H&R Handy Gun - The Firearms Forum

piski · 12-30-2006, 10:46 AM

Can someone please help me find an approx. age and value of an H&R Handy Gun 28 ga. Barrel length is 12 3/16", both barrel and receiver are stamped with 10371. Firearm is smooth bore and in perfect condition with what I've read is referred to as "tiger bluing". Any help would be very much appreciated.

b.goforth · 12-30-2006, 03:12 PM

a h&r handy gun in 28 gauge with all the proper registration papers (in U.S.A.) could be worth considerable money as not to many have survived in this gauge. the handy gun was manufacured between 1924 and 1934 when the government rulled they were not a shotgun but a smooth bore handgun which was declared illegal, unless registrated, by the 1932 firearms revenue act. actually the handy gun has several strikes against it and H&Rs fight to get it approved never stood a chance.

if it does not have the proper paper work it is worthless as it cannot be legally sold and is subject to confiscation by the BATF
bill

johnston3407 · 12-30-2006, 05:33 PM

Let us see a photo of it anyway.

piski · 12-30-2006, 06:14 PM

It's registered...up here in Canada, and i'll get a pic up in the next couple of days. Any ideas on an exact manufacture date ??

SGVictor · 12-30-2006, 07:34 PM

Eric M. Larson's booklet on the variations of the smooth Bore H&R Handy-Gun lists three models with three types for each model. The 28 Ga. has been observed inn only a few of the variations. You would need to provide photos and exace markings and the locations of the markings for a proper identification.

Based on the little information provided, I would guess 1924-1925.

piski · 12-31-2006, 02:03 PM

as promised.......here's the pics of the 28ga Handy-Gun. Again, s/n is 10371.....can ya's better approximate a value now ? Barrel s/n is stamped on the "locking tab" visible once action is opened and receiver s/n is on top of handle where latch is to break it open. If anymore info is necessary....just chime in.

b.goforth · 12-31-2006, 04:42 PM

since this is a hard gun to get ahold of here in the U.S. they are hard to study. my own research has not turned up ay more than already reported. they were serial numbered in their own series with about 40,000 manufactured serial numbers in the 25,000/ 30,000 range seem to be in the 1929/1930 era so i would guess your is fairly early. also those manufactured in 1929/30 era are choke bored and so marked on the top of the barrel. ned schwing's 'standard catalog of firearms' has some good information on the handy gun
bill

johnston3407 · 12-31-2006, 06:12 PM

Goforth,
Why would that be any different than a T.C. Contender? ( legal ) I think you can shoot 410 ga. in a Contender.

b.goforth · 12-31-2006, 10:12 PM

the contenders and other modern handguns that will fire the 410 shells have rifled barrels with either an internal or external choke tube that inhiblits the spin of the 410 shot sabot. the early contender i had was a 44 magnum and fired all the 44 mag loads better than i could hold it but the 410 shot had large holes in the pattern. only good for very short ranges.

johnston3407 · 01-01-2007, 07:58 AM

I was just curious, so it's the rifling that would make the H&R not legal?

b.goforth · 01-01-2007, 10:43 AM

a better answer is the lack of rifling in the barrel is what made the handy gun illegal. the government ruled early on that any handgun with a smooth bore was a shotgun and to be legal a shotgun must have a barrel length of 18 inches and a overall legth on 26 1/2 inches. the H&R handy gun and several other handguns with smooth bores had to be discontinued. however the H&R handy gun was still offered for sale in canada until at least 1941 where it was not outlawed until sometime after wwII.

there were some handy guns chambered for the 22 rimfire and 32-20 centerfire cartridges that have a rifled barrel. they proved unpopular and didn't last any longer than the smooth bore models.

the handy gun made its last appearence in the U.S.A. H&R catalog number 20 (1933/34 era). the illustration of the handy gun is overstamped in large letters "this model withdrawn, a ruling by the internal revenue dept. classes the handy gun under the new federal machine gun law".

the standard catalog of firearms list the 28 gauge handy gun as having a value of up to $1200.00 depending on condition.
bill

vidman · 02-09-2011, 02:12 AM

I was going thru a box of my grandfathers things and found a .410 version of the H&R Handy Gun. I remember as a kid he told me that he traded it for some work he did around a guys house in upstate New York, back in the 30's. I dont know if he or the original owner ever had any papers for it, I did not find any for it. Is this a worthless relic? It is in NEAR perfect condition and doesnt look like it has been ever fired. Any info is greatly appreciated.

Jim Hauff · 02-09-2011, 10:49 AM

vidman -
Read Bill Goforth's comments concerning the legality of the SMOOTHBORE Handy Guns in the previous postings. This will give you all the info you need to know about yours. IF you have no papers (registration and tax stamp) it is considered CONTRABAND by the ATF.
Here's a reference for your viewing pleasure.
http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5320-8.pdf

"Section 2.5 Removal of firearms from the scope of the NFA by modification/elimination of components.

Firearms, except machineguns and silencers, that are subject to the NFA fall within the various definitions due to specific features. If the particular feature that causes a firearm to be regulated by the NFA is eliminated or modified, the resulting weapon is no longer an NFA weapon.

For example, a shotgun with a barrel length of 15 inches is an NFA weapon. If the 15- inch barrel is removed and disposed of, the remaining firearm is not subject to the NFA because it has no barrel.
Likewise, if the 15 inch barrel is modified by permanently attaching an extension such that the barrel length is at least 18 inches and the overall length of the weapon is at least 26 inches, the modified
firearm is not subject to the NFA. NOTE: an acceptable method for permanently installing a barrel extension is by gas or electric steel seam welding or the use of high temperature silver solder having a
flow point of 1100 degrees Fahrenheit."

Bill DeShivs · 02-09-2011, 02:11 PM

A Handy gun without a barrel is not an NFA weapon.
The receiver can be converted to a SBS by getting a tax stamp. Then, a short barrel can be added.

PeteM · 02-09-2011, 04:06 PM

That has to be in the best condition I have ever seen for one of these. The "tiger bluing" is referring to the cyanide case colors on the frame. I can't remember the year of this ad...

As the ad states, they were also chambered for the 44XL, an early form of the .410 in this country.

The NFA coincides with the John Dillinger, Melvin Purvis activity that was capturing the headlines then.

Jim Hauff · 02-10-2011, 09:42 AM

It really is a shame that these were "outlawed" - I've seen some really fine examples over the years that were relegated to "can't own" status by an act of bureacracy. I have a receiver and furniture for a "BAY STATE" marked HG, that was previously a .410 - found amongst an old farmer's working pieces - no papers - barrel is now demolished, actually I never even saw the barrel, it was destroyed by the executor of the gentleman's estate as I suggested - what a shame.

JBArms · 02-10-2011, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Hauff

It really is a shame that there were "outlawed" - I've seen some really fine examples over the years that were relegated to "can't own" status by an act of bureacracy. I have a receiver and furniture for a "BAY STATE" marked HG, that was previously a .410 - found amongst an old farmer's working pieces - no papers - barrel is now demolished, actually I never even saw the barrel, it was destroyed by the executor of the gentleman's estate as I suggested - what a shame.

I just came across 2 of them last night and was not really familiar with them.Both H & R guns are .410 but 1 has an 8" barrel and the other 1 has a 12 1/4 barrel. I'm a manufacturer so I'll see if I can get them legal even if they have to be SBS's (NFA) Howard

Bill DeShivs · 02-10-2011, 07:01 PM

Howard,
Please fill us in on how the process goes.

johnlives4christ · 02-10-2011, 07:34 PM

more unconstitutional regulations by the government and and more illegal imprisonment if caught with such a weapon. shame as it's a neat thing.

Jim Hauff · 02-11-2011, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

Howard,
Please fill us in on how the process goes.

Seconded!

TiredIron · 02-15-2011, 02:37 PM

Does anyone here know where any original barrels might exist..?? I have also heard where original barrels that were "in question" were sleaved in smaller rifled pistol diameter.

TiredIron

johnnyH · 02-28-2011, 09:40 AM

Here is my H&R Handy Gun
Model 2, Type II
.410

This was my Dad's. His Dad, my Grandfather, won it in a bar bet in Oregon back in the '30's.

I just wanted to show it off.

vossanthony · 03-07-2012, 12:06 AM

I need some help. I may possibly inherent a handgun gun 410 smooth bore and I don't know of any paper work with it how do I find out if its legal?

3/2 STA SS · 03-07-2012, 11:59 AM

Stupid gangsters ruined everything

wonderwhippet · 03-07-2012, 02:50 PM

If you don't have the paperwork to prove it's legal, then it isn't. There is no way to replicate the missing document.

12-30-2006, 10:46 AM	#1
piski Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5	H&R Handy Gun Can someone please help me find an approx. age and value of an H&R Handy Gun 28 ga. Barrel length is 12 3/16", both barrel and receiver are stamped with 10371. Firearm is smooth bore and in perfect condition with what I've read is referred to as "tiger bluing". Any help would be very much appreciated. -->

12-30-2006, 03:12 PM	#2
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: H&R Handy Gun a h&r handy gun in 28 gauge with all the proper registration papers (in U.S.A.) could be worth considerable money as not to many have survived in this gauge. the handy gun was manufacured between 1924 and 1934 when the government rulled they were not a shotgun but a smooth bore handgun which was declared illegal, unless registrated, by the 1932 firearms revenue act. actually the handy gun has several strikes against it and H&Rs fight to get it approved never stood a chance. if it does not have the proper paper work it is worthless as it cannot be legally sold and is subject to confiscation by the BATF bill __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com

12-30-2006, 05:33 PM	#3
johnston3407 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Coast of Mississippi Posts: 592	Re: H&R Handy Gun Let us see a photo of it anyway.

12-30-2006, 06:14 PM	#4
piski Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5	Re: H&R Handy Gun It's registered...up here in Canada, and i'll get a pic up in the next couple of days. Any ideas on an exact manufacture date ??

12-30-2006, 07:34 PM	#5
SGVictor V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 195	Re: H&R Handy Gun Eric M. Larson's booklet on the variations of the smooth Bore H&R Handy-Gun lists three models with three types for each model. The 28 Ga. has been observed inn only a few of the variations. You would need to provide photos and exace markings and the locations of the markings for a proper identification. Based on the little information provided, I would guess 1924-1925.

12-31-2006, 02:03 PM	#6
piski Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5	Re: H&R Handy Gun as promised.......here's the pics of the 28ga Handy-Gun. Again, s/n is 10371.....can ya's better approximate a value now ? Barrel s/n is stamped on the "locking tab" visible once action is opened and receiver s/n is on top of handle where latch is to break it open. If anymore info is necessary....just chime in. Attached Images

12-31-2006, 04:42 PM	#7
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: H&R Handy Gun since this is a hard gun to get ahold of here in the U.S. they are hard to study. my own research has not turned up ay more than already reported. they were serial numbered in their own series with about 40,000 manufactured serial numbers in the 25,000/ 30,000 range seem to be in the 1929/1930 era so i would guess your is fairly early. also those manufactured in 1929/30 era are choke bored and so marked on the top of the barrel. ned schwing's 'standard catalog of firearms' has some good information on the handy gun bill __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com

12-31-2006, 06:12 PM	#8
johnston3407 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Coast of Mississippi Posts: 592	Re: H&R Handy Gun Goforth, Why would that be any different than a T.C. Contender? ( legal ) I think you can shoot 410 ga. in a Contender.

12-31-2006, 10:12 PM	#9
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: H&R Handy Gun the contenders and other modern handguns that will fire the 410 shells have rifled barrels with either an internal or external choke tube that inhiblits the spin of the 410 shot sabot. the early contender i had was a 44 magnum and fired all the 44 mag loads better than i could hold it but the 410 shot had large holes in the pattern. only good for very short ranges. __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com

01-01-2007, 07:58 AM	#10
johnston3407 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Coast of Mississippi Posts: 592	Re: H&R Handy Gun I was just curious, so it's the rifling that would make the H&R not legal?

01-01-2007, 10:43 AM	#11
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: H&R Handy Gun a better answer is the lack of rifling in the barrel is what made the handy gun illegal. the government ruled early on that any handgun with a smooth bore was a shotgun and to be legal a shotgun must have a barrel length of 18 inches and a overall legth on 26 1/2 inches. the H&R handy gun and several other handguns with smooth bores had to be discontinued. however the H&R handy gun was still offered for sale in canada until at least 1941 where it was not outlawed until sometime after wwII. there were some handy guns chambered for the 22 rimfire and 32-20 centerfire cartridges that have a rifled barrel. they proved unpopular and didn't last any longer than the smooth bore models. the handy gun made its last appearence in the U.S.A. H&R catalog number 20 (1933/34 era). the illustration of the handy gun is overstamped in large letters "this model withdrawn, a ruling by the internal revenue dept. classes the handy gun under the new federal machine gun law". the standard catalog of firearms list the 28 gauge handy gun as having a value of up to $1200.00 depending on condition. bill __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com Last edited by b.goforth; 01-01-2007 at 10:49 AM..

02-09-2011, 02:12 AM	#12
vidman Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1	Re: H&R Handy Gun I was going thru a box of my grandfathers things and found a .410 version of the H&R Handy Gun. I remember as a kid he told me that he traded it for some work he did around a guys house in upstate New York, back in the 30's. I dont know if he or the original owner ever had any papers for it, I did not find any for it. Is this a worthless relic? It is in NEAR perfect condition and doesnt look like it has been ever fired. Any info is greatly appreciated.

02-09-2011, 10:49 AM	#13
Jim Hauff Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 2,980	Re: H&R Handy Gun vidman - Read Bill Goforth's comments concerning the legality of the SMOOTHBORE Handy Guns in the previous postings. This will give you all the info you need to know about yours. IF you have no papers (registration and tax stamp) it is considered CONTRABAND by the ATF. Here's a reference for your viewing pleasure. http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5320-8.pdf "Section 2.5 Removal of firearms from the scope of the NFA by modification/elimination of components. Firearms, except machineguns and silencers, that are subject to the NFA fall within the various definitions due to specific features. If the particular feature that causes a firearm to be regulated by the NFA is eliminated or modified, the resulting weapon is no longer an NFA weapon. For example, a shotgun with a barrel length of 15 inches is an NFA weapon. If the 15- inch barrel is removed and disposed of, the remaining firearm is not subject to the NFA because it has no barrel. Likewise, if the 15 inch barrel is modified by permanently attaching an extension such that the barrel length is at least 18 inches and the overall length of the weapon is at least 26 inches, the modified firearm is not subject to the NFA. NOTE: an acceptable method for permanently installing a barrel extension is by gas or electric steel seam welding or the use of high temperature silver solder having a flow point of 1100 degrees Fahrenheit." __________________ Jim Hauff ~ H&R Collector In Memory of Bill Goforth and Jim Ritchie

02-09-2011, 02:11 PM	#14
Bill DeShivs Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Contributor Posts: 1,470	Re: H&R Handy Gun A Handy gun without a barrel is not an NFA weapon. The receiver can be converted to a SBS by getting a tax stamp. Then, a short barrel can be added. __________________ Bill DeShivs www.billdeshivs.com Last edited by Bill DeShivs; 02-09-2011 at 02:12 PM..

02-09-2011, 04:06 PM	#15
PeteM Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 24	Re: H&R Handy Gun That has to be in the best condition I have ever seen for one of these. The "tiger bluing" is referring to the cyanide case colors on the frame. I can't remember the year of this ad... As the ad states, they were also chambered for the 44XL, an early form of the .410 in this country. The NFA coincides with the John Dillinger, Melvin Purvis activity that was capturing the headlines then. __________________ Pete Damascus Barrels

02-10-2011, 09:42 AM	#16
Jim Hauff Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 2,980	Re: H&R Handy Gun It really is a shame that these were "outlawed" - I've seen some really fine examples over the years that were relegated to "can't own" status by an act of bureacracy. I have a receiver and furniture for a "BAY STATE" marked HG, that was previously a .410 - found amongst an old farmer's working pieces - no papers - barrel is now demolished, actually I never even saw the barrel, it was destroyed by the executor of the gentleman's estate as I suggested - what a shame. __________________ Jim Hauff ~ H&R Collector In Memory of Bill Goforth and Jim Ritchie Last edited by Jim Hauff; 02-11-2011 at 09:34 AM..

02-10-2011, 07:01 PM	#18
Bill DeShivs Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Contributor Posts: 1,470	Re: H&R Handy Gun Howard, Please fill us in on how the process goes. __________________ Bill DeShivs www.billdeshivs.com

02-10-2011, 07:34 PM	#19
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: H&R Handy Gun more unconstitutional regulations by the government and and more illegal imprisonment if caught with such a weapon. shame as it's a neat thing.

02-15-2011, 02:37 PM	#21
TiredIron Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1	Re: H&R Handy Gun Does anyone here know where any original barrels might exist..?? I have also heard where original barrels that were "in question" were sleaved in smaller rifled pistol diameter. TiredIron

02-28-2011, 09:40 AM	#22
johnnyH Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1	Re: H&R Handy Gun Here is my H&R Handy Gun Model 2, Type II .410 This was my Dad's. His Dad, my Grandfather, won it in a bar bet in Oregon back in the '30's. I just wanted to show it off. Attached Images Last edited by johnnyH; 03-01-2011 at 10:27 PM..

03-07-2012, 12:06 AM	#23
vossanthony Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 1	Re: H&R Handy Gun I need some help. I may possibly inherent a handgun gun 410 smooth bore and I don't know of any paper work with it how do I find out if its legal?

03-07-2012, 11:59 AM	#24
3/2 STA SS Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Area, FL Posts: 1,437	Re: H&R Handy Gun Stupid gangsters ruined everything __________________ MORS DE CONTACTUS-DEATH ON CONTACT

03-07-2012, 02:50 PM	#25
wonderwhippet Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,586	Re: H&R Handy Gun If you don't have the paperwork to prove it's legal, then it isn't. There is no way to replicate the missing document.