Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT - Page 2

Popgunner · 08-14-2007, 10:42 AM

I have to take exception to the comment that 91/30's are more accurate than M-38's. I'll go along with the M-44's being on the inacurate side but I have two M-38's that both have outshot any 91/30 I've had or seen. I've tested with scopes from the bench & the M-38's I've had outshot any Mosin I've had except my M-39's. The M-44's do shoot better to point of aim with the bayo extended but have not in my experience shot as accurately as the M-38's

Just my .02

k98k792 · 08-14-2007, 11:38 AM

Have to disagree again. After reading this I got up grabbed an Arisaka cocked it and safed it and unsafed it in the blink of an eye. You have to use the heel of your hand to rotate it. Mosin safety A LOT harder to use!

polishshooter · 08-14-2007, 08:13 PM

Actually, 98, the "push while turning" on my son's Arisaka is just as slow as the PULL while turning of my Mosin, the problem as I see it, is each Mosin is a little different in how much pressure is needed, while every at least T38 Arisaka I've handled seems about the same.

But you JUST know both Japs and Russians (life was cheap to BOTH sides, just more accepted by the average Jap grunt, probably not as much by the Russians, but unavoidable nonetheless...) probably either carried it with it OFF, or else at least uncocked, and flipped the bolt handle up quickly to fire. And neither side reported "ADs" or accidental shootings in their records....

And as for the M38s being more accurate than the M44s, Pops, I have not found that to be the case, and I've shot 30 or so M44s and 8 M38s...just about EVERY M44 was accurate, even the parts guns, while I went through 7 M38s before I found a "keeper."

I "function test" each out back at 40-50 yds, and EVERY M44, Russian, Romanian, Hungarian, and Polish I've shot could shoot 2-3"" offhand at that range, and fairly rapid fire too. (my standard function test after the headspace test is 5 rounds slow fire, then slam in a stripper after the last one{not every one likes strippers!

} and shoot five as fast as I can work the bolt and regain sight picture....) NONE of the M38s until the last one would do that, most were 4-5" at BEST. And the GOOD one I kept does only about 3"....

Now part of the problem was THIS batch of M38s, maybe earlier batches that I missed out on were more accurate, but every one I've owned had the counterbored barrels, which was probably done at rearsenal to remove the damage to the rifling at the muzzle from Russian cleaning methods.

NO M44s I've owned was either damaged there OR counterbored. And while i've had SOME "dark bores" in 44s, EVERY 38 (including this one) is "dark."

It stands to reason, virtually EVERY M38 saw action in WWII, most of it HARD, cavalry and partisan, right through to the end.

The M44 missed the worst of it, 41-43, except for the hundred thousand or so from November-Dec 1943, and while they DID issue it to straight leg infantry units, MOST went to service, artillery, support, and training...most line regiments at this time were virtually all armed with Ppshs...even most of the 44-45 wartime ones have decent bores, and virtually all the late 1945, and post war Russians, saw LITTLE service, so usually have pristine bores.

The HUNGARIANS for some reason are always in WORST shape overall, (Maybe the Hungarian Revolution?) but were some of my BEST and smoothest shooters regardless of condition...

Polish ones are generally "tighter" and cleaner, but most I've seen and all I've owned were from the 1952 batch that was intended to reequip the North Koreans, but never made it, so probably were never even shot.

Even the Chinese Type 53 I owned could outshoot my 38s....

But the 38 IS much handier, and one of my favorites...

Now what's funny is I've shot about 10 or so 91/30s, I own 4 now, ranging from a 1920 transition that is REALLY ratty to a 1943 wartime that is almost pristine, and they were/are ALL accurate, regardless of condition or bore, but the "crude" wartime one is the MOSt accurate one I've owned, at least not counting any of the Finns I used to own....

One thing about the 44s, make sure you shoot them with the bayonet folded and then again with it extended, they DO print to different points of aim, I never believed it until I tried it!

Not MUCH, and it probably wouldn't mean much in combat, but it is noticeable....according to legend they were sighted to point of aim with the bayonet EXTENDED, which makes sense if you know Russian doctrine...

k98k792 · 08-15-2007, 12:53 PM

I have seen archive footage of WW2 Japanese soldiers preparing to get into landing craft,and putting on the safety. I expected to see them throw that crazy action cover overboard though.
All I can say is that the safety's on my Arisakas work alot faster then any of my MNs.
I have a very nice M-38 and can't really tell any difference between it and the M44. Of course the 91/30s are more accurate. Though all them are limited by the ammo. I guess polishooter since you hand load for yours,you can overcome that .
One thing I do love, is the look of the Russian refurbs laminate.
I hate that dang Russian lacquer though.

Mosin_Nagant_Fan · 08-15-2007, 07:53 PM

Russian surplus is so plentiful, I'm considering having mine refinished in a lighter color. Though my M38 is a low number (629), there's very little value in 'em.

polishshooter · 08-16-2007, 08:44 PM

K, there's some very good milsurp x54 out there, and some very bad...

I've shot the spectrum from crappy Albanian to decent Albanian, to several batches and years of Russian from the 1960s through the late '80s, Polish, Czech, and Hungarian, both light and heavy ball.

The WORST was the early 1980s Albanian, 7-8" groups at 100 from a bench through my scoped rifles, and VERY brittle brass cases, about one in 10 split and blew gas and crud through the action...

The LATE 80s Albanian was better, I went through two tins of it with no problems, although not much serious target work, just function testing and plinking. I really liked the brass cases at the time, when most milsurp x54 is steel cased.

The BEST was the Polish...I got a hair over 2" from my Polish with the conventional scope, and a hair under 3" from the scout with the 4X EER scope at 100...but wouldn't you know it, it dried up before I could buy another tin or so...I have about 200 rds left and I'm hoarding it.

You usually can't go wrong with any Russian ammo, though it varies, I probably would stick to it if no Polish was available.

The Czech seemed to work well too, but I try to stay away from any green lacquer painted cases...

I haven't fired the Hungarian enough to really tell much, I'm going to the range Saturday, maybe I'll throw in a couple of packs and try them from a bench...

I also haven't yet tried any of that Russian "sniper" ammo yet, mainly because I have a hard time justifying $8/20 for milsurp when a box of new reloadable commercial goes $8.99....

polishshooter · 08-17-2007, 07:44 AM

MN Fan, don't refinish it if it's a real M38 stock, those are not as common, but if it's in an M44 stock, go right ahead. M44 stocks are a dime a dozen. ANd the lighter stocks DO make them look good, except it's harder to hide the "dings."

While most 38s that were rearsenaled were put into M44 stocks, and all built in 1944 and 45 probably started out in M44 stocks since they quit making the M38 stocks when they adopted the 44, because it fit, so M44 stocked M38s are still "correct," I have always preferred mine in the "real" stock, and have found out most other collectors do too...

In fact, even I have even paid a premium to buy one in a store or at a show just because it was in a "real" stock, knowing I could quickly get my money out of it, and maybe a little MORE when I sold iteven if it didn't shoot well...

Pistolenschutze · 08-17-2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k98k792

Have to disagree again. After reading this I got up grabbed an Arisaka cocked it and safed it and unsafed it in the blink of an eye. You have to use the heel of your hand to rotate it. Mosin safety A LOT harder to use!

And a Mauser wing safety is the easiest of all!

polishshooter · 08-17-2007, 12:12 PM

I dunno, PS, my favorite besides the Garand's is the one on my M95 Steyrs...positive on and off, but on every one I've owned (Doesn't that sound better than "all 3?"

) you could tilt it to the left just a little and pull back slightly on the thumb piece on the cocker (which is situated almost EXACTLY where the hammer would be on a Winchester so it's very natural) and the safety will silently FALL off, which strikes me as a handy tool say like right before an ambush where any other rifle might "click" audibly even a little bit, in a situation with other rifles that you just KNOW some guys leave them OFF making an AD that would REALLY blow it because of nerves quite possible...

cosmo05 · 09-08-2007, 01:02 PM

Mosin, there is no other rifle!!!
I'd take a Mosin over a 98K for reliability, durability, ease of servicing and cleaning and they can actually be deadly accurate. I have many of both and I find myself firing MNs way more often than Mausers.
Looks like the vote is 50/50 now, Mosins will pull ahead in the end.

southernshooter · 09-08-2007, 09:48 PM

Well, I guess I'll be the tie breaker. On the poll the Mosin is best by far. However if ya would have put a real errrrrrrrrrrrrr I mean Enfield on the list I would have voted for it

AngelDeville · 09-08-2007, 09:58 PM

Hmmm..... do I want a rifle built by slave labor....

-OR-

one built by people fighting so they don't become slaves....

who would have the best quality control....

Pistolenschutze · 09-08-2007, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelDeville

Hmmm..... do I want a rifle built by slave labor....

Most Mausers weren't, Angel. The vast majority were built by the German arms industry before and during the war with ordinary civilian labor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelDeville

-OR-

one built by people fighting so they don't become slaves....

True, Angel, because they already were slaves, under both the Tsars and Stalin!

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelDeville

who would have the best quality control....

Good question. I'm betting on the Germans!

AngelDeville · 09-08-2007, 10:14 PM

see it could go either way, I suggest we all have at LEAST one of each...

Pistolenschutze · 09-08-2007, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelDeville

see it could go either way, I suggest we all have at LEAST one of each...

Now that I can agree with!

In fact, I own several of both!

~cletus~ · 09-17-2007, 08:01 PM

The mosin was intended as a crude weapon to arm a ham handed illiterate peasent army, the mauser was engineered to be the pinnacle of bolt rifle engineering.
Various parts of Paul Mausers design are still being used today, that claim cannot be said for the mosin-nagant.
So for arming inbred peasent conscripts I would choose the Mosin for arming professional soldiers I would choose the Mauser.

CCubed · 09-18-2007, 07:06 AM

(1) I can't imagine how anyone could think that the Mosin bolt is simpler than the Mauser 98 bolt... It's just unthinkable, to me. Sorry.
(2) I do kinda view Mausers as being the more fragile of the two. That said, though, Mausers are far more technical, etc., than the Mosin.

I'd have to go with the Mauser. The Mosin is a great gun, but it finds its roots in the timeless Russian tradition of building rifles that will shoot under all conditions, regardless of accuracy. (Not that this is necessarily a bad tradition, but if I know how to maintain my weapon, I might as well carry a better, more technical, more accurate weapon like the KAR 98k than the more conscript Mosin variants).

momo · 09-18-2007, 11:04 AM

The Finnish sniper polishshooter was talking about was Simo Hayha, he served 100 days in the Winter War of 1939-40 against the Soviets. He racked up over 500 kills, mainly using a mosin nagant m28. I have a M28, M39 and a K98 in my collection. The K98 shoots ok, but the M28 and M39 shoot lights out. I don't know about the Russian mosins, but the Finish mosins are highly accurate.

Smokehouse69 · 09-30-2007, 10:35 PM

Mauser, I'd put any of my run of the mill 98's against a Moisin any day. The best shooting Mauser I have is a Turkish arsenal rework of a Gew98, it will shoot 1" groups all day long at 50 yards, my 56 year old eyes don't see well enough to shoot open sights at 100 yards anymore.

polishshooter · 10-01-2007, 08:43 AM

Funny, I would put ANY stock Mosin, against ANY stock Mauser at 100 yds. 5 shots for accuracy. AND bet my next paycheck!

I'd be a rich man!

It would take you Mausernuts 5 shots to get on PAPER with the lowest sight setting of 300 meters. That 100 meter sight setting on the Mosin makes it the BEST milsurp "plinker" and casual shooter for the same reason.

And even the German troops in Russia PREFERRED Mosins for
accuracy" over their Mausers. there are MANY anecdotal accounts.

And as to the claim that the "Mauser lives on while the Mosin is dead?"

UH, WRONG again! The Mauser died QUICKLY after WWII as an ISSUE military weapon, the Mosin Nagant was issued to Finnish Soldiers until the early 1990s, the Romanian Army until the mid-1990s, and OTHERS, is STILL issued as a sniper rifle in many former Combloc countries, INCLUDING Russia, and incidentally was used in international high power competition right up until the fall of the USSR, and in fact was the rifle the Russians used to kick the butt of our USMC International rifle team, in the 70s and 80s!

Now I'm SURE Bunny will come back and tell us the Enfield is even better, since it's STILL issued to the Canadian Inuit Rangers or some such,

but those were not MAUSERS being hurredly taken from the embassies in Kosovo just before our Abrams rolled into town, they were M44s!

As a BATTLE rifle, the Mosin had it ALL over the Mauser 98. The Mauser 98 DOES make a better Sporting rifle though, simply because of the safety and ability to use rimless cartridges makes it much more versatile. Couple that with ALL the aftermarket triggers, sights and stuff, it's no wonder there are more Mauser style sporting rifles out there. BUT that is JUST as much to do with the fact Mosins were RARE in the US until the 1990s, heck most of us didn't know how to SPELL it correctly much less have SHOT one until then, so it makes sense, since US shooters have had the 98 Mauser since post WWI.

But give it time, more and more Mosins are in the hands of shooters and aftermarket stuff is coming on line, considering that Mosins are now as popular as Mausers, give it a few years and you guys WILL be converted...

Hey, the Mauser is GOOD, just not AS....

JLA · 10-01-2007, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polishshooter

Hey, the Mauser is GOOD, just not AS....

good as an ENFIELD!!!!

Cetme_Man · 10-05-2007, 01:07 AM

I have both Mauser and Mosin 91/30 Id have to say I like the Mosin the best, I have impressed so many of my friends with my shooting ability and in my head I know its because of my rifle but I dont tell them that

But its just a matter of which you like better kinda like the Chevy and Ford wars, Im a Chevy guy, as I like a truck that will run....

Remember a gun is only as good and accurate as the shooter will let it be.

Pistolenschutze · 10-10-2007, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cetme_Man

IBut its just a matter of which you like better kinda like the Chevy and Ford wars . . .

Actually, comparing a Mosin to a Mauser is more like comparing a stripped down KIA to a fully equipped Hummer, IMHO.

Of course, Polish seems to prefer the simpler, cruder things in life. I suspect he's a Luddite at heart.

greenspear · 10-15-2007, 05:30 PM

Personaly I can shoot faster with a mn probably 5 to 3
I have a very accurate 91 from 1916 and a very accurate Finn 39

MNs fit in my hands better.

I have 2 91/30s that have good enough accuracy at any normal combat range. If the mauser is more accurate it isnt enough more.

Soldiers today have said they would use a finn mn in combat but never heard any say a mauser.

mn has longer service record and better service record.

i have known people to not buy surplus after getting the mauser but started back up after the mn. Im surprised that I have not known many people with enfields. I have 3 Ishapores and The MNs shoot way faster but holds less rounds.

MN has a better and longer record than the Mauser.

Germanys Mausers lost.

More Germans used MN than Russians used Mausers.

Accuracy isnt different enough for iether to loose effect at any normal combat range.

MN has better sights, shoots faster, more durable, easier to produce and less parts to maintain.
These are what make or brake a combat rifle and not the safety or a hair of more accuracy.

Arguing that the Mauser has a better safety pretty much says your grabbing at straws to find a reason why the Mauser is better.

Again Germany and its Mausers lost.

Don't forget that the more accurate AR lost to the more durable SKS and AK and the MosinNagant in vietnam.

Has the Mauser ever won a war?

LDBennett · 10-16-2007, 07:16 AM

greenspear:

"Has the Mauser ever won a war?"

YES. The commercial war!

Virtually ever sucessfull bolt action today uses the basic design of the Mauser. What gun today looks or is designed like the Mosin-Nagant?

If a person likes ugly then the Mosin-Nagant is the gun for them. I'll take the lines of a Mauser, a Winchester Model 70, a Ruger Model 77, the new Remington 798 (is that the right number?), and many customs that all emulate the Mauser design. The Mauser design is still alive today. Where's the Mosin-Nagant? Well, its been relegated to a has-been surplus rifle that you get at Big Five Sporting Goods stores for $90. Even surplus Mausers are worth a couple hundred dollars and much more in some cases.

Just having fun with the M-N vs. Mauser topic. I couldn't resist. Please don't take offense.

LDBennett

View Poll Results: Mauser or Mosin Nagant-YOU are serving on the Eastern Front and must CHOOSE!
KAR 98 Mauser	22	51.16%
Mosin Nagant M91/30	21	48.84%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

08-14-2007, 10:42 AM	#26
Popgunner Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Contributor Posts: 1,764	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT I have to take exception to the comment that 91/30's are more accurate than M-38's. I'll go along with the M-44's being on the inacurate side but I have two M-38's that both have outshot any 91/30 I've had or seen. I've tested with scopes from the bench & the M-38's I've had outshot any Mosin I've had except my M-39's. The M-44's do shoot better to point of aim with the bayo extended but have not in my experience shot as accurately as the M-38's Just my .02

08-14-2007, 11:38 AM	#27
k98k792 Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Third stone from the sun Posts: 42	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT Have to disagree again. After reading this I got up grabbed an Arisaka cocked it and safed it and unsafed it in the blink of an eye. You have to use the heel of your hand to rotate it. Mosin safety A LOT harder to use! __________________ Administrator www.militaryfirearm.com

08-14-2007, 08:13 PM	#28
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,859	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT Actually, 98, the "push while turning" on my son's Arisaka is just as slow as the PULL while turning of my Mosin, the problem as I see it, is each Mosin is a little different in how much pressure is needed, while every at least T38 Arisaka I've handled seems about the same. But you JUST know both Japs and Russians (life was cheap to BOTH sides, just more accepted by the average Jap grunt, probably not as much by the Russians, but unavoidable nonetheless...) probably either carried it with it OFF, or else at least uncocked, and flipped the bolt handle up quickly to fire. And neither side reported "ADs" or accidental shootings in their records.... And as for the M38s being more accurate than the M44s, Pops, I have not found that to be the case, and I've shot 30 or so M44s and 8 M38s...just about EVERY M44 was accurate, even the parts guns, while I went through 7 M38s before I found a "keeper." I "function test" each out back at 40-50 yds, and EVERY M44, Russian, Romanian, Hungarian, and Polish I've shot could shoot 2-3"" offhand at that range, and fairly rapid fire too. (my standard function test after the headspace test is 5 rounds slow fire, then slam in a stripper after the last one{not every one likes strippers!} and shoot five as fast as I can work the bolt and regain sight picture....) NONE of the M38s until the last one would do that, most were 4-5" at BEST. And the GOOD one I kept does only about 3".... Now part of the problem was THIS batch of M38s, maybe earlier batches that I missed out on were more accurate, but every one I've owned had the counterbored barrels, which was probably done at rearsenal to remove the damage to the rifling at the muzzle from Russian cleaning methods. NO M44s I've owned was either damaged there OR counterbored. And while i've had SOME "dark bores" in 44s, EVERY 38 (including this one) is "dark." It stands to reason, virtually EVERY M38 saw action in WWII, most of it HARD, cavalry and partisan, right through to the end. The M44 missed the worst of it, 41-43, except for the hundred thousand or so from November-Dec 1943, and while they DID issue it to straight leg infantry units, MOST went to service, artillery, support, and training...most line regiments at this time were virtually all armed with Ppshs...even most of the 44-45 wartime ones have decent bores, and virtually all the late 1945, and post war Russians, saw LITTLE service, so usually have pristine bores. The HUNGARIANS for some reason are always in WORST shape overall, (Maybe the Hungarian Revolution?) but were some of my BEST and smoothest shooters regardless of condition... Polish ones are generally "tighter" and cleaner, but most I've seen and all I've owned were from the 1952 batch that was intended to reequip the North Koreans, but never made it, so probably were never even shot. Even the Chinese Type 53 I owned could outshoot my 38s.... But the 38 IS much handier, and one of my favorites... Now what's funny is I've shot about 10 or so 91/30s, I own 4 now, ranging from a 1920 transition that is REALLY ratty to a 1943 wartime that is almost pristine, and they were/are ALL accurate, regardless of condition or bore, but the "crude" wartime one is the MOSt accurate one I've owned, at least not counting any of the Finns I used to own.... One thing about the 44s, make sure you shoot them with the bayonet folded and then again with it extended, they DO print to different points of aim, I never believed it until I tried it! Not MUCH, and it probably wouldn't mean much in combat, but it is noticeable....according to legend they were sighted to point of aim with the bayonet EXTENDED, which makes sense if you know Russian doctrine... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. Last edited by polishshooter; 08-14-2007 at 08:28 PM..

08-15-2007, 12:53 PM	#29
k98k792 Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Third stone from the sun Posts: 42	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT I have seen archive footage of WW2 Japanese soldiers preparing to get into landing craft,and putting on the safety. I expected to see them throw that crazy action cover overboard though. All I can say is that the safety's on my Arisakas work alot faster then any of my MNs. I have a very nice M-38 and can't really tell any difference between it and the M44. Of course the 91/30s are more accurate. Though all them are limited by the ammo. I guess polishooter since you hand load for yours,you can overcome that . One thing I do love, is the look of the Russian refurbs laminate. I hate that dang Russian lacquer though. __________________ Administrator www.militaryfirearm.com

08-15-2007, 07:53 PM	#30
Mosin_Nagant_Fan Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Montgomery, AL Posts: 1,832	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT Russian surplus is so plentiful, I'm considering having mine refinished in a lighter color. Though my M38 is a low number (629), there's very little value in 'em. __________________ Long Gun Collection: M38 Mosin-Nagant Carbine Russian 1950 SKS Winchester 1300 20Ga Western Field Single-Shot 16Ga Sears Ranger .22S-L-LR Bolt-Action Rifle Marlin 795 Semi-Auto (Brother's) Handgun Collection: Springfield Armory XD9 Service

08-16-2007, 08:44 PM	#31
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,859	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT K, there's some very good milsurp x54 out there, and some very bad... I've shot the spectrum from crappy Albanian to decent Albanian, to several batches and years of Russian from the 1960s through the late '80s, Polish, Czech, and Hungarian, both light and heavy ball. The WORST was the early 1980s Albanian, 7-8" groups at 100 from a bench through my scoped rifles, and VERY brittle brass cases, about one in 10 split and blew gas and crud through the action... The LATE 80s Albanian was better, I went through two tins of it with no problems, although not much serious target work, just function testing and plinking. I really liked the brass cases at the time, when most milsurp x54 is steel cased. The BEST was the Polish...I got a hair over 2" from my Polish with the conventional scope, and a hair under 3" from the scout with the 4X EER scope at 100...but wouldn't you know it, it dried up before I could buy another tin or so...I have about 200 rds left and I'm hoarding it. You usually can't go wrong with any Russian ammo, though it varies, I probably would stick to it if no Polish was available. The Czech seemed to work well too, but I try to stay away from any green lacquer painted cases... I haven't fired the Hungarian enough to really tell much, I'm going to the range Saturday, maybe I'll throw in a couple of packs and try them from a bench... I also haven't yet tried any of that Russian "sniper" ammo yet, mainly because I have a hard time justifying $8/20 for milsurp when a box of new reloadable commercial goes $8.99.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

08-17-2007, 07:44 AM	#32
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,859	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT MN Fan, don't refinish it if it's a real M38 stock, those are not as common, but if it's in an M44 stock, go right ahead. M44 stocks are a dime a dozen. ANd the lighter stocks DO make them look good, except it's harder to hide the "dings." While most 38s that were rearsenaled were put into M44 stocks, and all built in 1944 and 45 probably started out in M44 stocks since they quit making the M38 stocks when they adopted the 44, because it fit, so M44 stocked M38s are still "correct," I have always preferred mine in the "real" stock, and have found out most other collectors do too... In fact, even I have even paid a premium to buy one in a store or at a show just because it was in a "real" stock, knowing I could quickly get my money out of it, and maybe a little MORE when I sold iteven if it didn't shoot well... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

08-17-2007, 12:12 PM	#34
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,859	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT I dunno, PS, my favorite besides the Garand's is the one on my M95 Steyrs...positive on and off, but on every one I've owned (Doesn't that sound better than "all 3?" ) you could tilt it to the left just a little and pull back slightly on the thumb piece on the cocker (which is situated almost EXACTLY where the hammer would be on a Winchester so it's very natural) and the safety will silently FALL off, which strikes me as a handy tool say like right before an ambush where any other rifle might "click" audibly even a little bit, in a situation with other rifles that you just KNOW some guys leave them OFF making an AD that would REALLY blow it because of nerves quite possible... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

09-08-2007, 01:02 PM	#35
cosmo05 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 51	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT Mosin, there is no other rifle!!! I'd take a Mosin over a 98K for reliability, durability, ease of servicing and cleaning and they can actually be deadly accurate. I have many of both and I find myself firing MNs way more often than Mausers. Looks like the vote is 50/50 now, Mosins will pull ahead in the end.

09-08-2007, 09:48 PM	#36
southernshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep South Mississippi Posts: 5,943	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT Well, I guess I'll be the tie breaker. On the poll the Mosin is best by far. However if ya would have put a real errrrrrrrrrrrrr I mean Enfield on the list I would have voted for it __________________ Only you can see this

09-08-2007, 09:58 PM	#37
AngelDeville Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: ABQ Posts: 644	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT Hmmm..... do I want a rifle built by slave labor.... -OR- one built by people fighting so they don't become slaves.... who would have the best quality control....

09-08-2007, 10:14 PM	#39
AngelDeville Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: ABQ Posts: 644	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT see it could go either way, I suggest we all have at LEAST one of each...

09-17-2007, 08:01 PM	#41
~cletus~ Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT The mosin was intended as a crude weapon to arm a ham handed illiterate peasent army, the mauser was engineered to be the pinnacle of bolt rifle engineering. Various parts of Paul Mausers design are still being used today, that claim cannot be said for the mosin-nagant. So for arming inbred peasent conscripts I would choose the Mosin for arming professional soldiers I would choose the Mauser.

09-18-2007, 07:06 AM	#42
CCubed V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Near Harrisburg, PA Posts: 62	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT (1) I can't imagine how anyone could think that the Mosin bolt is simpler than the Mauser 98 bolt... It's just unthinkable, to me. Sorry. (2) I do kinda view Mausers as being the more fragile of the two. That said, though, Mausers are far more technical, etc., than the Mosin. I'd have to go with the Mauser. The Mosin is a great gun, but it finds its roots in the timeless Russian tradition of building rifles that will shoot under all conditions, regardless of accuracy. (Not that this is necessarily a bad tradition, but if I know how to maintain my weapon, I might as well carry a better, more technical, more accurate weapon like the KAR 98k than the more conscript Mosin variants). __________________ Lee Enfield No. 4 Mk I* Yugo M48A Hungarian M44 M91/30, 1941, Izhevsk WASR-10 KAR 98k - bcd 41 - byf 43 - 237, 1939 FR-7

09-18-2007, 11:04 AM	#43
momo Former Guest Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 300	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT The Finnish sniper polishshooter was talking about was Simo Hayha, he served 100 days in the Winter War of 1939-40 against the Soviets. He racked up over 500 kills, mainly using a mosin nagant m28. I have a M28, M39 and a K98 in my collection. The K98 shoots ok, but the M28 and M39 shoot lights out. I don't know about the Russian mosins, but the Finish mosins are highly accurate.

09-30-2007, 10:35 PM	#44
Smokehouse69 Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: South Texas Posts: 4	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT Mauser, I'd put any of my run of the mill 98's against a Moisin any day. The best shooting Mauser I have is a Turkish arsenal rework of a Gew98, it will shoot 1" groups all day long at 50 yards, my 56 year old eyes don't see well enough to shoot open sights at 100 yards anymore.

10-01-2007, 08:43 AM	#45
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,859	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT Funny, I would put ANY stock Mosin, against ANY stock Mauser at 100 yds. 5 shots for accuracy. AND bet my next paycheck! I'd be a rich man! It would take you Mausernuts 5 shots to get on PAPER with the lowest sight setting of 300 meters. That 100 meter sight setting on the Mosin makes it the BEST milsurp "plinker" and casual shooter for the same reason. And even the German troops in Russia PREFERRED Mosins for accuracy" over their Mausers. there are MANY anecdotal accounts. And as to the claim that the "Mauser lives on while the Mosin is dead?" UH, WRONG again! The Mauser died QUICKLY after WWII as an ISSUE military weapon, the Mosin Nagant was issued to Finnish Soldiers until the early 1990s, the Romanian Army until the mid-1990s, and OTHERS, is STILL issued as a sniper rifle in many former Combloc countries, INCLUDING Russia, and incidentally was used in international high power competition right up until the fall of the USSR, and in fact was the rifle the Russians used to kick the butt of our USMC International rifle team, in the 70s and 80s! Now I'm SURE Bunny will come back and tell us the Enfield is even better, since it's STILL issued to the Canadian Inuit Rangers or some such, but those were not MAUSERS being hurredly taken from the embassies in Kosovo just before our Abrams rolled into town, they were M44s! As a BATTLE rifle, the Mosin had it ALL over the Mauser 98. The Mauser 98 DOES make a better Sporting rifle though, simply because of the safety and ability to use rimless cartridges makes it much more versatile. Couple that with ALL the aftermarket triggers, sights and stuff, it's no wonder there are more Mauser style sporting rifles out there. BUT that is JUST as much to do with the fact Mosins were RARE in the US until the 1990s, heck most of us didn't know how to SPELL it correctly much less have SHOT one until then, so it makes sense, since US shooters have had the 98 Mauser since post WWI. But give it time, more and more Mosins are in the hands of shooters and aftermarket stuff is coming on line, considering that Mosins are now as popular as Mausers, give it a few years and you guys WILL be converted... Hey, the Mauser is GOOD, just not AS.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

10-05-2007, 01:07 AM	#47
Cetme_Man Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 12	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT I have both Mauser and Mosin 91/30 Id have to say I like the Mosin the best, I have impressed so many of my friends with my shooting ability and in my head I know its because of my rifle but I dont tell them that But its just a matter of which you like better kinda like the Chevy and Ford wars, Im a Chevy guy, as I like a truck that will run.... Remember a gun is only as good and accurate as the shooter will let it be. __________________ God Bless America and our right to bear arms! Last edited by Cetme_Man; 10-05-2007 at 01:14 AM..

10-15-2007, 05:30 PM	#49
greenspear Former Guest Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 12	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT Personaly I can shoot faster with a mn probably 5 to 3 I have a very accurate 91 from 1916 and a very accurate Finn 39 MNs fit in my hands better. I have 2 91/30s that have good enough accuracy at any normal combat range. If the mauser is more accurate it isnt enough more. Soldiers today have said they would use a finn mn in combat but never heard any say a mauser. mn has longer service record and better service record. i have known people to not buy surplus after getting the mauser but started back up after the mn. Im surprised that I have not known many people with enfields. I have 3 Ishapores and The MNs shoot way faster but holds less rounds. MN has a better and longer record than the Mauser. Germanys Mausers lost. More Germans used MN than Russians used Mausers. Accuracy isnt different enough for iether to loose effect at any normal combat range. MN has better sights, shoots faster, more durable, easier to produce and less parts to maintain. These are what make or brake a combat rifle and not the safety or a hair of more accuracy. Arguing that the Mauser has a better safety pretty much says your grabbing at straws to find a reason why the Mauser is better. Again Germany and its Mausers lost. Don't forget that the more accurate AR lost to the more durable SKS and AK and the MosinNagant in vietnam. Has the Mauser ever won a war?

10-16-2007, 07:16 AM	#50
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,709	Re: Let's settle it once for all...MAUSER vs. MOSIN NAGANT greenspear: "Has the Mauser ever won a war?" YES. The commercial war! Virtually ever sucessfull bolt action today uses the basic design of the Mauser. What gun today looks or is designed like the Mosin-Nagant? If a person likes ugly then the Mosin-Nagant is the gun for them. I'll take the lines of a Mauser, a Winchester Model 70, a Ruger Model 77, the new Remington 798 (is that the right number?), and many customs that all emulate the Mauser design. The Mauser design is still alive today. Where's the Mosin-Nagant? Well, its been relegated to a has-been surplus rifle that you get at Big Five Sporting Goods stores for $90. Even surplus Mausers are worth a couple hundred dollars and much more in some cases. Just having fun with the M-N vs. Mauser topic. I couldn't resist. Please don't take offense. LDBennett