458 alpine

[bigjedd]

I am new to this forum so if my query is out of line sorry for that .
I was on a local forum downunder and a chap has just made up what he claims is his new round which he is calling a 458 alpine.
What he has done is basically taken a wsm case and necked it out to 458 calibre given it a 40 degree shoulder and almost straight case. He uses the 300gr projectile in 458 and is getting some good results on sambar deer with the cartridge.
Does anyone know if this is a new round or has it been done before (most likely it has) advantages are it will fit into a short action so can be chambered for any make rifle. With the results he is getting I cant help but wonder what might happen with the new 375 ruger round necked up to 458 and if this would be a more viable choice as factory brass should will be readily available to start from. ( although it is only from one manufacturer at the present time)

regards Bigjedd

[Popgunner]

Welcome to the forum Jed

Using the WSM case I can't imagine that wildcat outperforming say something like the 45-70 or 444. It's very tough to come up with a wildcat that outperforms some factory load. There are so many factory loads now that cover pretty much every need.

One of my neighbors at the business park where my business is makes custom rifles & chambers them all for wildcat calibers that he comes up with. I was in his shop a while ago when a guy came in to pick up a rifle that had been made for him in a caliber that was .22 & based on the 378 Weatherby mag that my neighbor had come up with. The guy was told that the rifle would be instant death on anything he pointed it at but that it would only last 40 rounds before the throat would errode out & so he should choose his shots very carefuly. People do have a fascination in creating their own wildcats.

[BIGBOOMER]

I would have to agree that it would be hard to beat the old 45/70 with any wildcat you could make on the WSM case. If you must have it in a short action bolt gun, then how about the 450 Marlin, which is just the 45/70 with a belt instead of a rim, which makes it compatible with more bolt actions.
As to necking up the 375 Ruger to 458, why not just go with the 458 WinMag or 458 Lott, and have the same thing for a lot less trouble.
Wildcats are a pain in the butt, only worth it if they give you something you couldn't get in a commercial chambering.
Best regards, BIGBOOMER

[mtnboomer]

Sounds like something between the .458 SOCOM (basically a .454 Casull case full-length and untrimmed with a rebated rim and extractor groove) and the .458 American (.458 Win Mag case cut down to 2 1/2"). As it has been written many times, there are few new wildcat cartridges that haven already been created.

[bigjedd]

Guys
Sorry I havent answered your replies been off on a business trip which didnt give me any access to the computer.
I must say Thanks for your informative information on this subject as I expected most things have been done before its really just reinventing the wheel.
The reason this chap did this is so that he can use the cartridge in a standard length action without the cost of a larger more expensive magnum action. The type of hunting he is doing is on sambar deer over scent trailing hounds where the shot is taken at never more than 100yds mostly in thick scrub. In Australia the sambar deer are a very tenacious and tough animal which can with withstand some reasonably heavy firepower. The animals charectaristicly go into what we call a death run where the animal will run for 100 to 200 yds or more after being shot in a vital kill zone. The type of scrub we hunt in is such that a poor placed shot or light calibrer will allow the deer to run on and at times they can be almost impossible to find.( Legal Min calibre for sambar hunting in Australia is 270 with a minum case length of 2".)
Whilst the most popular calibres for this hunting are .308 or 338 and plenty of deer have been taken with these calibres. He feels this cartridge will give him the knockdown power for instant one shot kills in a handy size firearm.

[mtnboomer]

Why not just chamber a rife for the .450 Marlin and load it with pointed bullets. Brass is plentiful and chambering reamers aren't a custom order deal. He'd have near .458 Win. Mag. power in a compact package.

[bigjedd]

mtnboomer, I guess if we lived in USA we probably wouldnt have the need to look at wildcatting to come up with what we require but over here in aussie land we dont have the coverage of calibres you do. I will say I think this chap is going to the extreme tho. I cant see why a 375H&H wouldnt do the same thing for him or even the venerable 45/70marlin. I suppose if he has it in his head to try something that makes him feel unique good luck to him.

[polishshooter]

I would suspect he has some stubborness in him too...I can only imagine shooting my first deer with my cartridge...


The only thing i can't figure out, is why didn't he name the cartridge after HIMSELF?

That way, some major factory picks it up he's IMORTALIZED....


(I'm still working on my own, the .220/.50 BMG "Polish Powerhouse" even though the rifles will probably weigh like 110 lbs with the integral tripod/Maxim sledge and optional AA mount....it will be a HELLUVA varmint/deer/sparrow gun! )

[JohnK3]

Yeah, Polish, and the barrel will be shot-out after 10 rounds!

[polishshooter]

John, actually I think I'll be OK with it for at least 20 or 30 shots, especially after I gave up on the "squeeze-bore" method to "fire-swage" it down to .17 cal on the way out...

[armedandsafe]

When we went down to Los Angeles to "help" Uncle Art pick up his 300 Weatherby Magnum in '50-'51, I got to shoot one of Roy's projects. He had a .222 on a belted 30-06 case that he was pushing 120 gr, solid copper bullets out of. I fired once from the bench and took the next two shots off-hand. He was claiming 3300 fps. It was just a bit impressive. He dropped it because of barrel life.

Pops