Return of the Lightning !!!! - The Firearms Forum

Marlin · 09-18-2006, 08:55 AM

Here is an article from today's Washington Times that I thought would be good food for thought for all of those who support the P-38......

Let's have all your comments.....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For military, 'Lightning' strikes again

By W. Thomas Smith Jr.
SPECIAL TO THE WASHINGTON TIMES
September 18, 2006

FORT WORTH, Texas -- The World War II P-38 Lightning fighter ruled the skies over the Pacific, producing the most aerial combat kills in that theater during the war.

Its new namesake, the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, recently christened the Lightning II, is being developed to be just as dominant and the first-ever fighter produced in three mission-specific versions for the Navy, Air Force and Marines.

The radar-evading family of Lightning II, which Lockheed Martin is expected to test fly in the next two months, has been designed to enable the pilot to concentrate on fighting and tactics.

"Takeoffs, landings and getting from point A to point B need to be easy," said Marine Lt. Col. Arthur "Turbo" Tomassetti, a former test pilot for the fighter's experimental version (the X-35).

"Mission stuff -- killing things and blowing things up -- should be what is most challenging. You don't need to complicate a pilot's life by making the hardest part of his combat mission getting back aboard ship."

The F-35, military and Lockheed officials say, will be highly maneuverable, stealthy, and when armed, capable of tracking and killing as many as eight enemy aircraft and 16 ground targets simultaneously.

And its engine will generate more thrust than any fighter propulsion system ever produced.

It is going to need those capabilities because in less than six years, it will begin replacing several of the top existing fighter aircraft in the U.S. arsenal, including the F-16 Fighting Falcon, the FA-18 Hornet, the AV-8 Harrier "jump jet," even the "tank-busting" A-10 Thunderbolt.

All three U.S. services with fighter air arms will fly a version of the F-35, as will the United Kingdom's Royal Air Force and Navy, a unique plan to make it more cost effective in terms of operational logistics.

The three versions are:

• A conventional takeoff-and-landing (CTOL) variant for the Air Force.
• A short takeoff-vertical landing (STOVL) variant for the Marine Corps.
• A carrier takeoff-and-landing variant for the Navy.

"I see this one aircraft as a family of three airplanes that are 70 [percent] to 80 percent common," says Lockheed spokesman John Smith. "The percent not common is used predominantly to tailor the airplane for the specific mission of the [military] service it will provide service to."

Having three variants of one aircraft will help keep costs down by eliminating the need for individual assembly lines and individual development programs, but it's still not a cheap airplane, costing between $45 million to $60 million each.

On Tuesday, U.S. Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne said that cutting funding to the F-35 program could delay its production and increase costs already projected at $276.5 billion for some 2,400 aircraft by 2027, Reuters reported.

Mr. Wynne was responding to reports that senior Pentagon leaders are weighing a Navy plan to cut the number of F-35s it plans to buy from fiscal 2008 to 2013, which could free up more than $1 billion for other priorities.

The first test flight for the F-35, slated for October or November, will be launched out of Naval Air Station/Joint Reserve Base Fort Worth, and Lockheed hopes to begin production on the first five aircraft next year.

The F-35 will eventually join the already operational F-22 Raptor, an equally stealthy air-supremacy fighter that currently is outperforming all comers.

Nothing on the planet can see the F-22, much less outfight it. But when the F-35 comes online, the two will literally dominate the skies.

The F-35 will be able to see virtually hundreds of airplanes at distances far exceeding the scope of previous fighter systems. Tracking distances are classified, but the new aircraft's sight range is said to be twice that of existing fighters (about 40 miles in every direction for existing aircraft).

The pilot may pick and choose what targets to engage first, and his onboard tracking systems will actually make recommendations.

"There are very few switches and knobs in the cockpit," says Col. Tomassetti, who commands the Navy's Air Test and Evaluation Squadron 23 at Naval Air Station Patuxent River. "Instead, there is a big TV screen that shows you a greater range of things than ever before."

"A pilot in the F-35 cockpit will focus more on being a tactician and less on things like keeping the airplane airborne and going in the right direction."

Besides the United Kingdom, countries that have become vested partners in the F-35 program include Australia, Canada, Denmark, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway and Turkey. Israel and Singapore are also participants.

Xracer · 09-19-2006, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marlin

The World War II P-38 Lightning fighter ruled the skies over the Pacific, producing the most aerial combat kills in that theater during the war.

Well.....that's not quite correct. The F6F Hellcat shot down far more Jap aircraft than the P-38 (in fact, more than all other Allied aircraft combined).

However, it's nice to see the Lightning name being used again.....but.....the new (F-35) Lightning sure isn't as pretty as it's namesake.

That ol' P-38 was one pretty bird!!!

gunfreakboy · 09-19-2006, 02:12 PM

How bout a link with a pic. Wouldn't it be cool if they redeisgned fighter planes in a similar to cars such as the cuda, mustang, tbird, etc...

Xracer · 09-19-2006, 03:11 PM

Here's the F-35: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-35.htm

And the P-38: http://p-38online.com/images/drawing.JPG

Pistolenschutze · 09-19-2006, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xracer

Well.....that's not quite correct. The F6F Hellcat shot down far more Jap aircraft than the P-38 (in fact, more than all other Allied aircraft combined).

True, X, although the TOP scorer in the Pacific--Richard Ira Bong--flew the P-38.

Sackett · 09-19-2006, 07:20 PM

I was also under the impression that the Lightning had shot down more planes.

Marlin · 09-19-2006, 08:04 PM

No picture or artist's conception, but here is the URL:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...767r_page2.htm

polishshooter · 09-19-2006, 08:45 PM

Not to poke at ya X, but the Hellcat killed more TURKEYS, the BEST Japanese pilots were already dead, lilled MAINLY by P-40s, F4Fs and P-38s...with a LITTLE help from Corsairs who got there late too,and a little (very little)help from P-39s and P-400s...

MOST of the experienced Japanese pilots were dead or out of the fight by the time the Hellcat came on the scene...

AND, are you SURE the F6F shot down more than any? I'm not so sure...but I could be wrong....There were a HELLUVA lot of Japanese planes shot down BEFORE 1943...and some planes like the F4F fought the entire war, CONTINUING to have a lot of kills when flying from the CVE, when MANY times they performed the CAP and the Hellcats went on the strikes....

Pistolenschutze · 09-20-2006, 11:00 AM

X is quite correct on this one, Polish. The Hellcat was indeed the highest scoring American fighter of WWII overall.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/hellcat.htm

I do think, however, that comparing the Hellcat to the P-38 is somewhat akin to comparing apples and oranges. To make a fair evaluation it must be remembered that the P-38 was a land-based aircraft, while the Hellcat was primarily a carrier-based fighter. The circumstances of their relative encounters with enemy aircraft were often quite different. For that matter, the Corsair, which was flown mostly by Marine pilots early in the war, was also land-based during most of its career. It was not until the very end of the war that the F4U was based on carriers.

09-18-2006, 08:55 AM	#1
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,853	Return of the Lightning !!!! Here is an article from today's Washington Times that I thought would be good food for thought for all of those who support the P-38...... Let's have all your comments..... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For military, 'Lightning' strikes again By W. Thomas Smith Jr. SPECIAL TO THE WASHINGTON TIMES September 18, 2006 FORT WORTH, Texas -- The World War II P-38 Lightning fighter ruled the skies over the Pacific, producing the most aerial combat kills in that theater during the war. Its new namesake, the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, recently christened the Lightning II, is being developed to be just as dominant and the first-ever fighter produced in three mission-specific versions for the Navy, Air Force and Marines. The radar-evading family of Lightning II, which Lockheed Martin is expected to test fly in the next two months, has been designed to enable the pilot to concentrate on fighting and tactics. "Takeoffs, landings and getting from point A to point B need to be easy," said Marine Lt. Col. Arthur "Turbo" Tomassetti, a former test pilot for the fighter's experimental version (the X-35). "Mission stuff -- killing things and blowing things up -- should be what is most challenging. You don't need to complicate a pilot's life by making the hardest part of his combat mission getting back aboard ship." The F-35, military and Lockheed officials say, will be highly maneuverable, stealthy, and when armed, capable of tracking and killing as many as eight enemy aircraft and 16 ground targets simultaneously. And its engine will generate more thrust than any fighter propulsion system ever produced. It is going to need those capabilities because in less than six years, it will begin replacing several of the top existing fighter aircraft in the U.S. arsenal, including the F-16 Fighting Falcon, the FA-18 Hornet, the AV-8 Harrier "jump jet," even the "tank-busting" A-10 Thunderbolt. All three U.S. services with fighter air arms will fly a version of the F-35, as will the United Kingdom's Royal Air Force and Navy, a unique plan to make it more cost effective in terms of operational logistics. The three versions are: • A conventional takeoff-and-landing (CTOL) variant for the Air Force. • A short takeoff-vertical landing (STOVL) variant for the Marine Corps. • A carrier takeoff-and-landing variant for the Navy. "I see this one aircraft as a family of three airplanes that are 70 [percent] to 80 percent common," says Lockheed spokesman John Smith. "The percent not common is used predominantly to tailor the airplane for the specific mission of the [military] service it will provide service to." Having three variants of one aircraft will help keep costs down by eliminating the need for individual assembly lines and individual development programs, but it's still not a cheap airplane, costing between $45 million to $60 million each. On Tuesday, U.S. Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne said that cutting funding to the F-35 program could delay its production and increase costs already projected at $276.5 billion for some 2,400 aircraft by 2027, Reuters reported. Mr. Wynne was responding to reports that senior Pentagon leaders are weighing a Navy plan to cut the number of F-35s it plans to buy from fiscal 2008 to 2013, which could free up more than $1 billion for other priorities. The first test flight for the F-35, slated for October or November, will be launched out of Naval Air Station/Joint Reserve Base Fort Worth, and Lockheed hopes to begin production on the first five aircraft next year. The F-35 will eventually join the already operational F-22 Raptor, an equally stealthy air-supremacy fighter that currently is outperforming all comers. Nothing on the planet can see the F-22, much less outfight it. But when the F-35 comes online, the two will literally dominate the skies. The F-35 will be able to see virtually hundreds of airplanes at distances far exceeding the scope of previous fighter systems. Tracking distances are classified, but the new aircraft's sight range is said to be twice that of existing fighters (about 40 miles in every direction for existing aircraft). The pilot may pick and choose what targets to engage first, and his onboard tracking systems will actually make recommendations. "There are very few switches and knobs in the cockpit," says Col. Tomassetti, who commands the Navy's Air Test and Evaluation Squadron 23 at Naval Air Station Patuxent River. "Instead, there is a big TV screen that shows you a greater range of things than ever before." "A pilot in the F-35 cockpit will focus more on being a tactician and less on things like keeping the airplane airborne and going in the right direction." Besides the United Kingdom, countries that have become vested partners in the F-35 program include Australia, Canada, Denmark, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway and Turkey. Israel and Singapore are also participants. __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.* -->

09-19-2006, 02:12 PM	#3
gunfreakboy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Buffalo, N.Y. Posts: 338	Re: Return of the Lightning !!!! How bout a link with a pic. Wouldn't it be cool if they redeisgned fighter planes in a similar to cars such as the cuda, mustang, tbird, etc...

09-19-2006, 03:11 PM	#4
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: Return of the Lightning !!!! Here's the F-35: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-35.htm And the P-38: http://p-38online.com/images/drawing.JPG

09-19-2006, 07:20 PM	#6
Sackett V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: SW Mississippi Posts: 266	Re: Return of the Lightning !!!! I was also under the impression that the Lightning had shot down more planes. __________________ "I'm not someone to be as good as. I'm someone to be better than."

09-19-2006, 08:04 PM	#7
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,853	Re: Return of the Lightning !!!! No picture or artist's conception, but here is the URL: http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...767r_page2.htm __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

09-19-2006, 08:45 PM	#8
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,860	Re: Return of the Lightning !!!! Not to poke at ya X, but the Hellcat killed more TURKEYS, the BEST Japanese pilots were already dead, lilled MAINLY by P-40s, F4Fs and P-38s...with a LITTLE help from Corsairs who got there late too,and a little (very little)help from P-39s and P-400s... MOST of the experienced Japanese pilots were dead or out of the fight by the time the Hellcat came on the scene... AND, are you SURE the F6F shot down more than any? I'm not so sure...but I could be wrong....There were a HELLUVA lot of Japanese planes shot down BEFORE 1943...and some planes like the F4F fought the entire war, CONTINUING to have a lot of kills when flying from the CVE, when MANY times they performed the CAP and the Hellcats went on the strikes.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

09-20-2006, 11:00 AM	#9
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Re: Return of the Lightning !!!! X is quite correct on this one, Polish. The Hellcat was indeed the highest scoring American fighter of WWII overall. http://www.chuckhawks.com/hellcat.htm I do think, however, that comparing the Hellcat to the P-38 is somewhat akin to comparing apples and oranges. To make a fair evaluation it must be remembered that the P-38 was a land-based aircraft, while the Hellcat was primarily a carrier-based fighter. The circumstances of their relative encounters with enemy aircraft were often quite different. For that matter, the Corsair, which was flown mostly by Marine pilots early in the war, was also land-based during most of its career. It was not until the very end of the war that the F4U was based on carriers. __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)