My quest for an MOA Pole... - The Firearms Forum

polishshooter · 06-07-2006, 10:03 PM

Well here is my plan of attack...feel free to give any advice you want. (In FACT I welcome it!.) I WILL turn it into an MOA rifle or die trying!

First, I WILL get it to shoot CONSISTENTLY with surplus ammo. I really don't care at this point if I get 3" at 100, but I WILL get it to shoot them CONSISTANLTLY to point of aim! I figure if the ammo is inconsistent, I STILL should get the "group" CENTERED, right? The only variable if the rifle is shooting correctly should be group SIZE I figure.

But if I get it dead ON at 25, then 6" high and to the left, CONSISTENTLY with some stringing, at 100, there MUST be something wrong with the RIFLE, right?

SO here is the plan. I WILL go step by step, shooting in between to control the changes and post results. This MAY take a while, but HEY it gets me to the range a lot, right?

Step one: (I actually started it tonight. And incidentally when I took it down, I checked closely, the ATI mount is TIGHT!) Free float the barrel.

Step two: Cut the barrel back, square it with a square and a file, and crown the bore using the brass round head machine screw in the drill trick, with polishing compound, to get rid of ANY damage to the muzzle from Warsaw Bloc hamfisted CLEANING from the muzzle! I'm not sure I'll go all the way to the end of the bayonet "step" and leave it with about a 16 1/2" kind of bull barrel, or leave about an inch or so of the "step" to maybe thread later and put on a flash hider....(I may do that with the "Scout" and go "bull" with the Pole...)

Step three: Swap scopes with the Blazer 1" 4x32 I have on my .22 currently...and if THAT doesn't do it, then go buy a new better one for it.

At THIS point if I don't get it at least shooting groups CONSISTENTLY to point of aim, I'm probably in trouble...but I think I will get there.

THEN comes step 4....working up reloads it likes to get it to MOA.....

What do you think of da plan?

polishshooter · 06-07-2006, 10:16 PM

Anyway, I did step one tonight, and free-floated the barrel, and MAY have found something...

I BELIEVE I have a warped ATI stock! First, I noticed bluing (the Permablue cold blue I used) WORN OFF in a few spots on the LEFT side of the barrel, but not on the right...

I then fabricated two shims from a small piece of 1/16th" scrap sheet aluminum I had in my junk box, and put them under the receiver lug in the stock to raise the action in the stock. I then put another two shims under the rear of the tang to keep it at the same level in the stock. (one shim didn't raise it enough, the barrel was still touching the forearm channel.)

But it looked hokey..while the front of the action didn't look bad, the rear tang was raised about 1/8" ABOVE the stock. So I pulled out first one, then both of the REAR shims, so the action is kind of rocked BACK a little on the receiver lug, with the barrel up out of the channel a little. IT still tightened down nice and tight. But the barrel was STILL touching a little.

Then I started sanding the forearm channel, which is where I started finding the warping. I could slide paper down the entire barrel IF I held a little pressure on the stock to the LEFT, but not at rest.

I noticed the RIGHT wall of the forearm channel was away from the barrel a lttle bit, but the LEFT was still touching.

But then a funny thing happened...I started filing and sanding the inside of the LEFT forearm channel ONLY, but every time I put it back together, the LEFT side still TOUCHED, but the gap in the RIGHT side got BIGGER! A HA! The stock is WARPED. I THOUGHT I felt more pressure on this one when I first put it together than the Russian!

I worked on it more, and got it so a strip of paper WILL slide down all the way, with just a LITTLE resistance near the front Left.

I will shoot it Saturday and see if there is any improvement. If there is, I will go down even more on the left side until NOTHING is touching, but I was afraid it might just keep bending and I'll end up with an inch of play on the RIGHT!

I'm EVEN thinking of maybe taking the rifle out of the stock and hanging WEIGHTS on it to warp it back the other way! Do you think that might work?

And would the pressure on the LEFT side of the barrel cause the group to shoot to the LEFT?

I don't really have enough (Any?

) experience with accurizing rifles to know how it would affect the shots, would the groups move TOWARDS or AWAY from the pressure on the barrel?

Pistolenschutze · 06-08-2006, 08:10 AM

I will be very interested in the final outcome of your project, Polish. Obviously, if the scope is now solidly in place, the problem must lie elsewhere. I suspect you are on the right track. My best guess is that floating that barrel will have a most positive effect on accuracy and consistancy. Is it possible you are getting any recoil-induced play where the barrel lug seats into the stock?

southernshooter · 06-08-2006, 11:08 PM

Sounds like it is comin toghether, good luck with it dude

Light Coat · 06-09-2006, 10:37 PM

You can straighten the stock a bit by steaming it. This involves steam and a set of true surfaces to shape the steamed wood.

You may want to glass the barrel lug housing. A lot of play can occur in the lug's home. And sometimes replacing the stock is the best method in the end.

polishshooter · 06-09-2006, 11:44 PM

It's a new synthetic stock, LightC, from ATI.

A buddy told me about a friend who had a warped synthetic that somehow stressed it straight and then bedded in a steel or aluminum insert to keep it straight.

I have it in pretty tight, and pretty well freefloated, it's still touching JUST a little bit towards the front, but I can slide a paper down all the rest of the way...in fact I can get it to slide all the way past the muzzle with a little "sawing" around the high spot at the end of the stock, right where the little cross reinforcements are about a half inch from the end of the forestock.

If I see any improvement tomorrow, I'll trim off everything that's touching and truly float it.

I guess I could have trouble if those shims make the lug move around under recoil though....I never consiidered that, but it is tight now...

Just what I need, another variable....

polishshooter · 06-10-2006, 11:13 AM

Well, it's raining cats and dogs here, so even though there it's a covered shooting line, I didn't really relish looking at soggy targets!

SO the "test" session is postponed until after church tomorrow!

(Is it wrong to PRAY for an MOA rifle???)

I bought a buffing kit with various rouges and wheels at a Home Depot on clearance yesterday, so I may just spend today polishing the rest ot the bolt to match that SHINY body...

AND get the barrel fully away from the forearm, maybe get it to float WITHOUT the shims under the lug....

Pistolenschutze · 06-10-2006, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polishshooter

Well, it's raining cats and dogs here, so even though there it's a covered shooting line, I didn't really relish looking at soggy targets!

Well, all I can say is Rommel and his Panzers wouldn't have let a little rain dissuade them!

06-07-2006, 10:03 PM	#1
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,860	My quest for an MOA Pole... Well here is my plan of attack...feel free to give any advice you want. (In FACT I welcome it!.) I WILL turn it into an MOA rifle or die trying! First, I WILL get it to shoot CONSISTENTLY with surplus ammo. I really don't care at this point if I get 3" at 100, but I WILL get it to shoot them CONSISTANLTLY to point of aim! I figure if the ammo is inconsistent, I STILL should get the "group" CENTERED, right? The only variable if the rifle is shooting correctly should be group SIZE I figure. But if I get it dead ON at 25, then 6" high and to the left, CONSISTENTLY with some stringing, at 100, there MUST be something wrong with the RIFLE, right? SO here is the plan. I WILL go step by step, shooting in between to control the changes and post results. This MAY take a while, but HEY it gets me to the range a lot, right? Step one: (I actually started it tonight. And incidentally when I took it down, I checked closely, the ATI mount is TIGHT!) Free float the barrel. Step two: Cut the barrel back, square it with a square and a file, and crown the bore using the brass round head machine screw in the drill trick, with polishing compound, to get rid of ANY damage to the muzzle from Warsaw Bloc hamfisted CLEANING from the muzzle! I'm not sure I'll go all the way to the end of the bayonet "step" and leave it with about a 16 1/2" kind of bull barrel, or leave about an inch or so of the "step" to maybe thread later and put on a flash hider....(I may do that with the "Scout" and go "bull" with the Pole...) Step three: Swap scopes with the Blazer 1" 4x32 I have on my .22 currently...and if THAT doesn't do it, then go buy a new better one for it. At THIS point if I don't get it at least shooting groups CONSISTENTLY to point of aim, I'm probably in trouble...but I think I will get there. THEN comes step 4....working up reloads it likes to get it to MOA..... What do you think of da plan? __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. --> Last edited by polishshooter; 06-07-2006 at 10:23 PM..

06-07-2006, 10:16 PM	#2
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,860	Re: My quest for an MOA Pole... Anyway, I did step one tonight, and free-floated the barrel, and MAY have found something... I BELIEVE I have a warped ATI stock! First, I noticed bluing (the Permablue cold blue I used) WORN OFF in a few spots on the LEFT side of the barrel, but not on the right... I then fabricated two shims from a small piece of 1/16th" scrap sheet aluminum I had in my junk box, and put them under the receiver lug in the stock to raise the action in the stock. I then put another two shims under the rear of the tang to keep it at the same level in the stock. (one shim didn't raise it enough, the barrel was still touching the forearm channel.) But it looked hokey..while the front of the action didn't look bad, the rear tang was raised about 1/8" ABOVE the stock. So I pulled out first one, then both of the REAR shims, so the action is kind of rocked BACK a little on the receiver lug, with the barrel up out of the channel a little. IT still tightened down nice and tight. But the barrel was STILL touching a little. Then I started sanding the forearm channel, which is where I started finding the warping. I could slide paper down the entire barrel IF I held a little pressure on the stock to the LEFT, but not at rest. I noticed the RIGHT wall of the forearm channel was away from the barrel a lttle bit, but the LEFT was still touching. But then a funny thing happened...I started filing and sanding the inside of the LEFT forearm channel ONLY, but every time I put it back together, the LEFT side still TOUCHED, but the gap in the RIGHT side got BIGGER! A HA! The stock is WARPED. I THOUGHT I felt more pressure on this one when I first put it together than the Russian! I worked on it more, and got it so a strip of paper WILL slide down all the way, with just a LITTLE resistance near the front Left. I will shoot it Saturday and see if there is any improvement. If there is, I will go down even more on the left side until NOTHING is touching, but I was afraid it might just keep bending and I'll end up with an inch of play on the RIGHT! I'm EVEN thinking of maybe taking the rifle out of the stock and hanging WEIGHTS on it to warp it back the other way! Do you think that might work? And would the pressure on the LEFT side of the barrel cause the group to shoot to the LEFT? I don't really have enough (Any? ) experience with accurizing rifles to know how it would affect the shots, would the groups move TOWARDS or AWAY from the pressure on the barrel? __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. Last edited by polishshooter; 06-07-2006 at 10:33 PM..

06-08-2006, 08:10 AM	#3
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Re: My quest for an MOA Pole... I will be very interested in the final outcome of your project, Polish. Obviously, if the scope is now solidly in place, the problem must lie elsewhere. I suspect you are on the right track. My best guess is that floating that barrel will have a most positive effect on accuracy and consistancy. Is it possible you are getting any recoil-induced play where the barrel lug seats into the stock? __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)

06-08-2006, 11:08 PM	#4
southernshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep South Mississippi Posts: 5,943	Re: My quest for an MOA Pole... Sounds like it is comin toghether, good luck with it dude __________________ Only you can see this

06-09-2006, 10:37 PM	#5
Light Coat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Middle of Nowhere, KS Posts: 466	Re: My quest for an MOA Pole... You can straighten the stock a bit by steaming it. This involves steam and a set of true surfaces to shape the steamed wood. You may want to glass the barrel lug housing. A lot of play can occur in the lug's home. And sometimes replacing the stock is the best method in the end.

06-09-2006, 11:44 PM	#6
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,860	Re: My quest for an MOA Pole... It's a new synthetic stock, LightC, from ATI. A buddy told me about a friend who had a warped synthetic that somehow stressed it straight and then bedded in a steel or aluminum insert to keep it straight. I have it in pretty tight, and pretty well freefloated, it's still touching JUST a little bit towards the front, but I can slide a paper down all the rest of the way...in fact I can get it to slide all the way past the muzzle with a little "sawing" around the high spot at the end of the stock, right where the little cross reinforcements are about a half inch from the end of the forestock. If I see any improvement tomorrow, I'll trim off everything that's touching and truly float it. I guess I could have trouble if those shims make the lug move around under recoil though....I never consiidered that, but it is tight now... Just what I need, another variable.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

06-10-2006, 11:13 AM	#7
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,860	Re: My quest for an MOA Pole... Well, it's raining cats and dogs here, so even though there it's a covered shooting line, I didn't really relish looking at soggy targets! SO the "test" session is postponed until after church tomorrow! (Is it wrong to PRAY for an MOA rifle???) I bought a buffing kit with various rouges and wheels at a Home Depot on clearance yesterday, so I may just spend today polishing the rest ot the bolt to match that SHINY body... AND get the barrel fully away from the forearm, maybe get it to float WITHOUT the shims under the lug.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. Last edited by polishshooter; 06-10-2006 at 11:15 AM..