It's time for... Name that political party!!! - Page 2 - The Firearms Forum

Pistolenschutze · 02-05-2007, 07:42 PM

Gentlemen, gentlemen, let's keep this discussion on a polite and civil level if you please! Expression of divergent opinions is a fine thing, and part of what TFF is for, but personal attacks have no place here.

Huck Finn · 02-05-2007, 08:14 PM

[QUOTE=Pistolenschutze;233356]Gentlemen, gentlemen, let's keep this discussion on a polite and civil level if you please! Expression of divergent opinions is a fine thing, and part of what TFF is for, but personal attacks have no place here.

If I stepped out of bounds with anything I said, I apologize. Personal attacks are childish & I was raised better than that. Thanks for reining it in before the thread got locked.

azsigman · 02-05-2007, 08:19 PM

I believe I was guilty of what you described Pistolenschutze. My apologies to you and to Huck....

Pistolenschutze · 02-05-2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huck Finn

If I stepped out of bounds with anything I said, I apologize. Personal attacks are childish & I was raised better than that. Thanks for reining it in before the thread got locked.

The caution was not directed at you in particular, Huck. You have as much right as anyone to express your view. I simply don't want to see the discussion devolve into a donnybrook. That only creates hard feelings and helps no one.

Pistolenschutze · 02-05-2007, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azsigman

I believe I was guilty of what you described Pistolenschutze. My apologies to you and to Huck....

No apologies necessary, assigman. But thanks for understanding.

Pat Hurley · 02-05-2007, 09:23 PM

I, for one, enjoyed all the visceral insults and name calling. That's my kind of debate! I think we're far too quick to break up a good ol' fashioned fight before the real action gets underway and a nose or two gets bloodied. These debates are not for the faint of heart. On the contrary, they are purely the domain of the courageous, the learned, the passionate, and the gutsy.

But lost perhaps in the lobbing of pejoratives was the central point I was trying to make; communists are saying nearly the same things, in the same ways, as your run of the mill democrat. Does anyone - especially democrats in this forum - find that fact profoundly disturbing? How can one be intellectually honest and dismiss out of hand the identical rhetoric?!

Now I'm not trying to get Huck and Glock into the Octogon to trade blows, but I am asking a serious question to Huck and others; why are American communists sounding exactly like American democrats these days? Coincidence? Or shared DNA?

Crpdeth · 02-05-2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

I simply don't want to see the discussion devolve into a donnybrook.

A what?!?!?!

Pat Hurley · 02-05-2007, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crpdeth

A what?!?!?!

A "donnybrook" is a spat, verbal altercation, a garden variety argument sans violence.

Huck Finn · 02-05-2007, 10:19 PM

"The (name that party) is the party of and for the U.S. working class, a class which is multiracial, multinational, and unites men and women, young and old, employed and unemployed, organized and unorganized, gay and straight, native-born and immigrant, urban and rural, and composed of workers who perform a large range of physical and mental labor—the vast majority of our society. We are the party of the African American, Mexican American, Puerto Rican, all other Latino American, Native American, Asian American, and all racially and nationally oppressed peoples, as well as women, youth, and all other working people.

The living standards of workers and the natural environment on which life depends are under constant attack due to the drive for maximum profits... Our party fights for jobs and economic security, a decent and rising standard of living, peace, justice, equality, a sustainable environment, gay rights, health care, education, affordable housing, the needs of seniors, democracy, and a fulfilling life for everyone."

While it is a little too wordy, if you take out the high-lighted rhetoric about oppression, it's not a bad platform. I know I'm going to get jumped about the part about "maximum profits" (in blue), I'm sure that we all agree that some land has to be set aside for outdoor recreation. It would certainly help maximize profit if we allowed companies to dump untreated waste in to our rivers, but nobody wants that. Like all good ideas, these too must be tempered with reason. If you read the above with an open mind, I don't see anything in there that our founding fathers wouldn't have approved of. Remember what they said at the very beginning... "All men are created equal".

Pistolenschutze · 02-05-2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat Hurley

A "donnybrook" is a spat, verbal altercation, a garden variety argument sans violence.

Actually not, Pat. According to Webster . . .

Main Entry: don·ny·brook
Pronunciation: 'dä-nE-"bruk
Function: noun
Usage: often capitalized
Etymology: Donnybrook Fair, annual Irish event known for its brawls
1 : FREE-FOR-ALL, BRAWL
2 : a usually public quarrel or dispute

Huck Finn · 02-05-2007, 10:37 PM

My understanding of the term is that it comes from the fairs that they used to hold in Donnybrook, which is a part of Dublin. Seems that the fairs always ended up being a free for all.

Pat Hurley · 02-05-2007, 10:41 PM

See below...

Pat Hurley · 02-05-2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

Actually not, Pat. According to Webster . . .

Main Entry: don·ny·brook
Pronunciation: 'dä-nE-"bruk
Function: noun
Usage: often capitalized
Etymology: Donnybrook Fair, annual Irish event known for its brawls
1 : FREE-FOR-ALL, BRAWL
2 : a usually public quarrel or dispute

I've never used it, nor heard anyone else use it, to describe fistacuffs but I'm not gonna argue with Miriam Webster.

Perhaps the most classic use of this obscure, but delightful word, was when it what used by the late Barry Fitzgerald in the movie "The Quiet Man," starring John Wayne and Maureen O'Hara. He said: "What are we having here, a courtship, or a donnybrook?!"

durk · 02-05-2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

Actually not, Pat. According to Webster . . .

Main Entry: don·ny·brook
Pronunciation: 'dä-nE-"bruk
Function: noun
Usage: often capitalized
Etymology: Donnybrook Fair, annual Irish event known for its brawls
1 : FREE-FOR-ALL, BRAWL
2 : a usually public quarrel or dispute

Well, I'm glad that got cleared up. I thought Donnybrook might have opened for Led Zeppelin once back in the sixties.

OK, let the donnybrook resume.

Huck Finn · 02-05-2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat Hurley

I've never used it, nor heard anyone else use it, to describe a fistacuffs but I'm not gonna argue with Miriam Webster.

Perhaps the most classic use of this obscure, but delightful word, was when it what used by the late Barry Fitzgerald in the movie "The Quiet Man," starring John Wayne and Maureen O'Hara. He said: "What are we having here, a courtship, or a donnybrook?!"

Aren't they sometimes the same thing?

Pat Hurley · 02-05-2007, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat Hurley

But lost perhaps in the lobbing of pejoratives was the central point I was trying to make; communists are saying nearly the same things, in the same ways, as your run of the mill democrat. Does anyone - especially democrats in this forum - find that fact profoundly disturbing? How can one be intellectually honest and dismiss out of hand the identical rhetoric?!

Now I'm not trying to get Huck and Glock into the Octogon to trade blows, but I am asking a serious question to Huck and others; why are American communists sounding exactly like American democrats these days? Coincidence? Or shared DNA?

C'mon Huck... no more dodging. Let's hear it.

Pistolenschutze · 02-05-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huck Finn

Aren't they sometimes the same thing?

Not if one of them first says, "Póg mo thóin," Huck.

berto64 · 02-05-2007, 11:27 PM

Sez whut??

Pistolenschutze · 02-05-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berto64

Sez whut??

Berto, PM on the way for translation.

Huck Finn · 02-05-2007, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

Not if one of them first says, "Póg mo thóin," Huck.

I've always found that a good way to get a Donnybrook started.

Pistolenschutze · 02-05-2007, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huck Finn

I've always found that a good way to get a Donnybrook started.

Too true. Works every time, especially with Irishmen!

Xracer · 02-06-2007, 08:13 AM

I suspect that not a one of you have ever been elected or served in public office.

I have. I ran (as a Republican) and was elected to both town and regional offices where I served with liberals, moderates, conservatives, Republicans and Democrats. I've dealt with town and city officials, state legislators, and U.S. Congressmen (both Representatives and Senators).

A few of them were roques out to feather their own nests, but by far the largest majority of them were good people, trying to do the best they could for the people they represented.

This seems to be Liberal bashing and name calling time here on TFF, and that bothers me.

I've worked with many Liberals (one of them a WWII Medal of Honor recipient), and while we disagreed with each other politically, I never found a one of them anything other than a patriotic American.....or some sort of a political demon.

For the most part, they were good people, trying to do a tough job, who simply held differing political views than me.

And that's OK.....that's what America's all about.

So let's show a little more respect here....and a little less name calling.

Pistolenschutze · 02-06-2007, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xracer

This seems to be Liberal bashing and name calling time here on TFF, and that bothers me.

It bothers me too, X, and your point is a very valid one. As you well know, the political sentiment on this board, and my own as well, is overwhelmingly conservative/libertarian . . . somewhere to the right of Genghis Khan might be a rather more apt description.

That's not terribly surprising considering the main subject matter under discussion here, and to a point, that is all well and good. We must never forget, however, that liberal thinking is also necessary to the growth and progress of any society, else we would find ourselves frozen into a rigid and highly stratified existence not unlike Japan during the Shogunate. It seems to me as well, that if the high-sounding words of the Constitution have any real meaning (and I certainly believe they do), they must apply to all citizens, whatever their views and however much some of us may disagree with those views. If freedom of expression is denied to one, it is axiomatically denied to all. To expound a position or to propose peaceful change is not treason! Just my $.02 worth.

Crpdeth · 02-06-2007, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

Actually not, Pat. According to Webster . . .

Main Entry: don·ny·brook
Pronunciation: 'dä-nE-"bruk
Function: noun
Usage: often capitalized
Etymology: Donnybrook Fair, annual Irish event known for its brawls
1 : FREE-FOR-ALL, BRAWL
2 : a usually public quarrel or dispute

I like it!

Donny

Xracer · 02-06-2007, 10:50 AM

Good point, PS. I'm a Northeastern Republican, and we tend to be more moderate than many of the more rabid conservatives.

And let's not forget that many of the policies, ideas, and programs that are now mainstream (such as unemployment insurance, Social Security, and Medicare) were once opposed by conservatives as being, Socalistic, Communistic, or worse....unAmerican.

02-05-2007, 07:42 PM	#26
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Re: It's time for... Name that political party!!! Gentlemen, gentlemen, let's keep this discussion on a polite and civil level if you please! Expression of divergent opinions is a fine thing, and part of what TFF is for, but personal attacks have no place here. __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)

02-05-2007, 08:14 PM	#27
Huck Finn Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 836	Re: It's time for... Name that political party!!! [QUOTE=Pistolenschutze;233356]Gentlemen, gentlemen, let's keep this discussion on a polite and civil level if you please! Expression of divergent opinions is a fine thing, and part of what TFF is for, but personal attacks have no place here. If I stepped out of bounds with anything I said, I apologize. Personal attacks are childish & I was raised better than that. Thanks for reining it in before the thread got locked. __________________ Tiocfaidh Ár Lá ! "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"

02-05-2007, 08:19 PM	#28
azsigman V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Flagstaff, Arizona Posts: 320	Re: It's time for... Name that political party!!! I believe I was guilty of what you described Pistolenschutze. My apologies to you and to Huck....

02-05-2007, 09:23 PM	#31
Pat Hurley Former Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 987	Re: It's time for... Name that political party!!! I, for one, enjoyed all the visceral insults and name calling. That's my kind of debate! I think we're far too quick to break up a good ol' fashioned fight before the real action gets underway and a nose or two gets bloodied. These debates are not for the faint of heart. On the contrary, they are purely the domain of the courageous, the learned, the passionate, and the gutsy. But lost perhaps in the lobbing of pejoratives was the central point I was trying to make; communists are saying nearly the same things, in the same ways, as your run of the mill democrat. Does anyone - especially democrats in this forum - find that fact profoundly disturbing? How can one be intellectually honest and dismiss out of hand the identical rhetoric?! Now I'm not trying to get Huck and Glock into the Octogon to trade blows, but I am asking a serious question to Huck and others; why are American communists sounding exactly like American democrats these days? Coincidence? Or shared DNA? Last edited by Pat Hurley; 02-05-2007 at 09:25 PM.. Reason: can't spell for st anymore

02-05-2007, 10:19 PM	#34
Huck Finn Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 836	Re: It's time for... Name that political party!!! "The (name that party) is the party of and for the U.S. working class, a class which is multiracial, multinational, and unites men and women, young and old, employed and unemployed, organized and unorganized, gay and straight, native-born and immigrant, urban and rural, and composed of workers who perform a large range of physical and mental labor—the vast majority of our society. We are the party of the African American, Mexican American, Puerto Rican, all other Latino American, Native American, Asian American, and all racially and nationally oppressed peoples, as well as women, youth, and all other working people. The living standards of workers and the natural environment on which life depends are under constant attack due to the drive for maximum profits... Our party fights for jobs and economic security, a decent and rising standard of living, peace, justice, equality, a sustainable environment, gay rights, health care, education, affordable housing, the needs of seniors, democracy, and a fulfilling life for everyone." While it is a little too wordy, if you take out the high-lighted rhetoric about oppression, it's not a bad platform. I know I'm going to get jumped about the part about "maximum profits" (in blue), I'm sure that we all agree that some land has to be set aside for outdoor recreation. It would certainly help maximize profit if we allowed companies to dump untreated waste in to our rivers, but nobody wants that. Like all good ideas, these too must be tempered with reason. If you read the above with an open mind, I don't see anything in there that our founding fathers wouldn't have approved of. Remember what they said at the very beginning... "All men are created equal". __________________ Tiocfaidh Ár Lá ! "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"

02-05-2007, 10:37 PM	#36
Huck Finn Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 836	Re: It's time for... Name that political party!!! My understanding of the term is that it comes from the fairs that they used to hold in Donnybrook, which is a part of Dublin. Seems that the fairs always ended up being a free for all. __________________ Tiocfaidh Ár Lá ! "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"

02-05-2007, 10:41 PM	#37
Pat Hurley Former Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 987	Re: It's time for... Name that political party!!! See below... Last edited by Pat Hurley; 02-05-2007 at 10:47 PM..

02-05-2007, 11:27 PM	#43
berto64 VMBB Admin Staff Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Owyhee County, Idaho Contributor Posts: 7,394	Re: It's time for... Name that political party!!! Sez whut?? __________________ Be who you are & say what you will, Those that matter won't mind and those that mind don't matter. I'm a bitter clinger, One Nation Under God.

02-06-2007, 08:13 AM	#47
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: It's time for... Name that political party!!! I suspect that not a one of you have ever been elected or served in public office. I have. I ran (as a Republican) and was elected to both town and regional offices where I served with liberals, moderates, conservatives, Republicans and Democrats. I've dealt with town and city officials, state legislators, and U.S. Congressmen (both Representatives and Senators). A few of them were roques out to feather their own nests, but by far the largest majority of them were good people, trying to do the best they could for the people they represented. This seems to be Liberal bashing and name calling time here on TFF, and that bothers me. I've worked with many Liberals (one of them a WWII Medal of Honor recipient), and while we disagreed with each other politically, I never found a one of them anything other than a patriotic American.....or some sort of a political demon. For the most part, they were good people, trying to do a tough job, who simply held differing political views than me. And that's OK.....that's what America's all about. So let's show a little more respect here....and a little less name calling.

02-06-2007, 10:50 AM	#50
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: It's time for... Name that political party!!! Good point, PS. I'm a Northeastern Republican, and we tend to be more moderate than many of the more rabid conservatives. And let's not forget that many of the policies, ideas, and programs that are now mainstream (such as unemployment insurance, Social Security, and Medicare) were once opposed by conservatives as being, Socalistic, Communistic, or worse....unAmerican.