M1 carbine vrs. 1911

[Ursus]

As you know the M1 carbine was developed as a substitute for the 1911. Personally, I would take the carbine over the pistol. What would you do?

[Nighthawk]

I go with carbine mainly because of larger ammo capacity

[Pistolenschutze]

I would choose the carbine any day, Bear, assuming the conditions of use allowed for a rifle. The .30 carbine is certainly not the most effective rifle round, but it still beats a pistol, even the venerable .45 1911.

[pickenup]

Although I don't care much for the M1, it's rifle over pistol "most" every time.

[MRMIKE08075]

i can easily hit a paper plate with a carbine at the 100 yd mark...
i can easily hit a trashcan lid with a carbine at the 200 yd mark...
give me a 30 round magazine at i will garuntee 30 hits in either of the above referenced scenarios...

under no circumstances can i do so with a combat issue handgun...

higher magazine capacity
select fire capability
greater range and accuracy
bayonet option
lightwieght, handy, portable...

i would always opt for a carbine over a pistol.

JMHO.

best regards, mike.

[flopshot]

ok, given my bias to the 9mm platform, i still go with the carbine.
i can outshoot any of my handguns with the "little rifle" any day of the week at any range the carbine was designed to deal with. love my M1's, they're just a little tough to keep in the console.

[Xracer]

Up close and personal, I'd take the M1911......but for the purposes for which the M1 Carbine was developed......for rear eschelon troops to keep the enemy's heads down at 100 yards, and for repelling enemy troops at medium distances on the Pacific Islands, the Carbine was a brilliant design.

Think I'd like to have one of each.

[SF Mike]

I carried both a carbine and a .45 when I was an advisor.

[MarkC]

I am not a pistol shooter. I love my little M1 Carbine. My favorite time to use the carbine is during deer season when we drive a small parcel of tall grass and cedar trees. Nothing better than jumping a deer at 10 yards, putting that thick front post on the back of it's head/neck and cracking off 3-4 quick shots putting the deer down. My cousin/hunting partner always jumps at doing the walking just so he can carry the "p-shooter" and make that fun shot!

I guess for me it's M1 Carbine all the way.

I will also agree w/ MRMIKE that the carbine is surprisingly accurate and his claims of 100 and 200 yard accuracy are very true... maybe even on the conservative side.

[sansin g. dio]

I FAVORED THE M1 CARBINE OVER THE THE 45 M-1911.
IN THE PHILIPPINES WHERE PHILIPPINE GOVERNMENT USUALLY
HAVE U.S. SURPLUS FIREARMS FROM THE U.S.,
(CARBINE WAS STILL ISSUED AT PHILIPPINE ARMY & PHILIPPINE
CONSTABULARY ON THE 80S).

THESE FIREARMS (M1 CARBINES) AMMO CAN PENETRATE THROUGH THE TRUNKS OF COCONUT TREES AT 100M (AS WHAT I HAD EXPERIENCE BEFORE)
(2 OF MY BROTHERS WERE PHILIPPINE CONSTABULARY OFFICERS AND I
MYSELF IS A RESERVED PHILIPPINE ARMY OFFICER).

COMPARING TO THE OLD SLABSLIDES AMMO, IT CANNOT PENETRATE THROUGH THE COCO TRUNK AT THAT DISTANCE.

IT WAS THE BEST HANDY WEAPON OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE PHILIPPINES PRIOR TO THE INTRODUCTION OF THE M-14 & M-16.

ENGR. S. G. DIO
LICENSED MECHANICAL ENGINEER - PHILIPPINES
INTERNATIONAL COUNCIL FOR MACHINERY LUBRICATION CERTIFIED - ASME

[Pistolenschutze]

Welcome to TFF, Sansin! Glad to have you with us! It's always especially nice to see a new member from outside the U.S. Relax and enjoin with the group. We sometimes get a little rowdy, but we do have fun.

The M1 carbine has got to be one of the sweetest rifles anyone ever designed. It's light, handy, and powerful enough to get the job done under almost any conditions. Just because it's an old design, doesn't mean it's outdated.

[sansin g. dio]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

Welcome to TFF, Sansin! Glad to have you with us! It's always especially nice to see a new member from outside the U.S. Relax and enjoin with the group. We sometimes get a little rowdy, but we do have fun.

The M1 carbine has got to be one of the sweetest rifles anyone ever designed. It's light, handy, and powerful enough to get the job done under almost any conditions. Just because it's an old design, doesn't mean it's outdated.

Thank you very much Sir. I am a gun enthusiast here in the PHILIPPINES.
It is nice to hear when it comes to firearms technical data and engineering
designs and new firearms innovation.

Again, thanks for accepting me to be part of the group.

Regards.

[Ursus]

Wellcome aboard. sansin!!!

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by sansin g. dio

Thank you very much Sir. I am a gun enthusiast here in the PHILIPPINES.
It is nice to hear when it comes to firearms technical data and engineering
designs and new firearms innovation.

Again, thanks for accepting me to be part of the group.

Regards.

Sansin, if you're a gun enthusiast you'll fit right in here. I suggest you take a quick look at the "Technical Questions" and the "Ask the Pros" forums as well as here in the Military and History Forum each day. That's where a lot of the technical stuff gets posted. If you have a question, don't hesitate to post it. Someone around here will surely have the information you need. Once again, welcome aboard!

[Marlin]

Glad to have you at TFF, sansin q. dio.

It is always a premium and a pleasure to meet an enthusiast from another area outside the US.

[Bruce FLinch]

Welcome Sansin, I loved visiting the P.I. in the 70's while in the Navy.

On the Poll, I chose the .45, the poll didn't ask what the choice was for. I chose the .45 because I can find a storage place for it in my safe. No room for another rifle

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by Bruce FLinch

Welcome Sansin, I loved visiting the P.I. in the 70's while in the Navy.

Ah ha! A Navy man who visited the PI. Tell us about S**t River, Bruce, or better yet, what lies on the other side. No, on second thought, better not. This is a family forum, after all. I do seem to remember though (quite vaguely, of course, being a nice, upstanding, all American kinda guy) a certain R&R I went on during my tour in Vietnam and the . . . well, never mind.

[Bill]

The carbine is so under appreciated. Light weight, quick pointer, easy to carry especially with a sling. Will beat any pistol in accuracy at 50 yds or more. The energy levels of the humble 110 grain bullet and the .44 mag pistol are close to the same. So more energy than the .45 auto too. Bill

[17thfabn]

Bill, I agree with you that the M-1 carbine is a much better weapon than the colt .45. It has a much longer effective range, 200 yards plus versus 50 yards or less for the .45.

It is true that the M-1 carbine has a much higher muzzle energy than the colt 1911. However at short range the .45 round actualy IS more effective than the .30 cal M-1 carbine round. At close ranges the carbine round will go on through an enemy, so much of the energy is wasted. Even if the .45 round goes in and out a .45 hole is bigger than .30 cal hole so the .45 will cause more damage.

So to sum up lets compare the colt 1911 vs the M-1 carbine:

The carbine has a longer effective range, is more accurate at any range, has a 15 or 30 round magazine versus a 7 round magazine for the colt. Even in close in fighting were the .45 round would be more effective, the M-1 carbine is a better choice, due to the larger magazine, and being easier to control.

Why would any one carry a .45 instead of a carbine in combat? Weight! A machine gun or mortar crew member might be issued a hand gun so they could carry more ammo for their crew served weapon.

[nightfighter]

The question I find central to this discussion is: Given that the carbine is slung over the shoulder or carried in the hands and the 1911 is carried in a holster, if you were issued either, would you ever prop the carbine against a tree at any time? Eating, in the latrine, etc.? If yes, then you cannot view the carbine as a replacement...if you do, at sometime or another you could be completely unarmed in a combat zone. It would make more sense to view the carbine as a replacement for the M1 for some troops.

[AL MOUNT]

Originally Posted by Ursus

As you know the M1 carbine was developed as a substitute for the 1911. ?

I didn't know....never had heard that before, but I believe ya.....


Same kind of "military type" thinking......

would replace the bayonet with a double bladed axe.....



I will admit.....

it would be hard to "butt stroke" someone with a 1911......

[markt334]

Real short....the guy on the battlefield with a handgun is suck'en. Any rifle beats a pistol period!

[BIGBOOMER]

For what they were issued for, I would take the 1911. True, the carbine round has more energy, but it is applied to a 110gr bullet vs a 230gr bullet. The 45 has more power. I never had much use for the M1 Carbine. I found it unreliable and underpowered. Though not very accurate, I will concede that it is more so than the issue 1911, but it is less accurate than any of my 44 Magnums. If I were carrying a rifle in combat, in that time frame, it would be the Garand, but I would still want a 1911 along with it. If I didn''t need the Garand, the 1911 alone would do just fine.
Best regards, BIGBOOMER

[markt334]

you are kidding, right Bigboomer? in land combat the only ones armed with a pistol are bad pilots who fell out of the sky!!! a half wit child armed with .22 can take pistol shooters all day. m1 carbine vs. 1911a1 is kind of a weak thread anyway...does not make sense to compare a rifle to pistol.

[Mosin_Nagant_Fan]

1911 with a carbine kit.