Is the Shotgun still a viable military weapon? - The Firearms Forum

kfb2b · 04-23-2007, 04:09 PM

I really wonder. The ammo is heavy and not much can be carried, especially in comparison to the 5.56 or even the 7.62x51. The recent Atchisson shotgun that everyon is makings so much of is as heavy as a GPMG, and less effective than the M203, and the gunner cannot carry as much ammo. The cartridge has very limited range (in comparison to 5.56, 5.45, 7.62, 40mm grenades, etc), and does not remove doors much better than a 7.62 weapon, and the idea of it being a "streetsweeper" is more myth than reality. I am even curious to know, by those who have been there, if the shot-gunner must be protected by those who carry more ammo, or is others must carry the shogunner's ammo, much like the BAR was used in many squads. Although my Grandaddy was issued and used one to great effectiveness in WW1, those days are gone, and I am tlaking about today's battlefield, not WW1,2, or even Vietnam, and finally, I note that it seems to never show up in news footage from Iraq or anywhere else.

If you think it is viable or not viable, then please state why, and thanks for all's input

bdfinst · 04-23-2007, 06:20 PM

Read this month's American Rifleman.

pawn · 04-23-2007, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdfinst

Read this month's American Rifleman.

yes, i really enjoyed the write-up on mossberg shotguns in the military

Rommelvon · 04-23-2007, 07:37 PM

Yes, I carried a Mossberg590-A1 in the army during CQB, I'd take the mossy over any other weapon out there for CQB and home defence......nothing clears a hallway like a shotgun with buckshot, IMHO the shotgun is the most versatile weapon out there and I wouldn't wanna be without one, and no weapon does as much critical damage to an enemy as a shotgun IE 5.56 little hole--mossberg 590 loaded with triple buck.....equals entire midsection of enemy gone

southernshooter · 04-23-2007, 09:05 PM

Yes it is a valuable tool, I can't think of anything better for close quarter combat, MP5's are good for CQB but it still ain't no 12 gauge with buckshot

Marlin · 04-24-2007, 08:55 AM

I agree with Southern. In close quarters nothing is better, when considering only firearms as the tool.....

Pistolenschutze · 04-24-2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marlin

I agree with Southern. In close quarters nothing is better, when considering only firearms as the tool.....

+1 for Southern and Marlin. Absolutely nothing, not even a fully automatic weapon, beats a shotgun at close quarters.

17thfabn · 04-27-2007, 02:58 PM

The shotgun is a very good tool for special situations, close in combat.

If you had to carry only one weapon in combat it WOULD NOT be the shot gun. The shot gun is realy only good for short range fighting. Out much past fifty yards buck shot loses it's power very quickly. I know you can use slugs for longer range, but an assault rifle or full combat rifle is more effective at these ranges. An assault rifle is more versitile. It is good for close combat and ranges out to 300 + meters.

If you remember it's limitations a shot gun is an excellent niche tool. Since our troops often have vehiclular transport it would make sense to carry a shot gun or two with the vehicle for close combat entry teams.

I saw some where a prototype single barrel shot gun that could be mounted under an M-16, much the same way a 40mm grenade launcher is mounted.

Speaking of 40mm grenade launchers and shot guns, at one time there was a shot gun type round for the 40mm. Do they still have this type of round?

polishshooter · 04-27-2007, 10:26 PM

There was plenty of footage of shotguns in action during the initial drive on Baghdad, and I have seen many photos of "entry teams" carrying at least one, however I agree about and have heard many accounts of them being used as "door openers," that they didn't work all that well and were dangerous to the rest of the team used that way to boot (most teams learned the old 10 or 12 pound sledge worked better)...but AFTER the door was down I'd want nothing else but a shotgun in my hands (AFTER the grenades went in....) (but then I'm prejudiced...

)

As for the ammo situation, yes, you are not going to carry 300+ rounds like with an M4, but you can never sHOOT as many in the same time as an M4, the rate of fire is substantially less, while the WEIGHT of fire would be comparable...in other words, a shotgunner, firing as fast as he can reload, will only fire 10-12 shots in the same engagement compared to the two or three mags of the M16, but at close range may the shotgunner may be more effective....IMO

Rommelvon · 04-28-2007, 01:12 AM

In a tactical situation 40 yards and less, I'll take my mossberg with 000 buckshot or slugs, beyony this out to 400 yards Ill take a FN FAL or a garand...beyond 400 gimme a psg-1 or a rem 700

iwas1ncthr · 05-08-2007, 01:17 AM

http://www.usmcweapons.com/articles/M1014/M1014NF.htm

The USMC's new shotgun is definatly a work of art. As I have always loved Benelli this non pump shotgun is proveing to be quite the talk for cqc.

bunnyhunter12 · 05-08-2007, 11:42 PM

Master Key system is real interesting. Super short 870 mounted under-barrel on M16/M4.

View Poll Results: Is the Shotgun a viable weapon on today's battlefield?
No, the shotgun is outmoded by better technological advancements in arms	2	7.41%
Yes, the shotgun still deserves a spot on today's battlefield	25	92.59%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

04-23-2007, 04:09 PM	#1
kfb2b V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 56	Is the Shotgun still a viable military weapon? I really wonder. The ammo is heavy and not much can be carried, especially in comparison to the 5.56 or even the 7.62x51. The recent Atchisson shotgun that everyon is makings so much of is as heavy as a GPMG, and less effective than the M203, and the gunner cannot carry as much ammo. The cartridge has very limited range (in comparison to 5.56, 5.45, 7.62, 40mm grenades, etc), and does not remove doors much better than a 7.62 weapon, and the idea of it being a "streetsweeper" is more myth than reality. I am even curious to know, by those who have been there, if the shot-gunner must be protected by those who carry more ammo, or is others must carry the shogunner's ammo, much like the BAR was used in many squads. Although my Grandaddy was issued and used one to great effectiveness in WW1, those days are gone, and I am tlaking about today's battlefield, not WW1,2, or even Vietnam, and finally, I note that it seems to never show up in news footage from Iraq or anywhere else. If you think it is viable or not viable, then please state why, and thanks for all's input -->

04-23-2007, 06:20 PM	#2
bdfinst Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 40	Re: Is the Shotgun still a viable military weapon? Read this month's American Rifleman.

04-23-2007, 07:37 PM	#4
Rommelvon Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Goldsboro, NC Posts: 1,452	Re: Is the Shotgun still a viable military weapon? Yes, I carried a Mossberg590-A1 in the army during CQB, I'd take the mossy over any other weapon out there for CQB and home defence......nothing clears a hallway like a shotgun with buckshot, IMHO the shotgun is the most versatile weapon out there and I wouldn't wanna be without one, and no weapon does as much critical damage to an enemy as a shotgun IE 5.56 little hole--mossberg 590 loaded with triple buck.....equals entire midsection of enemy gone __________________ When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. --Thomas Jefferson American By Birth, Southern By The Grace Of God Deo vindice "Duty is the most sublime word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less.” Robert E Lee Last edited by Rommelvon; 04-23-2007 at 07:43 PM..

04-23-2007, 09:05 PM	#5
southernshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep South Mississippi Posts: 5,943	Re: Is the Shotgun still a viable military weapon? Yes it is a valuable tool, I can't think of anything better for close quarter combat, MP5's are good for CQB but it still ain't no 12 gauge with buckshot __________________ Only you can see this

04-24-2007, 08:55 AM	#6
Marlin TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: At SouthernMoss' side forever! Contributor Posts: 13,854	Re: Is the Shotgun still a viable military weapon? I agree with Southern. In close quarters nothing is better, when considering only firearms as the tool..... __________________ *The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.* *The only criminal class native to the United States is Congress.*

04-27-2007, 02:58 PM	#8
17thfabn Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: North bank of the mighty Ohio River Posts: 847	Re: Is the Shotgun still a viable military weapon? The shotgun is a very good tool for special situations, close in combat. If you had to carry only one weapon in combat it WOULD NOT be the shot gun. The shot gun is realy only good for short range fighting. Out much past fifty yards buck shot loses it's power very quickly. I know you can use slugs for longer range, but an assault rifle or full combat rifle is more effective at these ranges. An assault rifle is more versitile. It is good for close combat and ranges out to 300 + meters. If you remember it's limitations a shot gun is an excellent niche tool. Since our troops often have vehiclular transport it would make sense to carry a shot gun or two with the vehicle for close combat entry teams. I saw some where a prototype single barrel shot gun that could be mounted under an M-16, much the same way a 40mm grenade launcher is mounted. Speaking of 40mm grenade launchers and shot guns, at one time there was a shot gun type round for the 40mm. Do they still have this type of round? __________________ "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world!" Albert Einstein "The opportunist thinks of me and today. The statesman thinks of us and tomorrow." Dwight D. Eisenhower, U.S. President & Five Star General. Rock and Roll forever, rap, hip hop and disco never!

04-27-2007, 10:26 PM	#9
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,879	Re: Is the Shotgun still a viable military weapon? There was plenty of footage of shotguns in action during the initial drive on Baghdad, and I have seen many photos of "entry teams" carrying at least one, however I agree about and have heard many accounts of them being used as "door openers," that they didn't work all that well and were dangerous to the rest of the team used that way to boot (most teams learned the old 10 or 12 pound sledge worked better)...but AFTER the door was down I'd want nothing else but a shotgun in my hands (AFTER the grenades went in....) (but then I'm prejudiced... ) As for the ammo situation, yes, you are not going to carry 300+ rounds like with an M4, but you can never sHOOT as many in the same time as an M4, the rate of fire is substantially less, while the WEIGHT of fire would be comparable...in other words, a shotgunner, firing as fast as he can reload, will only fire 10-12 shots in the same engagement compared to the two or three mags of the M16, but at close range may the shotgunner may be more effective....IMO __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

04-28-2007, 01:12 AM	#10
Rommelvon Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Goldsboro, NC Posts: 1,452	Re: Is the Shotgun still a viable military weapon? In a tactical situation 40 yards and less, I'll take my mossberg with 000 buckshot or slugs, beyony this out to 400 yards Ill take a FN FAL or a garand...beyond 400 gimme a psg-1 or a rem 700 __________________ When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. --Thomas Jefferson American By Birth, Southern By The Grace Of God Deo vindice "Duty is the most sublime word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less.” Robert E Lee

05-08-2007, 01:17 AM	#11
iwas1ncthr Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Holyoke, MA Posts: 3	Re: Is the Shotgun still a viable military weapon? http://www.usmcweapons.com/articles/M1014/M1014NF.htm The USMC's new shotgun is definatly a work of art. As I have always loved Benelli this non pump shotgun is proveing to be quite the talk for cqc.

05-08-2007, 11:42 PM	#12
bunnyhunter12 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,090	Re: Is the Shotgun still a viable military weapon? Master Key system is real interesting. Super short 870 mounted under-barrel on M16/M4.