WWII German handguns

[TranterUK]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

The Browning Hi Power has to be THE classic 9mm pistol of all time



ADDENDUM: Hmmm, I see that Browning does indeed make them today, and also that they chamber the pistol for the .40 S&W. Also, there seems to be a model out now (the Mark III) that utilizes a polymer frame as well.

Indeed they do pistol. And your right, the 9mm, especially mil spec 115gn ball is limited, though there's a lot of people killed with them who, given the chance, might argue with the word 'limited'.

My last handgun, before our ban was a Browning Hi Power Mk3 in .40 S&W. A near perfect handgun in a near perfect calibre.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

My last handgun, before our ban was a Browning Hi Power Mk3 in .40 S&W. A near perfect handgun in a near perfect calibre.

Interesting comment on the .40, Tranter. I tend to agree with you on that assessment, though there are certainly detractors of the .40 out there. I have always viewed the .40 as about the best compromise possible between the somewhat anemic 9 and the overly bulky .45. Both the 9mm and the .45 ACP have their advantages, of course, and both will certainly get the job done with good ammunition. The 9mm is a joy to shoot, but its light 115-124 grain bullet leaves a bit to be desired. The .45, though perhaps arguably one of the most effective man-stoppers ever devised for a pistol round, necessitates a rather large and relatively heavy pistol unless one is content with only a 6-7 round magazine capacity. The .40, on the other hand, handles a 155-180 grain slug very well, but still allows for a gun frame no larger than the 9mm.

[TranterUK]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

Interesting comment on the .40, Tranter. I tend to agree with you on that assessment, though there are certainly detractors of the .40 out there. I have always viewed the .40 as about the best compromise possible

Indeed Pistol, but a hand gun is a compomise.

If you knew you would need a firearm, you would have a magazine fed rifle and at least six mags with you. Or not be there at all.

This is one of the many factors that keeps firearms such an interesting subject. Calibre, frame size, barrel length, capacity, materials, sights, grips and more.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

Indeed Pistol, but a hand gun is a compomise.

If you knew you would need a firearm, you would have a magazine fed rifle and at least six mags with you. Or not be there at all.

This is one of the many factors that keeps firearms such an interesting subject. Calibre, frame size, barrel length, capacity, materials, sights, grips and more.

Yes, handguns are, by definition, not only a compromise but essentially rather anemic weapons generally speaking. Even the most powerful calibers available (e.g., the .500 S&W) pale in comparison to virtually any standard centerfire rifle cartridge. Their only redeeming quality is their compactness.

[MZ08]

Is there any evidence that the older WW1 P08's saw action in WW2?....say from armory stock piles or hidden arms?

[TranterUK]

Originally Posted by MZ08

Is there any evidence that the older WW1 P08's saw action in WW2?....say from armory stock piles or hidden arms?

I would have to say a definate yes. I have seen a couple of WW1 Lugers with Nazi markings, also what are called double dated Lugers, with both an original, say 1918, and a later stamp such as 1939.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by MZ08

Is there any evidence that the older WW1 P08's saw action in WW2?....say from armory stock piles or hidden arms?

Quite a number did see service in World War II, MZ. The Wehrmacht did not begin issuing the Walther P-38 service automatic until (obviously! ) 1938. Walther took over production of the Luger in 1930 and continued producing them until 1943. Just as many of the .45 Colts issued to our troops in World War II were produced for use in World War I, reserve stocks of the Luger were issued to German officers in World War II.

[TranterUK]

I can now add to my reply having made a quick call to a Luger collector friend of mine. As has been said, a big yes. He added that many WW1 Lugers went to the German police in WW2, many were re issued and one he has just picked up had been factory re finished into WW2 type blue finish, and re issued. He has another he call's a 'father and son' job, carried by the father in WW1 and then by his son in WW2.

I would call that enough evidence?

[MZ08]

Appreciate it guys.........I just obtained a 1918 P08 and am trying to understand the history, as this is my 1st.

Now am trying to understand each marking on it.......

Thanks

[janecharlie]

Does anyone know who owns General Anton Dostler's Walther PPK at this time?
I have a document that who ever owns it maybe interested in it.

[artabr]

To answer the original question of the thread IMHO the best pistol USED by the german army in W.W.2 was the Hi-Power.
The best pistol MADE by the Germans was the Walther P-38 followed by the Mauser HSC or the Walther PP.

The first pistol that I ever bought was a new Browning Hi-Power made in 1975. About 20 years ago I sold it to my best friend and I'm still booting myself in the backside for selling it. After 19 years of begging, he still won't sell it back to me.

Art

[TranterUK]

Originally Posted by artabr

To answer the original question of the thread IMHO the best pistol USED by the german army in W.W.2 was the Hi-Power.
The best pistol MADE by the Germans was the Walther P-38 followed by the Mauser HSC or the Walther PP.

Art

I agree Art, the German made Hi Powers were great, especially as they dropped the mag safety and adjustable tangent sight soon after taking over. Both a waste of space, and one a positive liability.

But if you come across any, and I have seen a few, check them out for faults. Many were made with slave labour and may be dangerous to fire.

Incidentally, I would place the Walther PP and the HSC above the P38.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

Incidentally, I would place the Walther PP and the HSC above the P38.

I would certainly agree with that assessment, Tranter. The P-38 was (and is) a reliable handgun, but awkward to use in my opinion. The triggers on them are atrocious. The Walther PP, on the other hand, is a sweet little handgun. And yeah, so is the Browning, heavy though it is.

[TranterUK]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

The Walther PP, on the other hand, is a sweet little handgun. And yeah, so is the Browning, heavy though it is.

Rather begrudgingly put, but Ill take it.

Yes, on the few P38s I have fired the triggers were very heavy and inconsistant.

A good idea with the P38 is to take the slide off the frame, go out into the woods and throw the slide and frame as far as possible in opposite directions.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

A good idea with the P38 is to take the slide off the frame, go out into the woods and throw the slide and frame as far as possible in opposite directions.

But Tranter, what would Rommel say? Seriously, I suspect you are right, which explains why I have never bought one with my C&R license.

[artabr]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

I agree Art, the German made Hi Powers were great, especially as they dropped the mag safety and adjustable tangent sight soon after taking over. Both a waste of space, and one a positive liability.

But if you come across any, and I have seen a few, check them out for faults. Many were made with slave labour and may be dangerous to fire.

Incidentally, I would place the Walther PP and the HSC above the P38.

The only reason I placed the P38 first is because of cartridge, although a
.356 hole is a .356 hole, one just goes a little deeper than the other.

I have never found a gun that fits my hand better than a Hi-Power. Not even my beloved 1911's.

Art

[TranterUK]

Originally Posted by artabr

I have never found a gun that fits my hand better than a Hi-Power. Not even my beloved 1911's.

Art

I have to agree Art, and I am a huge 1911 fan. The calibre not withstanding, I regard the HI Power as one of the finest handguns ever designed, and my personal favourite.

The original design and two prototypes built by JMB were his improvement on the 1911, loosing the swinging link, the back strap safety and introducing the first staggard magazine for example. One of the last guns I bought in the UK was a Hi Power in .40 S&W, an excellent handgun.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

The original design and two prototypes built by JMB were his improvement on the 1911 . . .

And then along came Gaston Glock and put 'em all to shame.

Sorry, Tranter, I just couldn't resist.

[TranterUK]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

And then along came Gaston Glock and put 'em all to shame.

Sorry, Tranter, I just couldn't resist.

You know grasshopper, a meal may seem the same whether eaten off of fine china or plastic. But it is not the same at all.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

You know grasshopper, a meal may seem the same whether eaten off of fine china or plastic. But it is not the same at all.

As long as the steak is American prime beef, (not that British stuff, for God's sake!!! ), cooked so it moos when I stick the fork in, and flavored only with salt and pepper, I'd as soon eat it off a paper plate with a hunting knife as off fine china and with silver dinnerware, Tranter. My taste, I must admit, definitely tends toward the plebeian.

[TranterUK]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

My taste, I must admit, definitely tends toward the plebeian.

In the UK we take our plebs rare, with a little salt.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

In the UK we take our plebs rare, with a little salt.

King Charles I made that mistake once too, Tranter, not to mention George III. As I recall, old Charlie got so involved with it that he lost his head . . . literally.

[spud]

I have been shown a p-08 wwII bringback marked "1936" on bbl. S/42 on toggle no Waffenmet acc.stamps all matching sn# including mag.!!!!
SOME IDIOT CHROMED IT Need manufactuer info.

[noslolo]

I would have to say the Hi Power, I want one in .40, they just fit my hand so well.

[TranterUK]

Just to widen interest, here are two German made Hi Powers that have been through my hands. The one with the adjustable sight would have been made soon after the factory was taken over, they dropped the tangent sight after existing stocks ran out. The other is a series 'b', the last before the factory was abandoned and largely destroyed by the retreating German Army.

So, first series, just numbers, then series 'a' and 'b' being denoted by a small letter after the number. (Also take a look at the nazi markings, they are common to most nazi issued weapons).