 571XXX where may I find info on this revolver, the worse thing about it is missing the main spring or what I call the hammer spring

[Jim Hauff]

TheCollector,
From the SERIAL NUMBER - it sounds like you have 4th Variation (1933 to '38) it should have the rimmed saftety cylinder with patent no.), one piece checkered, walnut grip with screw fastener through the back into the back strap (known as the 'Rice' style grip - bird's head shaped) and firing pin on hammer nose. If your's doesn't have these attributes, let me know.
The "22 SPECIAL" Model was introduced circa 1926 as a 7 shot in .22 rf. It seems to have derived from the "AUTO EJECTING" Model (1885 - 194?) of that time span. Around 1928, H&R modified this model to hold 9 rounds of .22 rf as-well-as 7 rounds of WINCHESTER RIM FIRE (the daddy of the W MAGNUM Rim-fire.) It progress through several more changes, including the "SAFETY RIM" cylinder and was then capable of handling the smokeless/Nitro powder HIGH SPEED rounds introduced around 1930 or so.
NUMRICH Gun Part Corp. is the best source of H&R parts - but I just checked and they are out of stock on the mainspring for the 9 shot. Do a Google search using H&R parts - there are several other smaller sources - you should be able to find contact info for several of them.
Here's a pic of what I think your piece should look like (the one on the bottom):

[hogrider]

I also have an H an R Sportsman 22 pistol..............hopefully, you may be able to tell me the age of the pistol

It has these markings:

top right side of barrel:
Harrison and Richardson Arms Co.
Worcester, Mass , USA

middle right side of barrel close to the cyclinder:
22 long rifle ctc

on the cyclinder:
pat 1904
pat 2034

top left side of barrel
H & R Sportsman
double action

on the front side of the grip on the metal portion

80346

the handle is wood

gun metal is a very dark blue/black

thanks for your help

ftcrewse@yahoo.com

[Jim Hauff]

hogrider:

Sounds like you have a 1st Model 6th Variation made between 1937 and end of 1939.
With that serial number, probably mid to late 1939.
Your piece should look like the one pictured - Except for the 4" non-standard barrel.

[Jim Hauff]

I recently received an e-mail from a gentleman who reads the threads on this site, but wishes to remain anonymous, but had no objection to having his information posted to this forum. So, in the spirit of sharing and for informational purposes here's what he wrote and my return comments FWIW:

Hi Jim,
I have long admired the “top break” revolvers of years gone by.
Recently I had the opportunity to buy a collection of a little over fifty
firearms and the deal maker was the 3 Sportsman in the collection. I am
not one to join forums but I found the H&R forum that you contribute
to while looking for information. I didn’t know B. Goforth but you seem
to have taken over quite nicely.
I am not interested in the values but would like your help in dating them.
From the info on your forum I have come close on two.
Hi Harry,
Thanks for the inquiry and thanks for the kind words. Here's my "take" on your Sportsman pieces.

#1- D22370, Rice grips, adj. front sight, H&R “SPORTSMAN”—1933/34 ?
This one is most likely a 3rd Variation (1934) - confirm that the firing pin is on the hammer and there are two patent dates on the cylinder. If not, let me know - there is still some ambiguity concerning the s/n ranges of the variations in this Model - and there may be some cross over. So any info is helpful.

#2- Z18273-two piece grips—1966 ?
This is a 2nd Model (1963 = 'Z' prefix), with the new "square butt" grip frame and two grip panels. This model was made from 1953 to 1972.

#3- AT040148 same as above- ??????
This is a 3rd Model (1979 = 'AT' prefix). This model was made from 1973 to 1986 and features the transfer bar "ignition/safety system" - that will be a "bar" or thin strip of metal that raises when hammer draws back and allows hammer blow to contact the frame mounted firing pin.
By the way all of these look almost unfired
I know you didn't ask, but this info is free - no extra charge - RETAIL Values on the last two, in excellent condition (95% or better) currently is running in excess of $400 on the Internet auction sites. In fact, a couple weeks ago, a 3rd Model New In Box, unfired with box and all papers sold for slightly more than $1000 (yep that's $1K ) and another sold last week on the same site for $700 without the box and papers but in 98% condition (probably similar shape to yours) - I can't explain what happened on these auctions - I just report the numbers. LOL - certainly makes my collection worth a LOT more if those kind of prices stay around. The older piece, unfortunately - while I consider the fit and finish as well as function and accuracy, to be better than the newer pieces - are not selling at RETAIL in as high a price range. These generally are selling about $100 less than national average for the NEW ones.
Thanks in advance for any help that you may give.

[bcsdu214]

I have a H&R Sportsman model 999. I bought the gun several years ago and really dont know much about it. The serial number starts with AY. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

[Hawg]

AY is 1982.

[Jim Hauff]

bcsdu214,
Welcome to the forum.
Check out the response for post #82. Your gun should be the same as the one with serial prefix 'AT'. All else remains the same.

[Hijinx39]

Hijinx39 - I was trying to post something and my computer went down briefly. I mentioned that I owned three H & R 22's. Two of them are sportsmans. One of them is a double action western style revolver that ejects empties with the SA Frontier style ejector rod, one at a time. Currently, that model is in the gunshop due to misfires on about 3 of 9. I had previously mentioned the fact that I had a nickel plated Sportsmans model 999 which is serial HG 022489. I know that it is of the 1993 era. The gun is in very good condition with a couple of minor dings. It locks up tighter than a virgins legs. The nickel is good throughout with a little wear on the cylinder. The gun has walnut grips? I thought that this may have been nickel plated by a previous owner because I was unaware that H & R issued any in this finish during the 90's. Another H & R guy tells me that they did issue some but not many. Nonetheless, it is a sweet gun and guess what...I will shoot the daylights out of it. I also have a 1 of 999 engraved in presentatiion box with medallion. It is 999216. I mention these things only because i cannot think of a 22 revolver made that was any nicer and I believe the sportsman to be the peak of H & R's efforts at pistols. I am certain some will disagree. I will also mention another thing. Values on guns are determined only by what the market is willing to pay and is driven by short term availability. I will pay for a gun that I want and I will negotiate based on how badly I want it, not what a suggested blue book value relates. In the past, I have let $50 or $100 bucks over suggested market dissuade me from a purchase and I never saw the gun again. Regrettable decision. But then I went with my head and not my heart. Don't shoot yourself in the foot over the price of dinner and a movie.
Hyjinx39

[Jim Hauff]

Hijinx,
Have you posted re: the Nickel plated SPORTSMAN on another forum? -or was it here?
In any case - I would not be surprised that H&R 1871 would have produced a nickel plated version during that time frame. It seems they were doing just about anything to promote sales during this time. The question remains whether this is truly a factory finish - if so it, probably, would be an ELECTROLESS NICKEL finish - which would look to be matte or brushed and not polished bright and shiney (except for maybe the cylinder) and would be typical of some other usually blued guns that were so treated by NEF and H&R 1871. I'd really like to see some pics of that one.

[bcsdu214]

Thanks for the help Jim

[Jim Hauff]

bcsdu214,
You're welcome - thanks for thanking.
Anything further on your Sportsman?????? I'd like to know for future reference, if you're willing to share.

[OKLAHOMAMOSES]

Jim, what a wealth of knowledge. This forum is lucky to have you on here. I have owned one of these top break nine shot d/a's for over twenty years and have shot over 500 rounds through it, just recently had it at gunsmith do to missfires and not cycling in double action. Bought a new hammer and gunsmith fabricated a new cylindar guide as well as adding a mod 1911 trigger and hammer spring, works like a new one. Never gave much thought to age until reading this forum, gun is nickel plated and s# appears to be 10421 or 70421, can't tell wheather it's a seven or a one with a gouge mark on the first digit. gun was passed from three different teenage boys before landing in my lap, pt # on cyl and ejector star are 124, I love this pistol ! Any info on age would be appreciated, God bless.

[Jim Hauff]

OKmoses,
Welcome to the forum - stick around and contribute.
If you remove the cylinder - break open the action, lift the latch - hold it open and either pull or unscrew the cylinder from the arbor (depends upon model) and you will see the "real" serial number. There is a difference in year of manuf. and variation between the s/n starting with "1" as opposed to the one starting with "7" - so the actual (include letter prefix if present) s/n is important.
The NICKEL finish is most likely after market.
The methods your smith performed to get your gun up and running in very interesting. Which model 1911 trigger and hammer spring did he use?

[Kestral]

To B.Goforth, hope I`m not taking up your time,but could you date my H&R Sportsman,S18798. It has this no both under the L/H grip which is all one piece,plus near the base of the front grip strap. It is also marked Not English Make on the rt frame just above the front of the trigger guard.Many thanks Kestral.

[Jim Hauff]

Kestral,
I'm temporarily filling in for Bill Goforth (he passed away on Jan. 15 of this year) - You have a SINGLE ACTION SPORTSMAN (later called the Model 199) - this from the 'S' letter code prefix in the serial number. That serial number indicates production in 1935-36.
The stamping on the side "NOT ENGLISH MAKE" indicates it was exported from the U.S. and imported into Great Britain at some point.
I would enjoy seeing some pictures of that piece, including any Brit. proof marks that may be found on the barrel (near junction with frame), cylinder flutes, rear of frame near hammer slot - all maybe found on the left side. Condition and stampings will influence the value.

[OKLAHOMAMOSES]

Originally Posted by Jim Hauff

OKmoses,
Welcome to the forum - stick around and contribute.
If you remove the cylinder - break open the action, lift the latch - hold it open and either pull or unscrew the cylinder from the arbor (depends upon model) and you will see the "real" serial number. There is a difference in year of manuf. and variation between the s/n starting with "1" as opposed to the one starting with "7" - so the actual (include letter prefix if present) s/n is important.
The NICKEL finish is most likely after market.
The methods your smith performed to get your gun up and running in very interesting. Which model 1911 trigger and hammer spring did he use?

Thanks Jim, sn#78421 with no letter prefix. The only piece on the gun not in nickel is the hammer that was replaced from numerich, it appears to be nickel as it has a finish that almost looks stainless ? It also has the one peice black plastic grips, keyhole barrel and looks to be adustable front and rear sights with set screws, I will ask my smith what the 1911 parts were, thanks again.

[Kestral]

Good Day to you Jim,I`m sorry to hear that Bill is no longer with us,but I feel sure he is still keeping tabs on all his past work, thank you for continuing with supplying us with all this valuable info.My birthday is Nov 1936,and I was hoping that my Sportsman was the same age as me,it seems near enough,so I will never move it on whilst I`m still around.The working condition is excellent,but the original owner had it wrapped in chamois leather which has left speckles on the barrel,each chamber has Brit Proof marks,plus proof marks on L/H side of barrel throat area. Regret I do not have a very good camera,so I hope the 2 pics attached will show enough detail.Best regards Kestral.

[Jim Hauff]

OKmoses,
You're welcome and thanks for thanking.
Your piece with a serial number in the 70,000 range was most likely made in early to mid 1938 - at that time, NO letter prefixes were in use. I've seen pre 1940 pieces with serial numbers as high as 89000 and change - so projecting backwards we can 'guess' at 1938.
There is NO available record of Sportsman revolvers being factory Nickel plated at that time not in H&Rs literature nor in their catalogues. It IS possible that some were done on a special order basis - but that is in question due to the plated trigger. I'm pretty much sure that your gun was plated after market. Black plastic grips are probably after market, also. Up to the 1940 period, checkered walnut is listed as the grip material.
Also, it appears from the records that H&R never offered any firearm made of stainless steel, especially that early - most guns made of stainless made appearances in the mid 1970s and into the 1980s and on.
Waiting for word on the 1911 parts - I'm sure more than one of us is interested in finding out how those were worked into an H&R

[Jim Hauff]

Kestral,
You're welcome and thanks for the kind words. I'm trying my best to keep up the H&R Information Dept.
Thanks for providing the extra info and pics. With that serial number (S18798) there's a very good chance that your SA SPORTSMAN was made in 1936 (1937 at the latest) - so it's most likely as "old" as you are. LOL. It's a 4th Variation - hammer mounted firing pin, cylinder release on right side, small lettering on cylinder PAT. #s, straight trigger, etc. There's still a bit of research to be done on this variation of the Single Action - not too many seen so serial number date is scarce.
It's interesting to note that the British proof and view marks on your piece are in the same locations as found on one of my AUTO EJECTORs.
How's the weather in the Channel Isles???

[Hijinx39]

Jim Hauff I feel terrible that it has been three weeks since you responded to me. I will send pictures of both of my sportsmans if you tell me how to do it. I have a digital camera and I can download pictures onto my computer but how do I get them on this thread? I'm not very good at this high tech stuff. The channel islands guy is only 3 years older than me but he sent pictures didn't he. LOL
Hijinx.

[Hijinx39]

Kestral
I never use another man's name in a message unless I acknowledge to him somehow that I have done so. Obviously, if you read this post, you will also read the one I sent to Jim Hauff. Apart from our age (I was born in 39) we have a common interest in H&R pistols. I envy your Channel Island background. Did you ever read Night of the Fox by Jack Higgins. It was set in your area. Good book.
Hijinx

[Hawg]

Hinjinx, open a photobucket account, it's free. Upload your pics and once uploaded copy the IMG tag at the bottom. Paste it in with your text and viola instant pic. It will be easier to understand once you get into pb.