No Commencement Prayer - The Firearms Forum

satellite66 · 05-06-2006, 04:32 PM

I read this on another site and had to share it.

NO Commencement Prayer?

They walked in tandem, each of the ninety-two students filing into the already crowded auditorium. With rich maroon gowns flowing and the traditional caps, they looked almost as grown up as they felt.

Dads swallowed hard behind broad smiles, and Moms freely brushed away tears.

This class would not pray during the commencements ----- not by choice but because of a recent court ruling prohibiting it.

The principal and several students were careful to stay within the guidelines allowed by the ruling. They gave inspirational and challenging speeches, but no one mentioned divine guidance and no one asked for blessings on the graduates or their families.

The speeches were nice, but they were routine......until the final speech received a standing ovation.

A solitary student walked proudly to the microphone. He stood still and silent for just a moment, and then, it happened. All 92 students, every single one of them, suddenly SNEEZED!!!!

The student on stage simply looked at the audience and said, " GOD BLESS YOU, each and every one of you!" And he walked off stage...

The audience exploded into applause.

Marlin T · 05-06-2006, 05:43 PM

Now that is a great story. I really hope that it is true!!!!!!!

These are the future of the USA, and yes God bless them.

Bernie109 · 05-06-2006, 06:27 PM

"You worship me with your lips but your hearts are far from me" Sayeth the lord. Why bother with this lip service? How many teens are unwed mothers in this class? How many have had abortions? How many use drugs or go drinking? If we are not going to obey the word of God, why pay lip service?

southernshooter · 05-06-2006, 09:54 PM

That is a awesome story

meandmy45s · 05-07-2006, 04:49 AM

Nice story...whether it is true or not.

Green · 05-07-2006, 09:22 AM

Just like our forefathers wanted. Separation of church and state!

Marlin T · 05-07-2006, 11:54 AM

Marlin T, the rules say no personal attacks. So green all I have to say is post the entire statment of one of the founding fathers that says that there should be a seperation of church and state. In full context.

But lile last time, I have hope in you that once again you will fail in a simple defence of your position.

clues troll

Marlin · 05-07-2006, 03:22 PM

I'm not aware of ANYONE stating anything alluding to SEPARATION of Church and State, especially of the founding fathers.

There are many, many allusions to not having a federally dictated specific religion as England had, however.

Green · 05-07-2006, 06:32 PM

I do believe you should do a little bit of reading. You guys are like the teeny-bopper graduating HS. and asking for a good job. Look it up. Work for it.If you don't come up with anything, (perhaps)i'll help ya. Jeeezzzzzzz! With all the education here it shouldn't be all that hard. As a starter,The Constitution has NO mention of God or religion. Just one more for now.

"The number,the industry,and the morality of the priesthood,& the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of Church from State".- James Madison,
Father of the Constitution

satellite66 · 05-07-2006, 06:35 PM

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

rosierita · 05-07-2006, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marlin

I'm not aware of ANYONE stating anything alluding to SEPARATION of Church and State, especially of the founding fathers.

There are many, many allusions to not having a federally dictated specific religion as England had, however.

right on brotha.

Bernie109 · 05-07-2006, 08:01 PM

While the founding Fathers did not specify what the faith of the people should be, they did make statements on what kind of people the nation should consist of.

John Adams warned "The Constitution was written for a moral God fearing people. It is wholly inadaquate for the governemnt of any other"

George Washington warned "Do not think that you can have national morality apart from religious principle"

George Washington also said "Let no man call himself an American who would dare subvert the word of God".

Thomas Payne was the nations first militant Athiest. He wanted the Constitution to outlaw all religion and have America as a "God free zone"
Ben Franklin, who was not what one would call Faithful talked Thomas Payne out of it. Ben Franklin declared "The only thing more terrifying than what man is capable of in the guise of religion is what he is capaple of when totally free from religion."

The Church should not have political power, it should be the conscience of the State. When government becomes so arrogant that it belives it can declare what God calls wrong as right and what God commands as right to be wrong, that government has signed its death warrant.

Green · 05-08-2006, 10:25 AM

I agree Bernie. Our Forefathers were for the most part good God fearing men. With a deep sense morality and love of country. One reason they left England was for freedom of religion. They were very careful not to create another 'Church of England'. Thomas Jefferson was another who believed in the separation of church and state. The religious right has been trying to force it's doctrin on all those of faith,or not of. As much as I am not a fan of the IRS, I have to give them credit (somewhat)for cracking down on these (tax exempt) churches and charities that preach politics from the pulpit. They tread dangerous ground. Keep religion out of Government and keep the governments nose out the church.It is a good way to lose our religious freedom.And I am not a fan of my tax dollars being spent on school vouchers either. I am not a scholar of the bible but I believe somewhere in Mathew,Jesus says to pray in the closet.

Green · 05-08-2006, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satellite66

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Placing the Ten Commandments (or any religious symbol etc.)on Gov. or State tax payer property is "establishing religion". On your own (private) property,that is the "free exercise thereof".

Bernie109 · 05-08-2006, 10:45 AM

WHiel Governemnt is not to establish an official Church, it IS to aknowlege that God is soverign. "There is no government that does not come from God"
Sayeth the Lord. While there should be no official state church, government is not to declare as right what God declares wrong. When government does that (Homosexual rights, abortion rights, same sex marriage) That government is a write off. When government declares that is is not bound to God and that it is not in power by the Grace of God, that government is inviting judgement.

Bernie109 · 05-08-2006, 10:50 AM

I am not a scholar of the bible but I believe somewhere in Mathew,Jesus says to pray in the closet.

True he did, but not in the context that you believe i is in. He was talking about those who pray on the street to show off their holiniess. To pray as a group for a common goal is not what Jesus was talking about here. Also, to make faith a private matter to be hidden from public views and policy, Jesus said "One does not light a lamp and place it under a rock, one lights a lamp and places it on top of the rock in order so that it can give light." Jusus refers to himself as the light of the world and we are not to practice one thing in private and another in public. If this nation is indeed a "God free zone" Then we are history. If God does not judge America, he owes Soddom & Gomoora an appology.

satellite66 · 05-08-2006, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green

Placing the Ten Commandments (or any religious symbol etc.)on Gov. or State tax payer property is "establishing religion". On your own (private) property,that is the "free exercise thereof".

According to who? An activist judge? A liberal elite? A moral relativist? The ACLU? I think the majority of Americans would disagree with you there Green. Of course that is why the battle for the supreme court is so important to the left. Why get the opinion of the people when a few judges with agendas will give you what you want?

Bernie109 · 05-08-2006, 02:22 PM

According to who? An activist judge? A liberal elite? A moral relativist? The ACLU? I think the majority of Americans would disagree with you there Green. Of course that is why the battle for the supreme court is so important to the left. Why get the opinion of the people when a few judges with agendas will give you what you want?

It becomes a question of who's theological standard we are going to follow.
The left, claiming freedom from religion, actually seeks to impose a secular theology. It is one thing to accept the will of the majority, but when the majority vote to keep marriage the way God intended it, the Left seeks to invoke thier Theological standard and claim the will of the people is wrong and that it needs to be "Fixed"

As Joshua once demanded "Choose this day whom you shall serve!"

Marlin T · 05-08-2006, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Placing the Ten Commandments (or any religious symbol etc.)on Gov. or State tax payer property is "establishing religion".

So tell me, what religion would be established just by placing the ten commandments anywhere?

Green · 05-08-2006, 05:58 PM

Well to start with,I am glad Bernie does not agree with me here. OK ALL?? We are not one troll.I stand by what I posted. The subject is one that can be a little bit of a tickler. Marlin t, The Christian religion to your Q. What purpose would the Ten Commandments being posted achieve? Most people have a pretty good knowledge of it,including those on death row. Our laws are not based on them. It is NOT against the law to worship other Gods.It's NOT against the law to keep holy the sabbath. It is NOT against the law not to honor your parents. Nor commit adultry, bear false wittness.(the religious right does it every day) nor covet your neighbors wife. The ONLY two that apply to law is killing and stealing. And long before the Ten Commandments, those two laws were observed by civilization. And Bernie,the lite and candle, Jesus meant to lead by example,practice your faith. Not pray horizontal for others to here your prayers for personal gain. Verticle,upward to God. God hears.Be it left or right, when the courts go to the right or left they impose their so-called values on ALL. All the more reason to keep the "WALL" up. Go to church. Go to the polls to vote.Keep them separate! My two fingers are tired now.

Marlin T · 05-09-2006, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Marlin t, The Christian religion to your Q.

Interesting answer, lets take a closer look at this.

Chris·tian (kr

s

ch

n)

ADJECTIVE:

Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
Showing a loving concern for others; humane.

NOUN:

One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

Ok, now I'll ask the question again.

Quote:

So tell me, what religion would be established just by placing the ten commandments anywhere?

Green · 05-09-2006, 07:52 AM

Read my whole post. It is not hard to understand. And, again,The Christian religion. Who else?

inplanotx · 05-09-2006, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Read my whole post. It is not hard to understand. And, again,The Christian religion. Who else?

Damn, and all this time reading the Bible, I thought the Ten Commandments was given to Moses on the Mount. Let's see, Moses, uhuh, I really think so, wasn't he..................., now correct me if I'm wrong...........................

HEBREW?????

DOH, YOU JUST BLEW IT THERE GREEN!!!!!!!

ibtrukn · 05-09-2006, 09:03 AM

SEMPER FI BUBBA------------

Bernie109 · 05-09-2006, 09:07 AM

Governemnt cannot establish faith. Governemnt however should reflect the faith of the people. The religious right want this to be a "Christian nation" This denotes somethking from the top down and cannot nor should not be done.
A "Nation of Christians" Is another matter. If the majority of the nations are people of faith, thier voting record should reflect that. A Christian can never vote to have governemnt redefine marriage, make adultery ok, abort unwanted babies, or call upon the governemnt to do anuthing God considers an abomination.
It is our lack of absoutes that is the root of many of our problems.
God says "You shall not steal" We say You cannot be blamed for stealing if you are poor.
God says "You shall not commit adultery," We say go ahead, jus tuse a condom
God says "You shall not murder" We say you can't be blamed for it if you rvictim deserves it.
Jesus said "There are none rightous" We say There are no bad people, only those who are not being paid enough to be good.

05-06-2006, 04:32 PM	#1
satellite66 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Central NJ Posts: 2,068	No Commencement Prayer I read this on another site and had to share it. NO Commencement Prayer? They walked in tandem, each of the ninety-two students filing into the already crowded auditorium. With rich maroon gowns flowing and the traditional caps, they looked almost as grown up as they felt. Dads swallowed hard behind broad smiles, and Moms freely brushed away tears. This class would not pray during the commencements ----- not by choice but because of a recent court ruling prohibiting it. The principal and several students were careful to stay within the guidelines allowed by the ruling. They gave inspirational and challenging speeches, but no one mentioned divine guidance and no one asked for blessings on the graduates or their families. The speeches were nice, but they were routine......until the final speech received a standing ovation. A solitary student walked proudly to the microphone. He stood still and silent for just a moment, and then, it happened. All 92 students, every single one of them, suddenly SNEEZED!!!! The student on stage simply looked at the audience and said, " GOD BLESS YOU, each and every one of you!" And he walked off stage... The audience exploded into applause. __________________ “Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not” — Thomas Jefferson. "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948 -->

05-06-2006, 05:43 PM	#2
Marlin T Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 7,857	Re: No Commencement Prayer Now that is a great story. I really hope that it is true!!!!!!! These are the future of the USA, and yes God bless them. __________________ "But the simple truth--born of experience--is that tyranny thrives best where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people." Judge Alex Kozinski - United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. - Thomas Paine Did you read todays GOOD shooting? >>>KEEPANDBEARARMS.COM <<<

05-06-2006, 06:27 PM	#3
Bernie109 Former Guest Join Date: May 2006 Location: Central CA Posts: 274	Re: No Commencement Prayer "You worship me with your lips but your hearts are far from me" Sayeth the lord. Why bother with this lip service? How many teens are unwed mothers in this class? How many have had abortions? How many use drugs or go drinking? If we are not going to obey the word of God, why pay lip service?

05-06-2006, 09:54 PM	#4
southernshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep South Mississippi Posts: 5,943	Re: No Commencement Prayer That is a awesome story __________________ Only you can see this

05-07-2006, 04:49 AM	#5
meandmy45s V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 94	Re: No Commencement Prayer Nice story...whether it is true or not.

05-07-2006, 09:22 AM	#6
Green V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The South Posts: 118	Re: No Commencement Prayer Just like our forefathers wanted. Separation of church and state!

05-07-2006, 11:54 AM	#7
Marlin T Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 7,857	Re: No Commencement Prayer Marlin T, the rules say no personal attacks. So green all I have to say is post the entire statment of one of the founding fathers that says that there should be a seperation of church and state. In full context. But lile last time, I have hope in you that once again you will fail in a simple defence of your position. clues troll __________________ "But the simple truth--born of experience--is that tyranny thrives best where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people." Judge Alex Kozinski - United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. - Thomas Paine Did you read todays GOOD shooting? >>>KEEPANDBEARARMS.COM <<<

05-07-2006, 03:22 PM	#8
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,853	Re: No Commencement Prayer I'm not aware of ANYONE stating anything alluding to SEPARATION of Church and State, especially of the founding fathers. There are many, many allusions to not having a federally dictated specific religion as England had, however. __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

05-07-2006, 06:32 PM	#9
Green V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The South Posts: 118	Re: No Commencement Prayer I do believe you should do a little bit of reading. You guys are like the teeny-bopper graduating HS. and asking for a good job. Look it up. Work for it.If you don't come up with anything, (perhaps)i'll help ya. Jeeezzzzzzz! With all the education here it shouldn't be all that hard. As a starter,The Constitution has NO mention of God or religion. Just one more for now. "The number,the industry,and the morality of the priesthood,& the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of Church from State".- James Madison, Father of the Constitution

05-07-2006, 06:35 PM	#10
satellite66 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Central NJ Posts: 2,068	Re: No Commencement Prayer Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. __________________ “Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not” — Thomas Jefferson. "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

05-07-2006, 08:01 PM	#12
Bernie109 Former Guest Join Date: May 2006 Location: Central CA Posts: 274	Re: No Commencement Prayer While the founding Fathers did not specify what the faith of the people should be, they did make statements on what kind of people the nation should consist of. John Adams warned "The Constitution was written for a moral God fearing people. It is wholly inadaquate for the governemnt of any other" George Washington warned "Do not think that you can have national morality apart from religious principle" George Washington also said "Let no man call himself an American who would dare subvert the word of God". Thomas Payne was the nations first militant Athiest. He wanted the Constitution to outlaw all religion and have America as a "God free zone" Ben Franklin, who was not what one would call Faithful talked Thomas Payne out of it. Ben Franklin declared "The only thing more terrifying than what man is capable of in the guise of religion is what he is capaple of when totally free from religion." The Church should not have political power, it should be the conscience of the State. When government becomes so arrogant that it belives it can declare what God calls wrong as right and what God commands as right to be wrong, that government has signed its death warrant.

05-08-2006, 10:25 AM	#13
Green V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The South Posts: 118	Re: No Commencement Prayer I agree Bernie. Our Forefathers were for the most part good God fearing men. With a deep sense morality and love of country. One reason they left England was for freedom of religion. They were very careful not to create another 'Church of England'. Thomas Jefferson was another who believed in the separation of church and state. The religious right has been trying to force it's doctrin on all those of faith,or not of. As much as I am not a fan of the IRS, I have to give them credit (somewhat)for cracking down on these (tax exempt) churches and charities that preach politics from the pulpit. They tread dangerous ground. Keep religion out of Government and keep the governments nose out the church.It is a good way to lose our religious freedom.And I am not a fan of my tax dollars being spent on school vouchers either. I am not a scholar of the bible but I believe somewhere in Mathew,Jesus says to pray in the closet.

05-08-2006, 10:45 AM	#15
Bernie109 Former Guest Join Date: May 2006 Location: Central CA Posts: 274	Re: No Commencement Prayer WHiel Governemnt is not to establish an official Church, it IS to aknowlege that God is soverign. "There is no government that does not come from God" Sayeth the Lord. While there should be no official state church, government is not to declare as right what God declares wrong. When government does that (Homosexual rights, abortion rights, same sex marriage) That government is a write off. When government declares that is is not bound to God and that it is not in power by the Grace of God, that government is inviting judgement.

05-08-2006, 10:50 AM	#16
Bernie109 Former Guest Join Date: May 2006 Location: Central CA Posts: 274	Re: No Commencement Prayer I am not a scholar of the bible but I believe somewhere in Mathew,Jesus says to pray in the closet. True he did, but not in the context that you believe i is in. He was talking about those who pray on the street to show off their holiniess. To pray as a group for a common goal is not what Jesus was talking about here. Also, to make faith a private matter to be hidden from public views and policy, Jesus said "One does not light a lamp and place it under a rock, one lights a lamp and places it on top of the rock in order so that it can give light." Jusus refers to himself as the light of the world and we are not to practice one thing in private and another in public. If this nation is indeed a "God free zone" Then we are history. If God does not judge America, he owes Soddom & Gomoora an appology.

05-08-2006, 02:22 PM	#18
Bernie109 Former Guest Join Date: May 2006 Location: Central CA Posts: 274	Re: No Commencement Prayer According to who? An activist judge? A liberal elite? A moral relativist? The ACLU? I think the majority of Americans would disagree with you there Green. Of course that is why the battle for the supreme court is so important to the left. Why get the opinion of the people when a few judges with agendas will give you what you want? It becomes a question of who's theological standard we are going to follow. The left, claiming freedom from religion, actually seeks to impose a secular theology. It is one thing to accept the will of the majority, but when the majority vote to keep marriage the way God intended it, the Left seeks to invoke thier Theological standard and claim the will of the people is wrong and that it needs to be "Fixed" As Joshua once demanded "Choose this day whom you shall serve!"

05-08-2006, 05:58 PM	#20
Green V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The South Posts: 118	Re: No Commencement Prayer Well to start with,I am glad Bernie does not agree with me here. OK ALL?? We are not one troll.I stand by what I posted. The subject is one that can be a little bit of a tickler. Marlin t, The Christian religion to your Q. What purpose would the Ten Commandments being posted achieve? Most people have a pretty good knowledge of it,including those on death row. Our laws are not based on them. It is NOT against the law to worship other Gods.It's NOT against the law to keep holy the sabbath. It is NOT against the law not to honor your parents. Nor commit adultry, bear false wittness.(the religious right does it every day) nor covet your neighbors wife. The ONLY two that apply to law is killing and stealing. And long before the Ten Commandments, those two laws were observed by civilization. And Bernie,the lite and candle, Jesus meant to lead by example,practice your faith. Not pray horizontal for others to here your prayers for personal gain. Verticle,upward to God. God hears.Be it left or right, when the courts go to the right or left they impose their so-called values on ALL. All the more reason to keep the "WALL" up. Go to church. Go to the polls to vote.Keep them separate! My two fingers are tired now.

05-09-2006, 07:52 AM	#22
Green V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The South Posts: 118	Re: No Commencement Prayer Read my whole post. It is not hard to understand. And, again,The Christian religion. Who else?

05-09-2006, 09:03 AM	#24
ibtrukn Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: central N.J. Posts: 4,335	Re: No Commencement Prayer SEMPER FI BUBBA------------

05-09-2006, 09:07 AM	#25
Bernie109 Former Guest Join Date: May 2006 Location: Central CA Posts: 274	Re: No Commencement Prayer Governemnt cannot establish faith. Governemnt however should reflect the faith of the people. The religious right want this to be a "Christian nation" This denotes somethking from the top down and cannot nor should not be done. A "Nation of Christians" Is another matter. If the majority of the nations are people of faith, thier voting record should reflect that. A Christian can never vote to have governemnt redefine marriage, make adultery ok, abort unwanted babies, or call upon the governemnt to do anuthing God considers an abomination. It is our lack of absoutes that is the root of many of our problems. God says "You shall not steal" We say You cannot be blamed for stealing if you are poor. God says "You shall not commit adultery," We say go ahead, jus tuse a condom God says "You shall not murder" We say you can't be blamed for it if you rvictim deserves it. Jesus said "There are none rightous" We say There are no bad people, only those who are not being paid enough to be good.