22 ammunition ??

[Smokin Guns]

brock luno
Member
Posts: 1
(11/21/01 7:44:23 pm)
Reply 22 ammunition ??
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Does anybody have a fairly complete history of the development of the 22 rimfire cartridge - maybe with dimensions? I have a Win 1904 that takes short, long and EXTRA LONG. I can't find info on the EXTRA LONG? Anybody know anything about this ammo? Can I get a few? I'd like to make up an ammo board with the different types of 22 ammo.

Tac401
Administrator
Posts: 2757
(11/21/01 7:57:05 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
Re: 22 ammunition ??
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Welcome Aboard brock luno!

Stand by, one of our people will be along to help
answer your question shortly!


Edited for HTML function.
The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

Edited by: AntiqueDr at: 11/21/01 8:29:21 pm

tuckerd1
Moderator
Posts: 749
(11/21/01 7:58:00 pm)
Reply Re: 22 ammunition ??
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Welcome to the board bruno luno! We got some 22 experts around here somewhere. They'll catch up with you soon.

AntiqueDr
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1375
(11/21/01 8:27:54 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
Re: 22 ammunition ??
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The .22 Rimfire was the first successful metallic cartridge, appearing in Smith & Wesson's little tip-up rimfire pistols of the 1860's. Rimfire was a very popular ignition method all the way through about the 1880's-1890's, when centerfire priming systems began to win out. The .22 Extra Long was simply an attempt to gain more power out of the .22 cartridge. It even got turned into a centerfire cartridge called the .22 Maynard Extra Long so it could be reloaded.

Ammunition hasnt been loaded for that cartridge in probably 60 years or more. Collectors are paying about $1 per round, last I heard.

We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
www.apaxenterprises.com

gpostal
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1233
(11/21/01 8:41:20 pm)
Reply Re: 22 ammunition ??
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well i am not the board expert but i can tell you of some past types of .22


here goes

.22 short
.22 shortcb
.22 long
.22 long rifle
,22 win mag


.22hornet
.22jet
.22savage


.221rem fireball
.222 remington
.222 rem mag
.220 swift
.22-250

i worked at winchester when i was young it is neat to watch them being made

warpig883
Moderator
Posts: 1162
(11/21/01 8:45:15 pm)
Reply Re: 22 ammunition ??
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I am probably wrong but I was sure I read that .22 was origianlly blck powder and the first smokeless powder .22's and guns were developed by Stevens or something like this.

I know Stevens was a major player in the development of the .22 I do remember that much for sure.
One after one, by the star-dogged moon, Too quick for groan or sigh, Each turned his face with a ghastly pang, And cursed me with his eye. Four times fifty living men, (And I heard nor sigh nor groan) With heavy thump, a lifeless lump, They dropped down one by one.

BlackGun
Moderator
Posts: 1734
(11/21/01 8:51:21 pm)
Reply Re: 22 ammunition ??
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Welcome Aboard brock luno We're so happy to have you join our happy family. May all your rounds be in the X-ring! Happy Thanksgiving and please feel free to join us on the other forums.
rules for survival: Sight alignment, Breath control, & Trigger Squeeze
BlackGUN

AntiqueDr
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1376
(11/21/01 8:52:57 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
Re: 22 ammunition ??
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The .22 short was originally black powder. Everything was in 1857. The .22 Long was developed by Stevens Arms Co and the Peters Cartridge Co in 1871. Smokeless powder came to the .22 rimfire in 1887, the same year that Stevens and the Peters Cartridge Co developed the .22 Long Rifle cartridge, which used the old .22 Long case to a higher velocity. I'm thinking the .22 Xtra Long came about around 1890 or so for use in Stevens single shot rifles, but faded out by 1910-1915.


We Buy Guns! 1 - 100, Antique or Modern!
www.apaxenterprises.com

warpig883
Moderator
Posts: 1166
(11/21/01 9:18:05 pm)
Reply Re: 22 ammunition ??
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That sounds better than the way I had it. Thanks AD!
One after one, by the star-dogged moon, Too quick for groan or sigh, Each turned his face with a ghastly pang, And cursed me with his eye. Four times fifty living men, (And I heard nor sigh nor groan) With heavy thump, a lifeless lump, They dropped down one by one.

remingtongeo
Member
Posts: 12
(11/22/01 5:22:04 am)
Reply I've been shooting mine for a long time.
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I have been shooting standard vel. 22 long rifle in mine for years.

The difference between 22 extra long and 22 long rifle is in the length. The extra longs were used by Winchester, Maynard, Stevens and Mossberg. The external diameter is the same as the 22 family as we know today. The velocity is only 1000 fps to 1050 fps, so don't use hot loads through your rifle.

I love my 1904 even though seeing through that little rear sight is getting harder to do every year.




the real fredneck
Moderator
Posts: 504
(11/22/01 7:46:24 am)
Reply Re: I've been shooting mine for a long time.
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so the 22 extra long was different than the 22 WRF?

Yes. Two different cartridges. -AD

Edited by: AntiqueDr at: 11/22/01 12:45:33 pm

ruffitt
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 519
(11/22/01 10:52:15 am)
Reply
ezSupporter
Re: 22 ammunition ??
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O.K., I'll throw a mix in to stir the pot - I know what the difference is between black powder and smokeless powder; but an old Savage .22 I have says to use "LESMOKE" or semi-smokeless crimped ctgs only. What exactly is LESMOKE or semi-smokeless; are either one of them a "brand" name, or just a type of powder?

<i>That is a reference to a brand name of powder used during the transition from black powder to smokeless. Many repeating rifles had a big problem with reliability using blackpowder cartridges and outside lubed bullets due to fouling. -AD</i>

Also, a question following htis description: This rifle has the inscription "NOT DESIGNED FOR USE WITH HIGH SPEED CARTRIDGES" stamped into the left side of the receiver. The rifle was manufactured by Savage Arms Co, Ithaca, N.Y., and has a patent date of Dec 5 1906, with other patents pending. It is a Model 1912 .22 LR Automatic (as stamped on the top of the receiver) and is clip fed (I do not have the clip, my brother told me he could not find it before he passe).
QUESTION - If I can find a replacement clip for this rifle, can I shoot modern .22 short/long/long rifle ammunition through it?

<i>The Savage Model 12 (1912) was only made from 1913-1916. Once/if you get a magazine, and have the rifle checked over by a gunsmith, only shoot .22LR STANDARD-VELOCITY ammunition. -AD</i>

I know it has to be cleaned because it was my dad's and he's been gone for almost 10 years now and I know my brother never bothered to clean it while he had it.

Everyone have a Joyous and Happy Thanksgiving.
RUFFITT




Edited by: ruffitt at: 11/22/01 6:04:10 pm

Different name
V.I.P. Forum Host
Posts: 560
(11/22/01 12:42:58 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
Re: 22 ammunition ??
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Howdy. WE will see to it you enjoy and relax @ our .22-Rimfire hangout--- Glad you are here at TFF.
I'm certainly not an expert when it comes to 22 ammo.
But, I do have a rare beast, I think.
An AK-22, 22 long rifle-High velocity only.
Has 10 round mags (Can find 15 round mags - but like hens teeth!)
KBI doesn't really provide any particulars concerning this
22 rifle.
Would any of you guys or gals fill me in on the particulars concerning
ammo and its uses? I have no specs whatsoever concerning the weapon. (that was provided to me).
Thanks, I would appreciate it very much.
Charlie D
First we make our habits, then
our habits make us.

The AK-22 was originally imported by Mitchell Arms, now by KBI, Inc (importer of Charles Daly, among others). The rifle is a decent semiauto plinker but dont expect match accuracy. The biggest problem I've encountered with them is the rear leaf sight is somewhat fragile and will break in half with rough handling. Use .22LR high velocity ammo like CCI Mini-Mags or Remington Yellow Jackets, etc. The guns are available new at around $159. -AD



Edited by: AntiqueDr at: 11/22/01 1:00:22 pm

ruffitt
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 522
(11/22/01 6:11:31 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
Re: 22 ammunition ??
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Thanx for the response AD.

See you've found a new way to respond to posts.

Good idea.

You'll probably wind up saving us some board space by replying this way. Think I'm gonna start doing the same thing when I respond to posts.

Again, thanx for the reply.
RUFFITT




Edited by: ruffitt at: 11/23/01 10:33:55 pm

the real fredneck
Moderator
Posts: 512
(11/22/01 9:52:15 pm)
Reply Re: 22 ammunition ??
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Hey Ruffitt
Gun Parts Corp. has 8rd replacement mags for the M-1912 item # 197550 for $27.00

Thanx fredneck - appreciate it.

Edited by: ruffitt at: 11/23/01 2:29:57 am

[FloridaFialaFan]

THIS POST IS ONLY FIVE YEARS LATE. I ran a search for .22rf Extra Long right after running a Want To Buy ad for boxes of this ammo. Below is a photo of part of my .22rf rounds collections. Hope you find this pic informative. FFF


LEFT TO RIGHT: long, long rifle, EXTRA LONG, WRF (Winchester Rim Fire).


Yes, there IS a place for all of God's creatures: right next to the potatoes and gravy.

[jim boatman]

where can i get 22 wrf ammo ?
i have a 22 pump mod. 1890 and the stamp on the barrel says 22 wrf ???
is that the ammo type ? is it a short, long, or long rilfe ??
is wrf in a class of its own ??
advice please
jim , tehachapi ca.

[jim boatman]

AMEN BROTHER !

[22WRF]

22WRF is just that 22WRF the 22 Remington Special is the Same Cart they do not interchange wtih any other 22.

CCI currently makes 22WRF and is available from dealers like Midway

[bikebear57]

I have a Iver Johnson 22 cal Model 50 sidewinder what would be a good ammunition ?

[Alpo]

That's either a 22 Long Rifle or a 22 Magnum. It will say on the gun. Those two rounds do not interchange, so you will need to know which you have. Hopefully you have a Long Rifle, because two dollars a box beats 8 dollars a box any day.

[rdavis2328]

I have an old Winchester 22 Short Pump Rifle and need to find decent ammo for it. It's been in the family for over 100 years and works great. I've just had issues with finding ammunition in the past. It used to be available at almost any Hardware/Gun store, but has been harder to find in the last 20 years. Any help wil be greatly apprecaited. Thanks, R. Davis

[HammondShooter]

I did a Google search and found this .22 ammo site out of Georgia. They have some Remington ammo listed as available in .22 Short. I haven't trying buying from them, so I hope the website is still valid. It also looks like they carry other things like .22 blanks and shot shells. I think someone else on here was looking for the shot shells. They have Winchester shot shells listed as being in stock.:

http://www.22ammo.com/22short.html

Shane