Just call me Comrade Nagant 'smith....

03-04-2003, 12:30 PM

polishshooter
*TFF Senior Staff*
Posts: 3264
(4/3/02 10:17:51 am)
Reply | Edit | Del All Just call me Comrade Nagant 'smith....
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Hey guys, I thought I would share with you something I've stumbled on playing with my old M44s...I've done it twice so far and it worked so I think I'm onto something...

One of my recent bolts was "sticking" on retraction, had to kind of rap the bolt handle up with my hand the final bit or so before it would retract...

Thought it was the extractor hanging or dirty chamber at first, but when I tried the bolt in another action, that worked fine with it's bolt, it did the same thing...so now I KNOW it's the bolt.

When I stripped the bolt, I noticed the same thing that I found and apparently fixed on another bolt a few months ago that smoothed it up too...

The bolt guide "ears" that go around the lug on the cocking piece were "spread" just a little bit, barely noticeable...along with some barely noticeable burrs on both sides of the guide, and on the inside of the ears where it rides against that lug...

First, since I have a fetish for removing burrs, I used a small flat needle file to remove the burrs from the flat side (inside the rails,) then squared the actual bearing surface that rides against the lug. Then I used a standard Dremel sanding drum to reduce the burrs on the concave side, where it matches the contour of the bolt body...( the drum was perfect fit to match the contour, just a touch and it was smooth.)

Then lastly, I LIGHTLY squeezed the ends of the ears together, with a small set of pliars, just to make them parallel again, by "eye..."

And PRESTO, bolt now works slicker than snot in a baggy!

I did that before on a sticky bolt, and it helped, but I had also polished the extactor and lubed it well, so didn't know actually WHAT had helped then, but now I know.

I'm guessing the hang up had NOTHING to do with the bolt head that seemed to be the obvious cause, but EITHER the burrs were bearing on the cocking piece lug, OR the "spread" ears were not allowing the cocking piece to ride up the "ramps" properly on the bolt body when cocking...

And I haven't figured out whether the burrs caused the bolt guide ears to spread, or the spread ears caused the burrs...BUT no matter, it WORKED.

Just thought I'd share, because I've heard other Nagant owners complain of "sticky" bolts on extraction before, once I think it was Bob.

And oh yeah, since all the manuals instruct the "peasants" to use the slot of the bolt guide as a "wrench" to adjust the firing pin, I think I figured out how some of these get spread, too..."Ivan the Terrible" using a bolt guide like a "breaker bar..." on OTHER projects...." (Like adjusting T34 tracks? )

For a video of todays lesson, please FAX a check or money order for $179.95 plus a dollar three eighty S/H/I to:

Polish Mosin Smith, Ltd (PMS)
FAX: BR 549

"Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

Edited by: polishshooter at: 4/3/02 10:27:37 am

Moskovskyya
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 132
(4/3/02 11:42:49 am)
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Lookin good Polish, while you have your bolt apart, if you'll polish the caming surfaces, and cut 1/4" off the firing pin spring, and throughly clean / polish the chamber, these old piecies will chamber and eject perfectly!

polishshooter
*TFF Senior Staff*
Posts: 3266
(4/3/02 12:40:17 pm)
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Yeah, Moska, and one other thing I've found is if you lightly touch up the bearing surface on the projection top of the trigger with some 220 grit or crocus cloth, you can REALLY smooth up a balky trigger too...must get little burrs or roughness on it you can't see, but if you run a fingernail across it you can sometimes feel....

When you say polish (not Polish, right? )the bolt...are you talking the camming surfaces on the bolt body the cocking piece rides up on when cocking?

What do you use to polish it with?

I still haven't tried your valve polishing compound on the swab and drill yet, Autozone only had coarser grit lapping compound, not polishing when I asked, haven't checked with NAPA yet...

And why do you cut the main spring...just to help the trigger pull? Or to make it easier to cock?

I've got decent pulls on most of mine, although the pressure needed to "break" is different on just about every one...polishing the trigger spur usually helps the "crispness."

I really don't care on the poundage (within reason,) as much as the clean break...and I don't usually like to lessen firing pin springs because I've had some pretty "hard" military primers in the past, at least US stuff, would want a pretty solid hit in case I get a batch of surplus Commie ammo with exceptionally hard primers...you know, slave labor quality control isn't all that good sometimes....
"Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

Bob In St Louis
*TFF Senior Staff*
Posts: 2107
(4/3/02 9:18:28 pm)
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OK - you gave me food for thought. I'll need to get that rifle out this weekend and check through what you did. I just thought it was a durned ol' Polish bolt shoved in a Russian rifle that was the problem.
Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

Moskovskyya
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 135
(4/3/02 10:25:43 pm)
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Polish / polish is there a difference is spelling, you've got to remember, I'm a Russian decended Georgia redneck that has to take guns out of the shower to bathe, and can't spell worth a she..it.

I have a muslin wheel on a polisher thats saturated with the 1000 grit clover NAPA poishing compound. I usually sand the camming surfaces on the bolt body with a dremel and then shine with the paste. Removing some of the spring along with the slick camming surfaces, relieves the tension when cocking and ejecting at the same time as you mention.

Hard primers can be compensated for by adjusting the firing pin "in" one turn.

If I were living or dieing by the rifle, or lack thereof as a Russian soldier might, I wouldn't lighten the firing pin spring for the chance of an occasional misfire, but hobby shooting like I do makes the cock and eject very nice on these old warhorses.

Xracer
*TFF Senior Staff*
Posts: 1931
(4/4/02 9:50:07 am)
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Polish.....for a fine polishing compound, try some damp baking soda. Toothpaste works well too.

Moskovskyya
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 136
(4/4/02 10:12:52 pm)
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Exactamundo Xracer, I haven't tried it myself yet but I have a bud nearby here who uses a dremmel cloth wheel with jewelers rouge, and he says the baking soda, topol tooth polish etc works well also. I haven't gotten down that fine yet, but I'm working on it.

polishshooter
*TFF Senior Staff*
Posts: 3298
(4/7/02 1:40:45 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Just call me Comrade Nagant 'smith....
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And then the chamber and bolt would also have that "Minty Fresh" feeling also...

Now if only they could get that Bulgarian female tank driver that Bob says packs the ammo in the spam cans to use it we could get that smell gone when we open them too......
"Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

03-04-2003, 12:30 PM	#1
cointoss2 Adnanced Senior Member Posts: n/a	Just call me Comrade Nagant 'smith.... polishshooter TFF Senior Staff Posts: 3264 (4/3/02 10:17:51 am) Reply \| Edit \| Del All Just call me Comrade Nagant 'smith.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey guys, I thought I would share with you something I've stumbled on playing with my old M44s...I've done it twice so far and it worked so I think I'm onto something... One of my recent bolts was "sticking" on retraction, had to kind of rap the bolt handle up with my hand the final bit or so before it would retract... Thought it was the extractor hanging or dirty chamber at first, but when I tried the bolt in another action, that worked fine with it's bolt, it did the same thing...so now I KNOW it's the bolt. When I stripped the bolt, I noticed the same thing that I found and apparently fixed on another bolt a few months ago that smoothed it up too... The bolt guide "ears" that go around the lug on the cocking piece were "spread" just a little bit, barely noticeable...along with some barely noticeable burrs on both sides of the guide, and on the inside of the ears where it rides against that lug... First, since I have a fetish for removing burrs, I used a small flat needle file to remove the burrs from the flat side (inside the rails,) then squared the actual bearing surface that rides against the lug. Then I used a standard Dremel sanding drum to reduce the burrs on the concave side, where it matches the contour of the bolt body...( the drum was perfect fit to match the contour, just a touch and it was smooth.) Then lastly, I LIGHTLY squeezed the ends of the ears together, with a small set of pliars, just to make them parallel again, by "eye..." And PRESTO, bolt now works slicker than snot in a baggy! I did that before on a sticky bolt, and it helped, but I had also polished the extactor and lubed it well, so didn't know actually WHAT had helped then, but now I know. I'm guessing the hang up had NOTHING to do with the bolt head that seemed to be the obvious cause, but EITHER the burrs were bearing on the cocking piece lug, OR the "spread" ears were not allowing the cocking piece to ride up the "ramps" properly on the bolt body when cocking... And I haven't figured out whether the burrs caused the bolt guide ears to spread, or the spread ears caused the burrs...BUT no matter, it WORKED. Just thought I'd share, because I've heard other Nagant owners complain of "sticky" bolts on extraction before, once I think it was Bob. And oh yeah, since all the manuals instruct the "peasants" to use the slot of the bolt guide as a "wrench" to adjust the firing pin, I think I figured out how some of these get spread, too..."Ivan the Terrible" using a bolt guide like a "breaker bar..." on OTHER projects...." (Like adjusting T34 tracks? ) For a video of todays lesson, please FAX a check or money order for $179.95 plus a dollar three eighty S/H/I to: Polish Mosin Smith, Ltd (PMS) FAX: BR 549 "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink" Edited by: polishshooter at: 4/3/02 10:27:37 am Moskovskyya V.I.P. Member Posts: 132 (4/3/02 11:42:49 am) Reply \| Edit \| Del Re: Just call me Comrade Nagant 'smith.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lookin good Polish, while you have your bolt apart, if you'll polish the caming surfaces, and cut 1/4" off the firing pin spring, and throughly clean / polish the chamber, these old piecies will chamber and eject perfectly! polishshooter TFF Senior Staff Posts: 3266 (4/3/02 12:40:17 pm) Reply \| Edit \| Del Re: Just call me Comrade Nagant 'smith.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah, Moska, and one other thing I've found is if you lightly touch up the bearing surface on the projection top of the trigger with some 220 grit or crocus cloth, you can REALLY smooth up a balky trigger too...must get little burrs or roughness on it you can't see, but if you run a fingernail across it you can sometimes feel.... When you say polish (not Polish, right? )the bolt...are you talking the camming surfaces on the bolt body the cocking piece rides up on when cocking? What do you use to polish it with? I still haven't tried your valve polishing compound on the swab and drill yet, Autozone only had coarser grit lapping compound, not polishing when I asked, haven't checked with NAPA yet... And why do you cut the main spring...just to help the trigger pull? Or to make it easier to cock? I've got decent pulls on most of mine, although the pressure needed to "break" is different on just about every one...polishing the trigger spur usually helps the "crispness." I really don't care on the poundage (within reason,) as much as the clean break...and I don't usually like to lessen firing pin springs because I've had some pretty "hard" military primers in the past, at least US stuff, would want a pretty solid hit in case I get a batch of surplus Commie ammo with exceptionally hard primers...you know, slave labor quality control isn't all that good sometimes.... "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink" Bob In St Louis TFF Senior Staff Posts: 2107 (4/3/02 9:18:28 pm) Reply \| Edit \| Del Re: Just call me Comrade Nagant 'smith.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OK - you gave me food for thought. I'll need to get that rifle out this weekend and check through what you did. I just thought it was a durned ol' Polish bolt shoved in a Russian rifle that was the problem. Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules! Moskovskyya V.I.P. Member Posts: 135 (4/3/02 10:25:43 pm) Reply \| Edit \| Del Re: Just call me Comrade Nagant 'smith.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Polish / polish is there a difference is spelling, you've got to remember, I'm a Russian decended Georgia redneck that has to take guns out of the shower to bathe, and can't spell worth a she..it. I have a muslin wheel on a polisher thats saturated with the 1000 grit clover NAPA poishing compound. I usually sand the camming surfaces on the bolt body with a dremel and then shine with the paste. Removing some of the spring along with the slick camming surfaces, relieves the tension when cocking and ejecting at the same time as you mention. Hard primers can be compensated for by adjusting the firing pin "in" one turn. If I were living or dieing by the rifle, or lack thereof as a Russian soldier might, I wouldn't lighten the firing pin spring for the chance of an occasional misfire, but hobby shooting like I do makes the cock and eject very nice on these old warhorses. Xracer TFF Senior Staff Posts: 1931 (4/4/02 9:50:07 am) Reply \| Edit \| Del Re: Just call me Comrade Nagant 'smith.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Polish.....for a fine polishing compound, try some damp baking soda. Toothpaste works well too. Moskovskyya V.I.P. Member Posts: 136 (4/4/02 10:12:52 pm) Reply \| Edit \| Del Re: Just call me Comrade Nagant 'smith.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Exactamundo Xracer, I haven't tried it myself yet but I have a bud nearby here who uses a dremmel cloth wheel with jewelers rouge, and he says the baking soda, topol tooth polish etc works well also. I haven't gotten down that fine yet, but I'm working on it. polishshooter TFF Senior Staff Posts: 3298 (4/7/02 1:40:45 pm) Reply \| Edit \| Del Re: Just call me Comrade Nagant 'smith.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And then the chamber and bolt would also have that "Minty Fresh" feeling also... Now if only they could get that Bulgarian female tank driver that Bob says packs the ammo in the spam cans to use it we could get that smell gone when we open them too...... "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink" -->