New to Black Powder - The Firearms Forum

crims40 · 12-17-2006, 12:43 PM

My son just bought his first black powder rifle. A CVA Optima Pro .50....pretty sure. Got a starter kit with it. I talked him into getting some triple 7 30g pellets also so that he could work up a load for it. Didn't know what kind or weight of sabot bullet to recommend to him for a deer bullet.
What's your favorite sabot bullet and load or could you give me a starting point...? Thanks fellers.........

crims40

armedandsafe · 12-19-2006, 01:20 PM

My personal opinion is to not use the pellets. Loose powder offers finer tuning and is no more difficult to load, using powder "cartridges."

The starting point would be the recommended loads in the material which came with the rifle. Each rifle is different enough from all others like it, that no two will like the same load "best." Play with various loads until you find one which gives YOU acceptable accuracy and power factor. That is why we call it "playing dirty."

Pops

stetson · 12-19-2006, 06:53 PM

I agree the pellets do not give you the flexiblilty that powder does.
Play with the powder and try different charges and see how your
rifle reacts.This a fun way to shoot!Just make sure you stay in
your guns charge parametiers.

crims40 · 12-19-2006, 09:04 PM

Thanks fellers........That's good advice and I will pass that on to my son. He is very open to all sides of this new experience.....me too.

crims40

southernshooter · 12-19-2006, 10:07 PM

Post some pics of the new purchases and a range report

RimfireRat · 12-20-2006, 11:22 AM

Be careful the factory reccomenrded loads aren't too high http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=31104 ---JMJ--

crims40 · 12-20-2006, 11:45 AM

RimfireRat.......That's a good article. Thanks.....We will be cautious and not overload the new Optima. There were numerous references to keeping loads to 100g of powder in this rifle. But, then again, I've heard from other shooters who go over that amount, all the way to 150g as in the case in your article. We will probably start at 90g and work up. We bought some 30g triple 7 pellets and will go from there....We haven't settled on a sabot yet, but will probably go with a 240g something or other name brand.
We are waiting for Christmas day to open the present containing the rifle so he can act properly surprised and then beat it out the back door to the range.........

crims40

Hoss · 12-31-2006, 05:15 PM

Can tell ya one thing about the Triple-7. Do not put too much pressure on the powder when seating the projectile. When Triple-7 is crushed it burns very very bad. But you still have to get the projectile on to the powder.

My brother and I tried the Triple-7 and we were use to using the good old black powder FFg and really putting some pressure on the rod when seating the bullet, as soon as we switched to the Triple-7 our bullets were not even going 50 yds before hitting the dirt.

When we tried just stopping as soon as we felt the bullet hit the powder it did just fine. Went home and poured the whole container of powder out in the ditch in front of the house. It seemed kind of dangerous to me.

MarkC · 01-01-2007, 09:18 PM

Crims40-

I shoot a CVA Kodiak and am very pleased with it. I'm sure you'll be happy with your Optima Pro.

I've shot nothing but Triple 7 powder and have had success. I have used mainly Powerbelts and Shockwaves with decent success... like easy 3 inch groups at 100 yards using both 100 and 150 grains of powder. I've actually gone back and forth between 100 and 150 grains over the last 4 years... this year I'm shooting 150 again. It seems to help you poke one out 200 yards, but certainly not necessary.

I have found success this year shooting 240 grain Hornady XTP .45 caliber bullets out of my 50 cal. I buy them at Gander Mtn. and am sure to purchase the approprate sabot to encapsule the .45 cal bullet. If I remember right, a box of 100 XTPs was only $20.

The combo or 150 gr 777 and the 240 gr Hornady XTP produces easy 6 inch groups at 200 with about an 8" drop when zeroed at 100 yards.

I would not hesitate to shoot 100 grains of powder... VERY sufficient for hunting. I don't really even have a solid answer for why I have chosen to shoot 150 grains this year???

I found that the plastic of some sabots or the belt from the powerbelt would often melt slightly upon firing and leave a residue or ring where the bullet was seated cause difficulty in loading a second round. I was told to purchase better sabots for some of the bullets I was shooting but never did.

This past year I was told to shoot 777 primers... then I wouldn't have that problem. Well, I have had NO problems with a plastic melt ring being left in my barrel, but I'm not sure if it's due to the new 777 primers or the sabots I purchased seperate from the Hornady bullets... all other bullets have come in combination with sabots... maybe they were just junk plastic... not sure though.

I would agree that tinkering with powder, not pellets, will lend better results, but I will also say that dropping 90 or 100 grains in pellet form will produce very acceptable results. The pellets are VERY handy for hunting purposes.

Anyway... I would advise you to shoot 90-100 grains of 777 charges (to start) and skip the powerbelts, shockwave or other bullets and GET THE HORNADY Hollow Point XTP bullets. Much more economical and perform great. Also, use 777 primers if you can!

Good luck, and I'd enjoy hearing any of your successes!

crims40 · 01-03-2007, 03:52 PM

MarkC.......Sorry I didn't get back to your post sooner. I certainly will try your suggestions. I have found an accurate load with 245g PowerBelts and 90g of Pyrodex pellets. When I increased to 120g of Pyrodex, the groups tightened up a bit further to about 2 1/2 in at 100 yds. But, I am open to trying something else and will.......I am anxious to try the Triple 7 powder and primers and intend to pick some up this weekend....Thanks again for the info.

crims40

nosegunner · 02-20-2007, 08:52 PM

Am not on expert on inlines but have alot of time with traditional frontstuffers. Have been doing alot of research on inlines since I just bought one and am trying to learn as much as possible from knowledgeable sources as I develop loads. A couple of findings from good sources that might be useful:
= most all manufacturers use plastic Sabots OEM'ed from MMP...there may be cheap junk out there, but if you are buying Sierra, Barnes, Horndady, etc the Sabots are most likely from MMP but built to the bullet manufacturer's specs
- more than firmly seating bullets on pellets presents a posibility of crushing the pellets with resutling ignition problems or varying burn rates
- the Triple 7 web site recomends using 15% less loads by volume as a starting point for use as a substitute for established blackpowder or Pyrodex RS loads. Experience in my 1861 seems to verify this. The chrono MVs (15 ft) are faster by 50-75ft/sec on ave with smal std dev than the same volume of GOEX ffg. Subjectively it also kick a heck of alot more and I had occasional iginition problems with musket primers in a the traditional sidelock.

12-17-2006, 12:43 PM	#1
crims40 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 197	New to Black Powder My son just bought his first black powder rifle. A CVA Optima Pro .50....pretty sure. Got a starter kit with it. I talked him into getting some triple 7 30g pellets also so that he could work up a load for it. Didn't know what kind or weight of sabot bullet to recommend to him for a deer bullet. What's your favorite sabot bullet and load or could you give me a starting point...? Thanks fellers......... crims40 -->

12-19-2006, 01:20 PM	#2
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	Re: New to Black Powder My personal opinion is to not use the pellets. Loose powder offers finer tuning and is no more difficult to load, using powder "cartridges." The starting point would be the recommended loads in the material which came with the rifle. Each rifle is different enough from all others like it, that no two will like the same load "best." Play with various loads until you find one which gives YOU acceptable accuracy and power factor. That is why we call it "playing dirty." Pops

12-19-2006, 06:53 PM	#3
stetson V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 198	Re: New to Black Powder I agree the pellets do not give you the flexiblilty that powder does. Play with the powder and try different charges and see how your rifle reacts.This a fun way to shoot!Just make sure you stay in your guns charge parametiers.

12-19-2006, 09:04 PM	#4
crims40 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 197	Re: New to Black Powder Thanks fellers........That's good advice and I will pass that on to my son. He is very open to all sides of this new experience.....me too. crims40

12-19-2006, 10:07 PM	#5
southernshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep South Mississippi Posts: 5,943	Re: New to Black Powder Post some pics of the new purchases and a range report __________________ Only you can see this

12-20-2006, 11:22 AM	#6
RimfireRat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 141	Re: New to Black Powder Be careful the factory reccomenrded loads aren't too high http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=31104 ---JMJ-- __________________ "AMERICANS Used To ROAR Like LIONS For LIBERTY,- NOW They BLEAT Like SHEEP For SECURITY."-_Norman Vincent Peale-____________________REMEMBER. "SECURITY WITHOUT LIBERTY Is Called PRISON."---J.L.W.

12-20-2006, 11:45 AM	#7
crims40 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 197	Re: New to Black Powder RimfireRat.......That's a good article. Thanks.....We will be cautious and not overload the new Optima. There were numerous references to keeping loads to 100g of powder in this rifle. But, then again, I've heard from other shooters who go over that amount, all the way to 150g as in the case in your article. We will probably start at 90g and work up. We bought some 30g triple 7 pellets and will go from there....We haven't settled on a sabot yet, but will probably go with a 240g something or other name brand. We are waiting for Christmas day to open the present containing the rifle so he can act properly surprised and then beat it out the back door to the range......... crims40

12-31-2006, 05:15 PM	#8
Hoss Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 15	Re: New to Black Powder Can tell ya one thing about the Triple-7. Do not put too much pressure on the powder when seating the projectile. When Triple-7 is crushed it burns very very bad. But you still have to get the projectile on to the powder. My brother and I tried the Triple-7 and we were use to using the good old black powder FFg and really putting some pressure on the rod when seating the bullet, as soon as we switched to the Triple-7 our bullets were not even going 50 yds before hitting the dirt. When we tried just stopping as soon as we felt the bullet hit the powder it did just fine. Went home and poured the whole container of powder out in the ditch in front of the house. It seemed kind of dangerous to me.

01-01-2007, 09:18 PM	#9
MarkC V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Badger fan in the Hawkeye State Posts: 162	Re: New to Black Powder Crims40- I shoot a CVA Kodiak and am very pleased with it. I'm sure you'll be happy with your Optima Pro. I've shot nothing but Triple 7 powder and have had success. I have used mainly Powerbelts and Shockwaves with decent success... like easy 3 inch groups at 100 yards using both 100 and 150 grains of powder. I've actually gone back and forth between 100 and 150 grains over the last 4 years... this year I'm shooting 150 again. It seems to help you poke one out 200 yards, but certainly not necessary. I have found success this year shooting 240 grain Hornady XTP .45 caliber bullets out of my 50 cal. I buy them at Gander Mtn. and am sure to purchase the approprate sabot to encapsule the .45 cal bullet. If I remember right, a box of 100 XTPs was only $20. The combo or 150 gr 777 and the 240 gr Hornady XTP produces easy 6 inch groups at 200 with about an 8" drop when zeroed at 100 yards. I would not hesitate to shoot 100 grains of powder... VERY sufficient for hunting. I don't really even have a solid answer for why I have chosen to shoot 150 grains this year??? I found that the plastic of some sabots or the belt from the powerbelt would often melt slightly upon firing and leave a residue or ring where the bullet was seated cause difficulty in loading a second round. I was told to purchase better sabots for some of the bullets I was shooting but never did. This past year I was told to shoot 777 primers... then I wouldn't have that problem. Well, I have had NO problems with a plastic melt ring being left in my barrel, but I'm not sure if it's due to the new 777 primers or the sabots I purchased seperate from the Hornady bullets... all other bullets have come in combination with sabots... maybe they were just junk plastic... not sure though. I would agree that tinkering with powder, not pellets, will lend better results, but I will also say that dropping 90 or 100 grains in pellet form will produce very acceptable results. The pellets are VERY handy for hunting purposes. Anyway... I would advise you to shoot 90-100 grains of 777 charges (to start) and skip the powerbelts, shockwave or other bullets and GET THE HORNADY Hollow Point XTP bullets. Much more economical and perform great. Also, use 777 primers if you can! Good luck, and I'd enjoy hearing any of your successes!

01-03-2007, 03:52 PM	#10
crims40 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 197	Re: New to Black Powder MarkC.......Sorry I didn't get back to your post sooner. I certainly will try your suggestions. I have found an accurate load with 245g PowerBelts and 90g of Pyrodex pellets. When I increased to 120g of Pyrodex, the groups tightened up a bit further to about 2 1/2 in at 100 yds. But, I am open to trying something else and will.......I am anxious to try the Triple 7 powder and primers and intend to pick some up this weekend....Thanks again for the info. crims40

02-20-2007, 08:52 PM	#11
nosegunner Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 3	Re: New to Black Powder Am not on expert on inlines but have alot of time with traditional frontstuffers. Have been doing alot of research on inlines since I just bought one and am trying to learn as much as possible from knowledgeable sources as I develop loads. A couple of findings from good sources that might be useful: = most all manufacturers use plastic Sabots OEM'ed from MMP...there may be cheap junk out there, but if you are buying Sierra, Barnes, Horndady, etc the Sabots are most likely from MMP but built to the bullet manufacturer's specs - more than firmly seating bullets on pellets presents a posibility of crushing the pellets with resutling ignition problems or varying burn rates - the Triple 7 web site recomends using 15% less loads by volume as a starting point for use as a substitute for established blackpowder or Pyrodex RS loads. Experience in my 1861 seems to verify this. The chrono MVs (15 ft) are faster by 50-75ft/sec on ave with smal std dev than the same volume of GOEX ffg. Subjectively it also kick a heck of alot more and I had occasional iginition problems with musket primers in a the traditional sidelock.