with or without one on the chamber???? - The Firearms Forum

gunlearner · 02-16-2007, 04:09 PM

hello again
i have worked for the past 5 years with USAF and some friends i had were as much gun freaks as i am so i tried to get as much knowlege from this gun gurus.
one of the topics that brings more conflict in meeting with friend from ecuador is the topic which is the title of this thread.

i carry like i said in another topic my pt99 with one on chamber half cocked and no safety (maybe because i thing is safe enough).

most people tell me am crazy to carry it like that

what do you people think about this???

(if i had a glock maybe i would not do it but i have not had one yet)

VR

gunlearner

Deputy Dawg · 02-16-2007, 04:25 PM

I guees we both are crazy then, because I carry my Glock with one in the chamber.Just remember to keep your finger off of ther trigger untill you are ready to shoot.

Shooter45 · 02-16-2007, 04:53 PM

I carry an M 1911 cocked and locked. An empty pistol is useless. If you think you can chamber a round when in trouble, try it sometime. In a fast happening situation, you hardly have time to think. Chambering a round under pressure is a hard thing to do. Motor skills just aren't as they should be. As far as carring half cocked with no safety on, you are asking for trouble. Safety's are made to be used.

Pistolenschutze · 02-16-2007, 08:33 PM

In my opinion, gunlearner, you would be crazy not to carry the way you do! As far as I am concerned, if you carry an auto pistol without one "up the spout," you may as well just carry a club . . . or a rock!

I always carry my Glocks that way, not to mention my P-230 Sig. The PT-99, as you know, is essentially the same design as the Beretta 92. It's a double/single action pistol. With the hammer decocked, you have a double action. It's no more unsafe than carrying a double action revolver. Because of the fairly heavy trigger pull, the weapon is not unsafe without a safety.

southernshooter · 02-16-2007, 10:33 PM

I carry one in the pipe and cocked and I carry a XD which doesn't have any of those fumblesome safetys. Just pull the trigger and bang.

pickenup · 02-16-2007, 11:35 PM

I carry a SIG, one in the chamber, hammer down, there is no external safety.

gunlearner · 02-17-2007, 05:34 AM

i put this topic to discussion because in ecuador there is a big influence of israeli methods and one of them is to carry with out one in the chamber.
i believe that israeli trained people are among the best in the world, however most of us have not trained the way they do.
one israeli trainer told me that its too dangerous to carry the weapon like that and that my choise is the american style.
and i know the problem with this, is that due to the lack of education on weapons most carriers place their finger on the triger or close to it.
i met someone that has a taurus 24/7 and as far as i know they are safe pistols. he was carrying it on a normal fanny pack (not made for pistols) and when he pull it out a round went off and shot him self in the leg. i don't know what happened but i think he place his finger on the trigger.
another friend of mine was in his hacienda and saw some people that were not supposed to be there so he got nervous (1 thing) and placed his 38 revolver on his leg and because he was speeding in his truck, hit something on the road and when the car jumped a round fired and shot himself in the leg.
and like this i have another 20 stories

gl

rosierita · 02-17-2007, 09:03 AM

i carry a revolver, so.... i guess this dont apply to me.

Deputy Dawg · 02-17-2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosierita

i carry a revolver, so.... i guess this dont apply to me.

That depends,do you carry 6 rounds or five rounds in a six shot revolver.Back in the old days some people did not carrry a round in the cylinder behind the hammer.

Pistolenschutze · 02-17-2007, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deputy Dawg

That depends,do you carry 6 rounds or five rounds in a six shot revolver.Back in the old days some people did not carrry a round in the cylinder behind the hammer.

Very true, Dawg, but that was mostly because the design of revolvers of that day didn't have hammer blocks. They could discharge if hit or dropped. I would consider that not such a serious problem today. I always carry a round in every cylinder when I carry a revolver.

rosierita · 02-17-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deputy Dawg

That depends,do you carry 6 rounds or five rounds in a six shot revolver.Back in the old days some people did not carrry a round in the cylinder behind the hammer.

6 in 6!

Deputy Dawg · 02-17-2007, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

Very true, Dawg, but that was mostly because the design of revolvers of that day didn't have hammer blocks. They could discharge if hit or dropped. I would consider that not such a serious problem today. I always carry a round in every cylinder when I carry a revolver.

I knew that, really I did.

Jay · 02-17-2007, 06:46 PM

Quote:

with or without one on the chamber??

I parallel the question with should I keep air in my spare tire ???

SouthernMoss · 02-17-2007, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunlearner

due to the lack of education on weapons most carriers place their finger on the triger or close to it.

That's why it's very important to learn the rules of gun safety, one of which is: finger OFF the trigger until ready to fire.

Pistolenschutze · 02-17-2007, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernMoss

That's why it's very important to learn the rules of gun safety, one of which is: finger OFF the trigger until ready to fire.

Absopositively, SoMo! Especially (but not only) true with an auto pistol like a Glock or other striker-fired piece.

obxned · 03-10-2007, 11:19 PM

If the need arises, do you really think you can afford the time required to chamber a round?

board917 · 05-07-2007, 07:57 PM

you carry a gun for "self DEFENSE" not offesnse... the attacker is gonna make the first move so hes already one step ahead of you. If the attacker happens to have a gun or a knife and u try to draw ur firearm and chamber it u r probably gonna get shot or stabbed. the only thing you have on your side with a concealed is the gun itself and the element of suprise. If the attacker thinks you are reaching for you wallet then hes in for a hell of a suprise when he hears shots fired and he didnt pull the trigger. Which brings up another point : when at the range dont forget to squeeze a few off from the hip cowboy style.

southernshooter · 05-07-2007, 08:20 PM

Something for everyone to remember escpecially if you carry hollow points is that they can jam and if you try to rack the slide to chamber one and it hangs up on the feed ramp, You are officially screwed, If their is one in the pipe you atleast have one shot

hoser1 · 05-10-2007, 11:17 PM

Cocked & Locked

patrol · 05-20-2007, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunlearner

i put this topic to discussion because in ecuador there is a big influence of israeli methods and one of them is to carry with out one in the chamber.
i believe that israeli trained people are among the best in the world, however most of us have not trained the way they do.
one israeli trainer told me that its too dangerous to carry the weapon like that and that my choise is the american style.
and i know the problem with this, is that due to the lack of education on weapons most carriers place their finger on the triger or close to it.
i met someone that has a taurus 24/7 and as far as i know they are safe pistols. he was carrying it on a normal fanny pack (not made for pistols) and when he pull it out a round went off and shot him self in the leg. i don't know what happened but i think he place his finger on the trigger.
another friend of mine was in his hacienda and saw some people that were not supposed to be there so he got nervous (1 thing) and placed his 38 revolver on his leg and because he was speeding in his truck, hit something on the road and when the car jumped a round fired and shot himself in the leg.
and like this i have another 20 stories

gl

I was a marine and I thought all service as well as Police trained finger outside the trigger guard and straight down the frame of the weapon until ready to fire this keeps from conduct like you mentioned and also keeps you from breaking your finger if someone grabs and twist your weapon away . back when I first was a marine we carried the 1911 colts condition two which is how the israelis do it and we trained to rack the slide as we brought the pistol up from the holster into shooting position and you would be surprised how fast you can do this when you train that way but now adays with decockers keeping the hammer at a half cock position it is safe to carry it condition one just as long as you train finger outside trigger guard.

Pat Hurley · 05-20-2007, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunlearner

i put this topic to discussion because in ecuador there is a big influence of israeli methods and one of them is to carry with out one in the chamber.
i believe that israeli trained people are among the best in the world, however most of us have not trained the way they do.
one israeli trainer told me that its too dangerous to carry the weapon like that and that my choise is the american style.
and i know the problem with this, is that due to the lack of education on weapons most carriers place their finger on the triger or close to it.
i met someone that has a taurus 24/7 and as far as i know they are safe pistols. he was carrying it on a normal fanny pack (not made for pistols) and when he pull it out a round went off and shot him self in the leg. i don't know what happened but i think he place his finger on the trigger.
another friend of mine was in his hacienda and saw some people that were not supposed to be there so he got nervous (1 thing) and placed his 38 revolver on his leg and because he was speeding in his truck, hit something on the road and when the car jumped a round fired and shot himself in the leg.
and like this i have another 20 stories

gl

I can confirm that Israeli's don't keep one in the chamber. That's probably because they're faster at racking one and then firing on target, then 90% of people who keep one in the chamber.

About five years ago, I went shooting with two of my company's former Shin-Bet members. Talk about being humbled and humiliated. They wore a business suit and kept their Glock's (yuk!) in the small of their back. On the word "go" they crouched, drew while racking, and emptied a full clip in the center mass of an Osama Bin Laden likeness, before I could get off two rounds and my gun was much more accessible than theirs. In summary, if this were a real world gun fight, I'd have had about 10 rounds in me before my first shot would have left the barrell.

These guys are scary good. They are professional and lethal to the extreme, and though I far outrank all of them, I've made it a point to stay on their good sides. It is hard to argue with the efficacy of their methods though we might find them unorthodox.

Perhaps the lesson here is a simple one... if you can rack and shoot with the speed and accuracy of an Israeli agent, then there's no need to keep one in the chamber. If not, you'd better find a way to leave one in there safely.

Kahr · 05-21-2007, 08:20 PM

I carry a Smith 5906 chambered with the safety off.

Edit: Just thought I would specify a couple things, one the DA on this weapon is equivalent to a revolver so I don't see the need for the safety, and two I carry in a pancake with a thumb break so no accidentals. anyway that's all I guess.

gunlearner · 05-28-2007, 11:54 AM

thanks everyone for your comments. i guess the real questions would be what do you feel more confortable with??? and if you were the instructor what method would you recomend your students???

ki4dmh · 07-23-2007, 11:09 PM

I always carry with one in the chamber. My personal preference.
Scott

graehaven · 07-24-2007, 07:50 AM

Always carry with one in the pipe.

You don't have enough time in a bad situation to do anything but draw, take aim, and fire.

Safety? I refuse to even consider carrying a handgun that has a manual safety. And i won't buy one. Had one (my first gun - a Bersa .380 - the early model) and i don't carry it anymore.

I am the the safety.

02-16-2007, 04:09 PM	#1
gunlearner V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 73	with or without one on the chamber???? hello again i have worked for the past 5 years with USAF and some friends i had were as much gun freaks as i am so i tried to get as much knowlege from this gun gurus. one of the topics that brings more conflict in meeting with friend from ecuador is the topic which is the title of this thread. i carry like i said in another topic my pt99 with one on chamber half cocked and no safety (maybe because i thing is safe enough). most people tell me am crazy to carry it like that what do you people think about this??? (if i had a glock maybe i would not do it but i have not had one yet) VR gunlearner -->

02-16-2007, 04:25 PM	#2
Deputy Dawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Central Texas Gulf Coast Posts: 2,235	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? I guees we both are crazy then, because I carry my Glock with one in the chamber.Just remember to keep your finger off of ther trigger untill you are ready to shoot. __________________ LOCK and LOAD................................... GOD, GUNS,GUTS the three that keep us FREE!!!!

02-16-2007, 04:53 PM	#3
Shooter45 Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Contributor Posts: 8,790	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? I carry an M 1911 cocked and locked. An empty pistol is useless. If you think you can chamber a round when in trouble, try it sometime. In a fast happening situation, you hardly have time to think. Chambering a round under pressure is a hard thing to do. Motor skills just aren't as they should be. As far as carring half cocked with no safety on, you are asking for trouble. Safety's are made to be used.

02-16-2007, 08:33 PM	#4
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? In my opinion, gunlearner, you would be crazy not to carry the way you do! As far as I am concerned, if you carry an auto pistol without one "up the spout," you may as well just carry a club . . . or a rock! I always carry my Glocks that way, not to mention my P-230 Sig. The PT-99, as you know, is essentially the same design as the Beretta 92. It's a double/single action pistol. With the hammer decocked, you have a double action. It's no more unsafe than carrying a double action revolver. Because of the fairly heavy trigger pull, the weapon is not unsafe without a safety. __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)

02-16-2007, 10:33 PM	#5
southernshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep South Mississippi Posts: 5,943	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? I carry one in the pipe and cocked and I carry a XD which doesn't have any of those fumblesome safetys. Just pull the trigger and bang. __________________ Only you can see this

02-16-2007, 11:35 PM	#6
pickenup Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains Posts: 6,841	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? I carry a SIG, one in the chamber, hammer down, there is no external safety. __________________ The gene pool needs chlorine

02-17-2007, 05:34 AM	#7
gunlearner V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 73	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? i put this topic to discussion because in ecuador there is a big influence of israeli methods and one of them is to carry with out one in the chamber. i believe that israeli trained people are among the best in the world, however most of us have not trained the way they do. one israeli trainer told me that its too dangerous to carry the weapon like that and that my choise is the american style. and i know the problem with this, is that due to the lack of education on weapons most carriers place their finger on the triger or close to it. i met someone that has a taurus 24/7 and as far as i know they are safe pistols. he was carrying it on a normal fanny pack (not made for pistols) and when he pull it out a round went off and shot him self in the leg. i don't know what happened but i think he place his finger on the trigger. another friend of mine was in his hacienda and saw some people that were not supposed to be there so he got nervous (1 thing) and placed his 38 revolver on his leg and because he was speeding in his truck, hit something on the road and when the car jumped a round fired and shot himself in the leg. and like this i have another 20 stories gl

02-17-2007, 09:03 AM	#8
rosierita Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: South Carolina Posts: 5,218	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? i carry a revolver, so.... i guess this dont apply to me. __________________

03-10-2007, 11:19 PM	#16
obxned Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,342	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? If the need arises, do you really think you can afford the time required to chamber a round?

05-07-2007, 07:57 PM	#17
board917 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 76	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? you carry a gun for "self DEFENSE" not offesnse... the attacker is gonna make the first move so hes already one step ahead of you. If the attacker happens to have a gun or a knife and u try to draw ur firearm and chamber it u r probably gonna get shot or stabbed. the only thing you have on your side with a concealed is the gun itself and the element of suprise. If the attacker thinks you are reaching for you wallet then hes in for a hell of a suprise when he hears shots fired and he didnt pull the trigger. Which brings up another point : when at the range dont forget to squeeze a few off from the hip cowboy style.

05-07-2007, 08:20 PM	#18
southernshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep South Mississippi Posts: 5,943	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? Something for everyone to remember escpecially if you carry hollow points is that they can jam and if you try to rack the slide to chamber one and it hangs up on the feed ramp, You are officially screwed, If their is one in the pipe you atleast have one shot __________________ Only you can see this

05-10-2007, 11:17 PM	#19
hoser1 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ark-La-Tex Posts: 271	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? Cocked & Locked

05-21-2007, 08:20 PM	#22
Kahr V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Covington, GA. Posts: 146	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? I carry a Smith 5906 chambered with the safety off. Edit: Just thought I would specify a couple things, one the DA on this weapon is equivalent to a revolver so I don't see the need for the safety, and two I carry in a pancake with a thumb break so no accidentals. anyway that's all I guess. __________________ You don't want to see me in all black with them choppers, fully automatic sounding like a helicopter. Last edited by Kahr; 05-21-2007 at 08:24 PM..

05-28-2007, 11:54 AM	#23
gunlearner V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 73	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? thanks everyone for your comments. i guess the real questions would be what do you feel more confortable with??? and if you were the instructor what method would you recomend your students???

07-23-2007, 11:09 PM	#24
ki4dmh Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Occupied State of Confusion Posts: 22	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? I always carry with one in the chamber. My personal preference. Scott __________________ "If you are warrior a who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today."

07-24-2007, 07:50 AM	#25
graehaven Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,853	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? Always carry with one in the pipe. You don't have enough time in a bad situation to do anything but draw, take aim, and fire. Safety? I refuse to even consider carrying a handgun that has a manual safety. And i won't buy one. Had one (my first gun - a Bersa .380 - the early model) and i don't carry it anymore. I am the the safety.