Enfield No4 MkI - The Firearms Forum

mark_baron · 06-13-2007, 04:52 PM

I just aquired an Enfield No4 MkI Long Branch 1942. It has been modestly sporterized by someone by cutting the forstock down and removing the wood from the top of the barrel. Other than that it looks to be in very good or execellent condition. I don't hunt and I am considering buying an old original stock and restoring it to near original condition. I have 2 questions.
1) Is it worth it from a value standpoint? I think I can buy a stock for about $100. I don't want to go through the effort if it only raises the value by $100.
2) If I do get a stock, how can I be sure it is the correct stock for that model?

Thanks,
Mark

Popgunner · 06-13-2007, 05:05 PM

$100 seems high to me for all the wood on a no4mk1. I got my no4mk1 complete original configuration rifle from Century for $149. I like having the original, beat-up stocks on my milsurps. Maybe contact Century, AIM & J&G Sales to see if they have a set of wood for cheep? That way it would look more original & save some$

bunnyhunter12 · 06-13-2007, 09:29 PM

I don't think they have any in stock but www.surplusfirearms.com indicates stocks for Enfield No.1 or No.4 at $40.00 USD in good condition. The Long Branch is so named because it was produced at the Long Branch Arsenal in Ontario, Canada and at the end of 1942 they were producing 32,500 rifles a month. The Canadian military is still using them (the Canadian Rangers, Inuit guides for regular forces in the North) so it shouldn't be TOO hard to find what you're looking for. As for value, an Enfield in original, war-time furniture fetches about 60-70% more at my local gun shop than a sporterized rifle in similar condition.

Xracer · 06-14-2007, 08:27 AM

Sounds like you just need the forestock and handguard.

Numrich Arms/GunPartsCorp has them, both new & used:

http://www.e-gunparts.com/productsch...0zNO%204%20MKI

bunnyhunter12 · 06-14-2007, 12:54 PM

Good point Racer. Mark, just be sure to get something that matches, a hardwood forestock with a birch buttstock will hurt your value. If I remember correctly, the long branch were mostly in birch. A furniture or cabinet maker could tell you what type of wood you have unless you can tell by yourself.

mark_baron · 06-14-2007, 01:04 PM

Thanks for all the help. Here is what I found out:

Numrich Arms/GunPartsCorp:
35) Forestock, Birch, Used : $23.65; 36) Handguard, Rear, Plain, Used : $6.35; 37) Handguard, Front, Used : $6.35; 41) Stock Band & Handguard Band, Middle : $4.40; 42) Sling Swivel, Front : $2.65; 43) Sling Swivel Screw, Front : $2.80; 44) Stock Band, Front : $4.10; 45) Stacking Swivel : $4.30; 46) Stacking Swivel Screw : $2.80. Total=$57.40 plus shipping. And I am afraid the buttstock will not match.

They also sell a complete stock for 55.65 plus band swivels and other stuff. Total= $72.30 plus shipping. I can move some stuff from my old buttstock.

E-Bay:
A complete stock just sold on e-bay (Item number: 180127282097) for $91 +12 shipping.

Surplus dealer:
www.surplusfirearms.com is no longer active and was changed to www.buymilsurp.com No enfield stocked listed BUT... I know Mark Kubes and have done businees with him before, and his store is 2 miles from my office. I will go there and see what he can do for me.

polishshooter · 06-15-2007, 09:28 PM

Try http://www.ssporters.com/

They are good people to deal with and will have it in several grades, probably cheaper.

I have a 1944 Long Branch that I restored to full military a year ago courtesy of a US Savage stock set I got through the magnamimity of Pistolashootzer and it looks and shoots fine....

Plus at a show 2 weeks ago I picked up a khaki sling for it with the date stamp and manufazcturer still visible on it for $15, it looks nice....

And surprisingly I'm seeing more and more surplus WWII .303 ball relatively cheap at shows recently, but I've been getting a few hangfires with it, but it's still fun to shoot and pretty accurate when it DOES finally go bang...It's good practice for my flintlock...

Pistolenschutze · 06-16-2007, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polishshooter

And surprisingly I'm seeing more and more surplus WWII .303 ball relatively cheap at shows recently, but I've been getting a few hangfires with it, but it's still fun to shoot and pretty accurate when it DOES finally go bang...It's good practice for my flintlock...

Polish, I think I know what the problem is. It's not the ammo. You were probably shooting around tea time, and those Brit rifles simply stopped for tea. They are known for that, you see. Of course, had you been shooting a much more dependable Mauser 98, that couldn't possibly happen.

bunnyhunter12 · 06-16-2007, 12:37 AM

Oh no, you didn't just say "dependable Mauser" did you Pistol? I don't want to start a whole big thing here but that's why we're all speaking German here right?

. Kidding, cannot stress that enough, I don't want to jump the poor guys thread by starting a debate about a great rifle like the Enfield and a POS like the Mauser that's suitable only for melting down and turning in to replica Enfields.

. Again, kidding... But I do have the Queen on my coins so you can see I'm kinda biased.

polishshooter · 06-16-2007, 10:47 AM

Bunny, you and I are going to become GREAT friends.....

Paul von M. was PT Barnum with a guttural dialect and schnitzel breath.....

But those hangfires finally explained why my old late WWII .303 wood ammo boxes are prominently stamped with the warning "Not to be used in synchronized guns after 1946!"

....a hangfire just MIGHT shoot the prop off an Avro trainer...

Pistolenschutze · 06-16-2007, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polishshooter

Paul von M. was PT Barnum with a guttural dialect and schnitzel breath.....

Polish, next time you go to confession, be sure to tell the worthy Father of your blasphemy! Taking the name of St. Paul Mauser in vain must surely qualify as at least a venal sin, maybe even a mortal one!

Not to worry, a few Hail Marys and a few Our Fathers as pennance should take care of it.

300 H&H · 06-16-2007, 08:57 PM

You know guys, what fun it is when Pistol & Polish get to goin, makes this forum aloto fun ya know!!!! It would be alot more fun to get these too together over a big mug of sudds or two or three, and just listen!!! Kirk

polishshooter · 06-16-2007, 09:55 PM

Make that a couple of pitchers, with maybe a bottle of good Scotch on the side, throw in a couple of good cigars, and I'M THERE!

(as long as HE'S buying....

)

And lest I get accused of ANOTHER thread hijack....

Hey Mark, is your Long Branch a MkI or a MkI*? I'm guessing a 1942 is probably a MkI, I'm not sure they made the *s until after 1943...

I wish mine was a regular MkI, those two position 300-600 flip up sights on the * probably make decent battle sights but are a pain on the range at 100....

bunnyhunter12 · 06-17-2007, 01:49 AM

The problem with two pos. battle sights is that the Brits gave up a good system of "pick a target and aim" suitable for a bolt like the Enfield and bought in to a certain American gentlemans, walking fire theory. Now I agree that, "spray and pray" works for autos or even semi-autos like the Garand (lovely piece, WANT ONE) but for a bolt you want/need accurate, every shot a kill, fire. I also agree that superior firepower is key, and that's why I agree that the Garand was the greatest implement of war ever devised, for the time (STG 44.?) but the fact remains that the Enfield bolt unlocks as soon as the handle is thrown, whereas the Mauser bolt has to rotate through nearly ninety degrees before it unlocks. The Mauser action is STRONG to be sure but the Germans estimated that the Brits had twice as many machine gune as was the case because a British rifleman could fire a lot faster with his bolt than a Kraut. I myself can get off 25 aimed rds. a minute with my No.4 Mk.1 with 10rd. mags. AND, an Enfield is strong enough for the .303 cartridge for which it was designed. Ask a German Panther tank veteran about how well German over-engineering worked. ----------------------I am well in to my cups right now so forgive me my trespasses please.

polishshooter · 06-17-2007, 08:53 AM

Ah yes, Georgie Patton and his "walking fire...."

But then, he had something there, too many times American soldiers were holding their fire, until they had a definite target to shoot at, not matter how small, that due to their KD training and the now sadly forgotten but strong then traditions of "Every American a Rifleman" like Sgt York, which meant that whole units would be pinned down and taking casualties while searching in vain for a "target."

His "Walking fire from the hip" was actually the "Politically Correct" way he talked about it later, during battles it was more like "FIRE THAT $^^%$#$!*(#! WEAPON NOW SOLDIER!"

But it is funny how that transformed into "Spray and Pray" and "Mad minutes" by the time of Vietnam.

Pistolenschutze · 06-17-2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 300 H&H

You know guys, what fun it is when Pistol & Polish get to goin, makes this forum aloto fun ya know!!!! It would be alot more fun to get these too together over a big mug of sudds or two or three, and just listen!!! Kirk

Yeah, we do have fun, 300. But do keep in mind, the ribbing is always just in fun. Polish is a great guy, even if he is wrong most of the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by polishshooter

Make that a couple of pitchers, with maybe a bottle of good Scotch on the side, throw in a couple of good cigars, and I'M THERE!

Scotch with a beer chaser?????

How utterly uncouth! We need to settle on one or the other, Polish. How about a nice bottle of Aberlour 21 Year Old Single Malt? We could always go with the beer idea though, it's considerably less expensive . . . but it must be a good German beer of course.

southernshooter · 06-17-2007, 12:35 PM

Mark just keep in mind that when some folks sporterize them the cut the barrel down. And also if they cut the iron sights off, It's a pain in the butt to reattach them

polishshooter · 06-17-2007, 06:48 PM

SOG lists a B Square mount for a MkI for like $29.95, I've been kinda eyeing it in the flyer, if it's one of the "no gunsmithing'" type that doesn't change the original configuration much I may buy one...especially now that I have dies and a hundred of the 210 grain .312 lead RN gas check bullets for it....

They also list one for $27.95 for the Ishapore .308 SMLE MkIII, THAT might be fun too....

new sks 2005 · 07-13-2007, 04:18 PM

i just put a ati scope mount on,it seems solid but i need a scope to find out if it holds zero.

JLA · 07-24-2007, 09:57 PM

Mark, if indeed it has been hacked off at he front sight and you do decide to fix it up with a scope, advanced technologies has black fiberglass stocks for them at reasonable prices, problem is it will just be a modern looking bolt action rifle that fires a really old rimmed cartridge design. If not, i do recommend re-fitting it with original furniture.

polishshooter · 07-24-2007, 11:11 PM

Ain't nothing wrong with Rimmed cartridges, JLA!

In fact, they just might be arguably BETTER for a bolt action military gun, no matter how many times you shoot them, throat/chamber erosion has no bearing on headspace like a rimless round...in fact, you will RARELY find ANY military action with it's original barrel firing a rimmed round to ever have a headspace issue...about the ONLY way it can happen is "bolt head set back," which RARELY if ever happens firing factory military ammo, usually only with a LOT of "hot" hand loads....

And as for OLD....

Maybe the stuff like .455 Martini, the .50 Spencer, the .43 Egyptian, or 11.4 Werndl cartridges are OLD...but the .303 is still pretty "modern" thank you very much!

In the same way the .45-70, the .45 Colt, the .30-30, the 7.62x54, and the .220 Swift are too!

The .303 is still a pretty decent round for hunting even up to Moose sized animals...ask Bunnyhunter or Southernshooter

It may not be as VERSATILE as more modern cartridges, but it still is good at what it does and has done for a while....and will be forever....

(Sorry, you can tell I like "old rimmed cartridges" huh?

)

JLA · 07-26-2007, 09:11 PM

i agree 1 million percent polish, i was just trying to point out, in an indiscreet manner, that i an against butchering vintage mil-surp to make a modern looking deer rifle, besides i like the "old" rimmed cartridges too. and you forgot to mention, in your hufff about the 303 that if you handload properly for a given rifle your cartridges will headspace off the rim and the shoulder(in the bottlenecked versions only) and thats better than only headspacing off the shoulder

06-13-2007, 04:52 PM	#1
mark_baron V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 112	Enfield No4 MkI I just aquired an Enfield No4 MkI Long Branch 1942. It has been modestly sporterized by someone by cutting the forstock down and removing the wood from the top of the barrel. Other than that it looks to be in very good or execellent condition. I don't hunt and I am considering buying an old original stock and restoring it to near original condition. I have 2 questions. 1) Is it worth it from a value standpoint? I think I can buy a stock for about $100. I don't want to go through the effort if it only raises the value by $100. 2) If I do get a stock, how can I be sure it is the correct stock for that model? Thanks, Mark -->

06-13-2007, 05:05 PM	#2
Popgunner Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Contributor Posts: 1,764	Re: Enfield No4 MkI $100 seems high to me for all the wood on a no4mk1. I got my no4mk1 complete original configuration rifle from Century for $149. I like having the original, beat-up stocks on my milsurps. Maybe contact Century, AIM & J&G Sales to see if they have a set of wood for cheep? That way it would look more original & save some$

06-13-2007, 09:29 PM	#3
bunnyhunter12 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,090	Re: Enfield No4 MkI I don't think they have any in stock but www.surplusfirearms.com indicates stocks for Enfield No.1 or No.4 at $40.00 USD in good condition. The Long Branch is so named because it was produced at the Long Branch Arsenal in Ontario, Canada and at the end of 1942 they were producing 32,500 rifles a month. The Canadian military is still using them (the Canadian Rangers, Inuit guides for regular forces in the North) so it shouldn't be TOO hard to find what you're looking for. As for value, an Enfield in original, war-time furniture fetches about 60-70% more at my local gun shop than a sporterized rifle in similar condition. __________________ Quaerite Prime Regnum Dei~ Official motto of Newfoundland If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government --and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws. -- Edward Abbey in Abbey's Road, p.39 (Plume, 1979) -Smitty

06-14-2007, 08:27 AM	#4
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: Enfield No4 MkI Sounds like you just need the forestock and handguard. Numrich Arms/GunPartsCorp has them, both new & used: http://www.e-gunparts.com/productsch...0zNO%204%20MKI

06-14-2007, 12:54 PM	#5
bunnyhunter12 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,090	Re: Enfield No4 MkI Good point Racer. Mark, just be sure to get something that matches, a hardwood forestock with a birch buttstock will hurt your value. If I remember correctly, the long branch were mostly in birch. A furniture or cabinet maker could tell you what type of wood you have unless you can tell by yourself. __________________ Quaerite Prime Regnum Dei~ Official motto of Newfoundland If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government --and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws. -- Edward Abbey in Abbey's Road, p.39 (Plume, 1979) -Smitty

06-14-2007, 01:04 PM	#6
mark_baron V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 112	Re: Enfield No4 MkI Thanks for all the help. Here is what I found out: Numrich Arms/GunPartsCorp: 35) Forestock, Birch, Used : $23.65; 36) Handguard, Rear, Plain, Used : $6.35; 37) Handguard, Front, Used : $6.35; 41) Stock Band & Handguard Band, Middle : $4.40; 42) Sling Swivel, Front : $2.65; 43) Sling Swivel Screw, Front : $2.80; 44) Stock Band, Front : $4.10; 45) Stacking Swivel : $4.30; 46) Stacking Swivel Screw : $2.80. Total=$57.40 plus shipping. And I am afraid the buttstock will not match. They also sell a complete stock for 55.65 plus band swivels and other stuff. Total= $72.30 plus shipping. I can move some stuff from my old buttstock. E-Bay: A complete stock just sold on e-bay (Item number: 180127282097) for $91 +12 shipping. Surplus dealer: www.surplusfirearms.com is no longer active and was changed to www.buymilsurp.com No enfield stocked listed BUT... I know Mark Kubes and have done businees with him before, and his store is 2 miles from my office. I will go there and see what he can do for me.

06-15-2007, 09:28 PM	#7
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,863	Re: Enfield No4 MkI Try http://www.ssporters.com/ They are good people to deal with and will have it in several grades, probably cheaper. I have a 1944 Long Branch that I restored to full military a year ago courtesy of a US Savage stock set I got through the magnamimity of Pistolashootzer and it looks and shoots fine.... Plus at a show 2 weeks ago I picked up a khaki sling for it with the date stamp and manufazcturer still visible on it for $15, it looks nice.... And surprisingly I'm seeing more and more surplus WWII .303 ball relatively cheap at shows recently, but I've been getting a few hangfires with it, but it's still fun to shoot and pretty accurate when it DOES finally go bang...It's good practice for my flintlock... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

06-16-2007, 12:37 AM	#9
bunnyhunter12 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,090	Re: Enfield No4 MkI Oh no, you didn't just say "dependable Mauser" did you Pistol? I don't want to start a whole big thing here but that's why we're all speaking German here right? . Kidding, cannot stress that enough, I don't want to jump the poor guys thread by starting a debate about a great rifle like the Enfield and a POS like the Mauser that's suitable only for melting down and turning in to replica Enfields. . Again, kidding... But I do have the Queen on my coins so you can see I'm kinda biased. __________________ Quaerite Prime Regnum Dei~ Official motto of Newfoundland If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government --and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws. -- Edward Abbey in Abbey's Road, p.39 (Plume, 1979) -Smitty

06-16-2007, 10:47 AM	#10
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,863	Re: Enfield No4 MkI Bunny, you and I are going to become GREAT friends..... Paul von M. was PT Barnum with a guttural dialect and schnitzel breath..... But those hangfires finally explained why my old late WWII .303 wood ammo boxes are prominently stamped with the warning "Not to be used in synchronized guns after 1946!" ....a hangfire just MIGHT shoot the prop off an Avro trainer... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. Last edited by polishshooter; 06-16-2007 at 10:49 AM..

06-16-2007, 08:57 PM	#12
300 H&H Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,796	Re: Enfield No4 MkI You know guys, what fun it is when Pistol & Polish get to goin, makes this forum aloto fun ya know!!!! It would be alot more fun to get these too together over a big mug of sudds or two or three, and just listen!!! Kirk

06-16-2007, 09:55 PM	#13
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,863	Re: Enfield No4 MkI Make that a couple of pitchers, with maybe a bottle of good Scotch on the side, throw in a couple of good cigars, and I'M THERE! (as long as HE'S buying.... ) And lest I get accused of ANOTHER thread hijack.... Hey Mark, is your Long Branch a MkI or a MkI? I'm guessing a 1942 is probably a MkI, I'm not sure they made the s until after 1943... I wish mine was a regular MkI, those two position 300-600 flip up sights on the * probably make decent battle sights but are a pain on the range at 100.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. Last edited by polishshooter; 06-16-2007 at 10:00 PM..

06-17-2007, 01:49 AM	#14
bunnyhunter12 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 1,090	Re: Enfield No4 MkI The problem with two pos. battle sights is that the Brits gave up a good system of "pick a target and aim" suitable for a bolt like the Enfield and bought in to a certain American gentlemans, walking fire theory. Now I agree that, "spray and pray" works for autos or even semi-autos like the Garand (lovely piece, WANT ONE) but for a bolt you want/need accurate, every shot a kill, fire. I also agree that superior firepower is key, and that's why I agree that the Garand was the greatest implement of war ever devised, for the time (STG 44.?) but the fact remains that the Enfield bolt unlocks as soon as the handle is thrown, whereas the Mauser bolt has to rotate through nearly ninety degrees before it unlocks. The Mauser action is STRONG to be sure but the Germans estimated that the Brits had twice as many machine gune as was the case because a British rifleman could fire a lot faster with his bolt than a Kraut. I myself can get off 25 aimed rds. a minute with my No.4 Mk.1 with 10rd. mags. AND, an Enfield is strong enough for the .303 cartridge for which it was designed. Ask a German Panther tank veteran about how well German over-engineering worked. ----------------------I am well in to my cups right now so forgive me my trespasses please. __________________ Quaerite Prime Regnum Dei~ Official motto of Newfoundland If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government --and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws. -- Edward Abbey in Abbey's Road, p.39 (Plume, 1979) -Smitty

06-17-2007, 08:53 AM	#15
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,863	Re: Enfield No4 MkI Ah yes, Georgie Patton and his "walking fire...." But then, he had something there, too many times American soldiers were holding their fire, until they had a definite target to shoot at, not matter how small, that due to their KD training and the now sadly forgotten but strong then traditions of "Every American a Rifleman" like Sgt York, which meant that whole units would be pinned down and taking casualties while searching in vain for a "target." His "Walking fire from the hip" was actually the "Politically Correct" way he talked about it later, during battles it was more like "FIRE THAT $^^%$#$!(#! WEAPON NOW* SOLDIER!" But it is funny how that transformed into "Spray and Pray" and "Mad minutes" by the time of Vietnam. __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

06-17-2007, 12:35 PM	#17
southernshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep South Mississippi Posts: 5,943	Re: Enfield No4 MkI Mark just keep in mind that when some folks sporterize them the cut the barrel down. And also if they cut the iron sights off, It's a pain in the butt to reattach them __________________ Only you can see this

06-17-2007, 06:48 PM	#18
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,863	Re: Enfield No4 MkI SOG lists a B Square mount for a MkI for like $29.95, I've been kinda eyeing it in the flyer, if it's one of the "no gunsmithing'" type that doesn't change the original configuration much I may buy one...especially now that I have dies and a hundred of the 210 grain .312 lead RN gas check bullets for it.... They also list one for $27.95 for the Ishapore .308 SMLE MkIII, THAT might be fun too.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

07-13-2007, 04:18 PM	#19
new sks 2005 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: out on the plaines of colorado!! Posts: 84	Re: Enfield No4 MkI i just put a ati scope mount on,it seems solid but i need a scope to find out if it holds zero.

07-24-2007, 09:57 PM	#20
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,328	Re: Enfield No4 MkI Mark, if indeed it has been hacked off at he front sight and you do decide to fix it up with a scope, advanced technologies has black fiberglass stocks for them at reasonable prices, problem is it will just be a modern looking bolt action rifle that fires a really old rimmed cartridge design. If not, i do recommend re-fitting it with original furniture.

07-24-2007, 11:11 PM	#21
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,863	Re: Enfield No4 MkI Ain't nothing wrong with Rimmed cartridges, JLA! In fact, they just might be arguably BETTER for a bolt action military gun, no matter how many times you shoot them, throat/chamber erosion has no bearing on headspace like a rimless round...in fact, you will RARELY find ANY military action with it's original barrel firing a rimmed round to ever have a headspace issue...about the ONLY way it can happen is "bolt head set back," which RARELY if ever happens firing factory military ammo, usually only with a LOT of "hot" hand loads.... And as for OLD.... Maybe the stuff like .455 Martini, the .50 Spencer, the .43 Egyptian, or 11.4 Werndl cartridges are OLD...but the .303 is still pretty "modern" thank you very much! In the same way the .45-70, the .45 Colt, the .30-30, the 7.62x54, and the .220 Swift are too! The .303 is still a pretty decent round for hunting even up to Moose sized animals...ask Bunnyhunter or Southernshooter It may not be as VERSATILE as more modern cartridges, but it still is good at what it does and has done for a while....and will be forever.... (Sorry, you can tell I like "old rimmed cartridges" huh?) __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. Last edited by polishshooter; 07-24-2007 at 11:22 PM..

07-26-2007, 09:11 PM	#22
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,328	Re: Enfield No4 MkI i agree 1 million percent polish, i was just trying to point out, in an indiscreet manner, that i an against butchering vintage mil-surp to make a modern looking deer rifle, besides i like the "old" rimmed cartridges too. and you forgot to mention, in your hufff about the 303 that if you handload properly for a given rifle your cartridges will headspace off the rim and the shoulder(in the bottlenecked versions only) and thats better than only headspacing off the shoulder