Question about firing pin mark on my primers

[bluesea112]

I fired a couple of my .308 Win reloads today and notices that the firing pin dent in the primer looked funny. The only way I can explain it is to say that the dent had slight walls like the walls of a volcano. If you were to run your finger over the primer, you would feel a very tiny rough spot around the perimeter of the firing pin dent. Does that make sense?
Would this dent be caused by high pressure, or is it caused by not seating my primers deep enough? Any information would be appreciated.

Update: Sorry, I forgot to list my load information. I am using 40.25 grains of IMR 4895 powder with CCI large rifle primers and Nosler 180gr Ballistic Tip Bullets. Brass is brand new Winchester, straight from the factory.

[Popgunner]

Cratered indents can be causd by the end of your firing pin being misshapen or by the bore in your bolt where the pin resides being wallered out but not to my knowledge from a hot load.

If it worries you you could switch to CCI military style primers that have tougher cups on them.

[bluesea112]

Thank you for the reply popgunner. That information makes me feel better. I don't mind cratered indents, as long as they are not a bad sign.

[steve4102]

Cratered primer can be signs of high pressure.

I have some questions about your load.
Are you sure it is IMR 4895 and not H4895?
What is your powder charge? 40.25 doesn't make sense. Do you mean 40.5 or 42.5?
Is this the only charge weight you have tried? If not, what did the others look like.

[bluesea112]

Yes, I am sure it is IMR 4895. I apologize for the error on the amount of powder I was using. I put the decimal in the wrong place. The correct grain number is 42.5 grains. As a matter of fact, I am getting the crater mark on the primer with all of the following loads: 40.00, 41.00, 41.50, 42.00, and 42.50 grains

Since my first post, I have taken a closer look at the depth of the primer in the pocket. I noticed that the primer is not sitting flush with the cartridge surface. The primer is sitting about 1/100" outside of flush, so this is probably the reason for the crater. No matter what I do, I cannot seem to get the primer any deeper into the pocket.
I am using a rather low tech method of primer seating. I set the primer on a wooden table and then place the cartridge case over the primer. I then lightly tap the cartridge down on the primer with a small wooden mallet. I have tried tapping a little harder, but the primer will just not go deeper into the primer pocket.
I wonder if I could use a wooden punch with the impact end of the punch being the exact diameter of the primer? Any suggestions?

[steve4102]

Primer should be seated .003 to.005 below flush with the case head.
This is a favorite of many handloaders http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...875&t=11082005 You must purchase a special shell holder to use this priming tool. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...897&t=11082005

If you want a priming tool that takes standard shell holder look here. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...291&t=11082005

[AngelDeville]

Please use the proper tools for seating primers, I high primer can cause the rifle to fire upon chambering a round, and $25 worth of priming tools could have prevented a serious accident.

[bluesea112]

Thanks for the info and link Steve......and I hear you Angel. I guess I will retire my mallet.

[inplanotx]

Originally Posted by bluesea112

Yes, I am sure it is IMR 4895. I apologize for the error on the amount of powder I was using. I put the decimal in the wrong place. The correct grain number is 42.5 grains. As a matter of fact, I am getting the crater mark on the primer with all of the following loads: 40.00, 41.00, 41.50, 42.00, and 42.50 grains

Since my first post, I have taken a closer look at the depth of the primer in the pocket. I noticed that the primer is not sitting flush with the cartridge surface. The primer is sitting about 1/100" outside of flush, so this is probably the reason for the crater. No matter what I do, I cannot seem to get the primer any deeper into the pocket.
I am using a rather low tech method of primer seating. I set the primer on a wooden table and then place the cartridge case over the primer. I then lightly tap the cartridge down on the primer with a small wooden mallet. I have tried tapping a little harder, but the primer will just not go deeper into the primer pocket.
I wonder if I could use a wooden punch with the impact end of the punch being the exact diameter of the primer? Any suggestions?

And just when you thought you've heard it all.......................

Only one suggestion...................get a good life insurance policy and make your wife the full beneficiary. Tapping in a primer with a wooden mallet??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I feel a Darwin Award coming up for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[millwright]

BS112,

Please, PLEASE, get a primer seating tool. As noted a properly installed primer must be .003-5" BELOW the pocket rim in order to avoid a "slam fire" - an event you never want to be a part of BTW......

Cleaning the pocket and seating the primer properly puts the correct amount of prestress on the anvil insuring consistent ignition.

What you describe is a "cratered primer" and cause are manifold. We've just hit upon the most likely, but I suspect there's other factors at work as well. Cratered primers also indicate extreme pressures such as overcharging, incorrect bullet jump, tight necks, etc.

After reading how you set primers I submit you need to take a long hard look at your reloading procedures and equipment. Correct presses, dies and simple tools are dirt cheap - particularly when compared to what the medical profession charges. I'll also note you're probably short-changing yourself on accuraccy and performance from reloading properly. >MW

[bluesea112]

As I sit in the aftermath of the attack, I would like to remind y'all of the following: "Different" does not necessarily mean "wrong".
Y'all may not be aware that cartridge cases have been primed with a wooden mallet/wooden table for generations by many people. As a matter of fact, I learned this method from an 84 year old man who has been reloading without incident for over 50 years. The mistake I was making was that I was using a table with a hard finish. I found out that the correct way is to use a hard wood mallet and a soft wood table (pine is preferred). When you tap the mouth of the cartridge, it forces the cartridge down on the primer. Since the table is soft wood, the cartride rim around the primer hole is slightly compressed, which leaves the center under the primer to push the primer into the cartridge to a point just inside flush. Since the pressure is spread out over the surface of the primer, the primer is not detonated.
I understand your scepticism. No doubt Nikolaus Otto had his share of critics who thought his invention was crazy.

[Crpdeth]

BlueSea

Not everyone feels the same, I personally just feel that with todays technology there is no reason to work so hard on something that could be cured with a very inexpensive tool like the Lee priming tool...I've never used one, I use my presses, but I hear they are great...

I also read up on a lot of things like primitive living, surviving in the aftermath of some horrendious event, wilderness survival...Crazy stuff like that, and I have heard (more than once) of people useing these crude methods of handloading.

How is everything comeing along now? Are you getting better results?

[millwright]

BS112,

If by "attack" you feel offended that some are concerned for your safety.....so be it. Contraiwise, if you feel we're all being "overcautious" I can only observe I used to know one such sporting a toe where his thumb should be - after ignoring advice about pouring his next charge direct from horn to muzzle. He'll never play the piano again but he didn't anyway....but it sure played hell with his occupation as a machinist......

BTW, I'll bet that 'old timer' never told you how many primers he cooked off learning to do it his way......>MW

[Popgunner]

You guys are way over-reacting to his situation. I've loaded thousands of loads on lee loaders that prime just about the same way. The leeloaders priming rod does come out of the case when a large rifle primer goes off while seating-nothing catastophic. His method would be perfectly safe using safety glasses.
I think we should all get a feel for doing it Blue's way. I've done it along with using pliers to crimp the neck to hold the bullet. That stuff was spelled out in a handloaders digest years ago along with using cutoff cartridges for powder measures. Invaluable info for tough times. Safety glasses always needed.

Keep it real guys

[millwright]

PopGunner,

I loaded with a Lee for several years, myself. "Popped" a few primers, too. But with age and experience supposedly comes wisdom.... A hand primer gives a much better 'feel' for the amount of anvil prestress - which translates into consistent ignition which increases accuracy as do a lot of other things like neck turning, flash hole cleanup, etc.

But it all depends upon the degree of accuracy and safety one needs or is comfortable with. In my varmiter 'minute of groundhog' is the standard and its one hell of a lot finer than MOA......If that .308 is only used to plonk cans and kill critters at short range that's one level of accuracy where a lot of PF's aren't all that important. If, OTOH, you're trying to hit that elk in the boilerroom across a coulee, it will. >MW

[JLA]

the lee auto-prime hand primer is only about 10 bucks, no reason not to buy one and save a finger. or a toe?

[Popgunner]

I'm not against autoprimes-I have two & love 'em. I do think it's out of line to call a guy unsafe because he's loading primitively.

[bluesea112]

Loading Primitevely??? I sit on a nice leather chair in the air conditioning. As a matter of fact, my girlfriend even brought me a beer in a fancy frozen glass while I was popping out spent primers the other night. I had a few primitive thoughts after that, but they were not related to reloading.

[Popgunner]

sounds like a good night at the "loading bench"

[bluesea112]

[Crpdeth]

Originally Posted by bluesea112

Loading Primitevely??? I sit on a nice leather chair in the air conditioning. As a matter of fact, my girlfriend even brought me a beer in a fancy frozen glass while I was popping out spent primers the other night. I had a few primitive thoughts after that, but they were not related to reloading.

ROTF! Atta boy!