A black man speaks out.. - The Firearms Forum

strayshot · 09-03-2007, 12:18 PM

Here's a guy that calls it as he sees it....

Liberal Views, Black Victims
By Walter E. Williams
Wednesday, August 22, 2007

Last year, among the nation's 10 largest cities, Philadelphia had the highest murder rate with 406 victims. This year could easily top last year's with 240 murders so far.

Other cities such as Baltimore, Detroit and Washington, D.C., with large black populations, experience the nation's highest rates of murder and violent crime. This high murder rate is, and has been, predominantly a black problem.

According to Bureau of Justice statistics, between 1976 and 2005, blacks, while 13 percent of the population, committed over 52 percent of the nation's homicides and were 46 percent of the homicide victims. Ninety-four percent of black homicide victims had a black person as their murderer.

Blacks are not only the major victims of homicide; blacks suffer high rates of all categories of serious violent crime, and another black is most often the perpetrator.

Liberals and their political allies say the problem is the easy accessibility of guns and greater gun control is the solution. That has to be nonsense. Guns do not commit crimes; people do.

Up through 1979, the FBI reported homicide arrests sorted by racial breakdowns that included Japanese. Between 1976 and 1978, 21 of 48,695 arrests for murder and non-negligent manslaughter were Japanese-Americans. That translates to an annual murder rate of 1 per 100,000 of the Japanese-American population. Would anyone advance the argument that the reason why homicide is virtually nonexistent among Japanese-Americans is because they can't find guns?

The high victimization rate experienced by the overwhelmingly law-abiding black community is mostly the result of predators not having to pay a heavy enough price for their behavior. They benefit from all kinds of asinine excuses, such as poverty, racial discrimination and few employment opportunities.

During the 1940s and '50s, I grew up in North Philadelphia where many of today's murders occur. It was a time when blacks were much poorer, there was far more racial discrimination, and fewer employment opportunities and other opportunities for upward socioeconomic mobility were available. There was nowhere near the level of crime and wanton destruction that exists today. Behavior accepted today wasn't accepted then by either black adults or policemen.

Police authorities often know who are the local criminals and drug lords and where crack houses are located; however, various legal technicalities hamper their ability to make arrests and raids. Law-abiding citizens are often afraid to assist police or testify against criminals for fear of retaliation that can include murder. The level of criminal activity not only puts residents in physical jeopardy but represents a heavy tax on people least able to bear it. That heavy tax includes higher prices for goods and services and fewer shopping opportunities because supermarkets and other large retailers are reluctant to bear the costs of doing business in high-crime areas.

So here's the question: Should black people accept government's dereliction of its first basic function, that of providing protection? My answer is no. One of our basic rights is the right to defend oneself against predators. If the government can't or won't protect people, people have a right to protect themselves.

You say, "Hey, Williams, you're not talking about vigilantism, are you?" Yes, I am. Webster's Dictionary defines vigilantism as: a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily as when the processes of law are viewed as inadequate.

Example: A number of years ago, Black Muslims began to patrol Mayfair, a drug-infested, gang-ridden Washington, D.C., housing project. The gangs and drug lords left, probably because the Black Muslims didn't feel obliged to issue Miranda warnings. Black men should set up neighborhood patrols, armed if necessary, and if politicians and police don't like it, they should do their jobs. No one should have to live in daily fear for their lives and safety.

Dr. Williams serves on the faculty of George Mason University as John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics and is the author of More Liberty Means Less Government: Our Founders Knew This Well.

Be the first to read Walter Williams' column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.

©Creators Syndicate

Copyright © 2006 Salem Web Network. All Rights Reserved.

firebird · 09-03-2007, 01:03 PM

Where did you get this from?? Townhall.com??

By "liberals" do you (or Mr. Williams) mean Democrats? It always fascinates me how liberal is equated with Democrats when, one could argue, that advocating gun control (and the like) is indubitably a "conservative" principle.

All too often if a person claims to be affiliated with a certain political party, others make the mistake of automatically assuming that person completely embraces the ENTIRE dogma of that respective political party. That is simply not true.

Are Democrats the problem? --And before the majority of you fervently yell out "YES!"--In my opinion, just as in ANY organized belief system (religious, political, etc.--*side note: it's amazing how incredibly similar politics and religion are) in any organized belief system there will ALWAYS be a few whack jobs. Unfortunately--for BOTH Democrats AND Republicans, those few whack jobs have somehow made his/her way into some form of "power" to be the "voice of the people". Well, I can assure you, they aren't MY voice. But because I say I'm a "liberal", it's automatically assumed that I belief a certain way. My God, think about it for one damn second...if that were so, why the hell would I be on HERE??? Am I argumentative? Yup. But damn...I'm not so much so to come on here if I didn't hold some of the same beliefs are those on here.

strayshot · 09-03-2007, 01:46 PM

...I'm not a big 'label' guy.

firebird · 09-03-2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strayshot

...I'm not a big 'label' guy.

Groovy

strayshot · 09-03-2007, 01:56 PM

I'm not a liberal either.

firebird · 09-03-2007, 02:05 PM

Good for you

strayshot · 09-03-2007, 02:11 PM

I subscribe to the garage logic, do what makes the most sense party line.

firebird · 09-03-2007, 02:15 PM

groovy

armedandsafe · 09-03-2007, 02:17 PM

Hmmmmm Doing a word search, I didn't find the word "Democrat" until getting to your post, FireBird. I find it amazing that so many people automatically assume that the two words are synonymous. I think many people are using the term "liberal" when they actually mean "socialist" or "leftist" because that is the meaning attached to the type by those who oppose those views. The terms "liberal" and "conservative" have been morphed into meanings completely removed from anything Mr. Webster would recognize.

Pops

firebird · 09-03-2007, 02:31 PM

Yeah, you're right Pops, this particular thread did not use the exact word "Democrat". However, gimme a break, Pops...you (should) know as well as I that the word "Democrat" has been used before my post today and in the context I aforementioned.

armedandsafe · 09-03-2007, 03:02 PM

Hey, gimme a break, FireBird. You know I can't resist ragging on you a little bit, when it gives me a chance to get my $0.02 slipped in.

Pops

firebird · 09-03-2007, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armedandsafe

Hey, gimme a break, FireBird. You know I can't resist ragging on you a little bit, when it gives me a chance to get my $0.02 slipped in.

Pops

Rag on, my friend!

Whatever blows wind up your skirt!

KING64 · 09-03-2007, 03:50 PM

Yes there is a difference in the words "socialist", "liberal" and Democrat. Unfortunately there a quite a number of socialists within the Democrat party.

berto64 · 09-03-2007, 05:28 PM

Geez, there for a minute I thought Firebird was getting a little thin skinned.

Course she is a citizen of "The Democratic Liberal Republic Of New Joisey". lol

I can talk because my dad was from Hopewell near Princeton. Then he left.

Prizefighter · 09-03-2007, 11:13 PM

You know, after reading this article it occurs to me that virtually all of the social problems I can think of in our society take root in an inability for people to recognize that the trouble is in their own back yards, and can't be solved by imposing restrictions on someone else.

-Gun Control
Violence isn't new, ok? Americans, or even homo sapiens, don't have the patent on it. Violence is a force of nature. Another shocker? Even assuming you could make it impossible for a criminal to get a gun, or even a big knife, he'll shrug and say "that's ok, a claw hammer will do."

-Violent Media
Real simple: if you don't like what your kid is watching, YOU turn it off and send him outside. Don't try to limit what I as an adult watch and play in my leisure time because YOU are too lazy to do your own parenting.

-Racism
This could encompass paragraphs upon paragraphs, but I think I can make it pretty simple. I can probably count on one hand how many times I heard a white person use the n-word around me in the last 6-12 months. I couldn't count on both hands how many times the n-word is used in 3.5 minutes in some of the current hit rap songs from black "artists." And don't give me that crap about "taking the power out of the word." After 20 years of hip hop music, I think the power would pretty well be taken.

I could go on, but the trend continues. The simple answer to so many problems today is for people to take responsibility for their own fate, and not waste so much time blaming everyone else for their problems.

Edit:
On a related note, since when did vigilantism and vengeance become dirty words? I personally feel that both can be highly noble virtues and pursuits.

Him - "No, don't shoot that serial rapist and drug pusher! He's not worth it!:
Me - "Whattaya mean, not worth it? This one cartridge only costs about 10 cents."

strayshot · 09-04-2007, 04:46 AM

..thanks for actually responding to the original post Prizefighter.

Don Buckbee · 09-04-2007, 06:41 AM

Prizefighter nailed it!!! BIG!!
And, Walter Williams is one of the good guys. He's on our side, regardless of his skin color. The measure of a Man is his stand on issues, and Walter Williams stands for everything good.

Don

Bruce FLinch · 09-04-2007, 09:49 AM

I have to agree w/ Mr Williams & Mr. Prizefighter.

It's been too easy for too long to blame society for all the ills in the USA & World. Bring back the concept of Self-Responsibility!

Nighthawk · 09-04-2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce FLinch

I have to agree w/ Mr Williams & Mr. Prizefighter.

It's been too easy for too long to blame society for all the ills in the USA & World. Bring back the concept of Self-Responsibility!

AMEN

firebird · 09-04-2007, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berto64

Geez, there for a minute I thought Firebird was getting a little thin skinned.

Course she is a citizen of "The Democratic Liberal Republic Of New Joisey". lol

I can talk because my dad was from Hopewell near Princeton. Then he left.

Me?!?!?!?! Never!!

Where the hell did you get I was from/in New Jersey??????

KING64 · 09-04-2007, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prizefighter

On a related note, since when did vigilantism and vengeance become dirty words? I personally feel that both can be highly noble virtues and pursuits.

Surely you jest. Not to deny there are those who deserve to be dispatched for their heinous crimes against others but I am not ready to abandon the protection of due process any more than I am ready to abandon the protection of the 2nd Amendment.

Prizefighter · 09-04-2007, 12:01 PM

Oh no, don't misunderstand. I don't want the world to be more like the Wild West. (At least I don't think so.

) I belive in due process too, as long as it's working the way it should. Protecting the rights of citizens, not protecting criminals through beaurocracy and technicalities.

Besides, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Guardian Angels, anyone? That is, back when they first formed, not the organization of today that's been pacified by a namby-pamby society.

09-03-2007, 12:18 PM	#1
strayshot V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: upper midwest Posts: 359	A black man speaks out.. Here's a guy that calls it as he sees it.... Liberal Views, Black Victims By Walter E. Williams Wednesday, August 22, 2007 Last year, among the nation's 10 largest cities, Philadelphia had the highest murder rate with 406 victims. This year could easily top last year's with 240 murders so far. Other cities such as Baltimore, Detroit and Washington, D.C., with large black populations, experience the nation's highest rates of murder and violent crime. This high murder rate is, and has been, predominantly a black problem. According to Bureau of Justice statistics, between 1976 and 2005, blacks, while 13 percent of the population, committed over 52 percent of the nation's homicides and were 46 percent of the homicide victims. Ninety-four percent of black homicide victims had a black person as their murderer. Blacks are not only the major victims of homicide; blacks suffer high rates of all categories of serious violent crime, and another black is most often the perpetrator. Liberals and their political allies say the problem is the easy accessibility of guns and greater gun control is the solution. That has to be nonsense. Guns do not commit crimes; people do. Up through 1979, the FBI reported homicide arrests sorted by racial breakdowns that included Japanese. Between 1976 and 1978, 21 of 48,695 arrests for murder and non-negligent manslaughter were Japanese-Americans. That translates to an annual murder rate of 1 per 100,000 of the Japanese-American population. Would anyone advance the argument that the reason why homicide is virtually nonexistent among Japanese-Americans is because they can't find guns? The high victimization rate experienced by the overwhelmingly law-abiding black community is mostly the result of predators not having to pay a heavy enough price for their behavior. They benefit from all kinds of asinine excuses, such as poverty, racial discrimination and few employment opportunities. During the 1940s and '50s, I grew up in North Philadelphia where many of today's murders occur. It was a time when blacks were much poorer, there was far more racial discrimination, and fewer employment opportunities and other opportunities for upward socioeconomic mobility were available. There was nowhere near the level of crime and wanton destruction that exists today. Behavior accepted today wasn't accepted then by either black adults or policemen. Police authorities often know who are the local criminals and drug lords and where crack houses are located; however, various legal technicalities hamper their ability to make arrests and raids. Law-abiding citizens are often afraid to assist police or testify against criminals for fear of retaliation that can include murder. The level of criminal activity not only puts residents in physical jeopardy but represents a heavy tax on people least able to bear it. That heavy tax includes higher prices for goods and services and fewer shopping opportunities because supermarkets and other large retailers are reluctant to bear the costs of doing business in high-crime areas. So here's the question: Should black people accept government's dereliction of its first basic function, that of providing protection? My answer is no. One of our basic rights is the right to defend oneself against predators. If the government can't or won't protect people, people have a right to protect themselves. You say, "Hey, Williams, you're not talking about vigilantism, are you?" Yes, I am. Webster's Dictionary defines vigilantism as: a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily as when the processes of law are viewed as inadequate. Example: A number of years ago, Black Muslims began to patrol Mayfair, a drug-infested, gang-ridden Washington, D.C., housing project. The gangs and drug lords left, probably because the Black Muslims didn't feel obliged to issue Miranda warnings. Black men should set up neighborhood patrols, armed if necessary, and if politicians and police don't like it, they should do their jobs. No one should have to live in daily fear for their lives and safety. Dr. Williams serves on the faculty of George Mason University as John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics and is the author of More Liberty Means Less Government: Our Founders Knew This Well. Be the first to read Walter Williams' column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox. ©Creators Syndicate Copyright © 2006 Salem Web Network. All Rights Reserved. __________________ -->

09-03-2007, 01:03 PM	#2
firebird Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the recesses of my little mind... Posts: 1,233	Re: A black man speaks out.. Where did you get this from?? Townhall.com?? By "liberals" do you (or Mr. Williams) mean Democrats? It always fascinates me how liberal is equated with Democrats when, one could argue, that advocating gun control (and the like) is indubitably a "conservative" principle. All too often if a person claims to be affiliated with a certain political party, others make the mistake of automatically assuming that person completely embraces the ENTIRE dogma of that respective political party. That is simply not true. Are Democrats the problem? --And before the majority of you fervently yell out "YES!"--In my opinion, just as in ANY organized belief system (religious, political, etc.--side note: it's amazing how incredibly similar politics and religion are) in any organized belief system there will ALWAYS be a few whack jobs. Unfortunately--for BOTH Democrats AND Republicans, those few whack jobs have somehow made his/her way into some form of "power" to be the "voice of the people". Well, I can assure you, they aren't MY voice. But because I say I'm a "liberal", it's automatically assumed that I belief a certain way. My God, think about it for one damn second...if that were so, why the hell would I be on HERE??? Am I argumentative? Yup. But damn...I'm not so much so to come on here if I didn't hold some of the same beliefs are those on here. __________________ **************************** “Let them call me a rebel, and welcome; I feel no concern from it. For I should suffer the misery of devils, were I to make a whore of my soul.” ~Thomas Paine "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." ~Confucius Alis volat propiis ~ She flies with her own wings Rara avis

09-03-2007, 01:46 PM	#3
strayshot V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: upper midwest Posts: 359	Re: A black man speaks out.. ...I'm not a big 'label' guy. __________________

09-03-2007, 01:56 PM	#5
strayshot V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: upper midwest Posts: 359	Re: A black man speaks out.. I'm not a liberal either. __________________

09-03-2007, 02:05 PM	#6
firebird Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the recesses of my little mind... Posts: 1,233	Re: A black man speaks out.. Good for you __________________ ***************************** “Let them call me a rebel, and welcome; I feel no concern from it. For I should suffer the misery of devils, were I to make a whore of my soul.” ~Thomas Paine "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." ~Confucius Alis volat propiis ~ She flies with her own wings Rara avis

09-03-2007, 02:11 PM	#7
strayshot V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: upper midwest Posts: 359	Re: A black man speaks out.. I subscribe to the garage logic, do what makes the most sense party line. __________________

09-03-2007, 02:15 PM	#8
firebird Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the recesses of my little mind... Posts: 1,233	Re: A black man speaks out.. groovy __________________ ***************************** “Let them call me a rebel, and welcome; I feel no concern from it. For I should suffer the misery of devils, were I to make a whore of my soul.” ~Thomas Paine "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." ~Confucius Alis volat propiis ~ She flies with her own wings Rara avis

09-03-2007, 02:17 PM	#9
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	Re: A black man speaks out.. Hmmmmm Doing a word search, I didn't find the word "Democrat" until getting to your post, FireBird. I find it amazing that so many people automatically assume that the two words are synonymous. I think many people are using the term "liberal" when they actually mean "socialist" or "leftist" because that is the meaning attached to the type by those who oppose those views. The terms "liberal" and "conservative" have been morphed into meanings completely removed from anything Mr. Webster would recognize. Pops

09-03-2007, 02:31 PM	#10
firebird Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the recesses of my little mind... Posts: 1,233	Re: A black man speaks out.. Yeah, you're right Pops, this particular thread did not use the exact word "Democrat". However, gimme a break, Pops...you (should) know as well as I that the word "Democrat" has been used before my post today and in the context I aforementioned. __________________ ***************************** “Let them call me a rebel, and welcome; I feel no concern from it. For I should suffer the misery of devils, were I to make a whore of my soul.” ~Thomas Paine "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." ~Confucius Alis volat propiis ~ She flies with her own wings Rara avis

09-03-2007, 03:02 PM	#11
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	Re: A black man speaks out.. Hey, gimme a break, FireBird. You know I can't resist ragging on you a little bit, when it gives me a chance to get my $0.02 slipped in. Pops

09-03-2007, 03:50 PM	#13
KING64 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Washington State Posts: 517	Re: A black man speaks out.. Yes there is a difference in the words "socialist", "liberal" and Democrat. Unfortunately there a quite a number of socialists within the Democrat party.

09-03-2007, 05:28 PM	#14
berto64 VMBB Admin Staff Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Owyhee County, Idaho Contributor Posts: 7,388	Re: A black man speaks out.. Geez, there for a minute I thought Firebird was getting a little thin skinned. Course she is a citizen of "The Democratic Liberal Republic Of New Joisey". lol I can talk because my dad was from Hopewell near Princeton. Then he left. __________________ Be who you are & say what you will, Those that matter won't mind and those that mind don't matter. I'm a bitter clinger, One Nation Under God.

09-03-2007, 11:13 PM	#15
Prizefighter V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: North Carolina Contributor Posts: 412	Re: A black man speaks out.. You know, after reading this article it occurs to me that virtually all of the social problems I can think of in our society take root in an inability for people to recognize that the trouble is in their own back yards, and can't be solved by imposing restrictions on someone else. -Gun Control Violence isn't new, ok? Americans, or even homo sapiens, don't have the patent on it. Violence is a force of nature. Another shocker? Even assuming you could make it impossible for a criminal to get a gun, or even a big knife, he'll shrug and say "that's ok, a claw hammer will do." -Violent Media Real simple: if you don't like what your kid is watching, YOU turn it off and send him outside. Don't try to limit what I as an adult watch and play in my leisure time because YOU are too lazy to do your own parenting. -Racism This could encompass paragraphs upon paragraphs, but I think I can make it pretty simple. I can probably count on one hand how many times I heard a white person use the n-word around me in the last 6-12 months. I couldn't count on both hands how many times the n-word is used in 3.5 minutes in some of the current hit rap songs from black "artists." And don't give me that crap about "taking the power out of the word." After 20 years of hip hop music, I think the power would pretty well be taken. I could go on, but the trend continues. The simple answer to so many problems today is for people to take responsibility for their own fate, and not waste so much time blaming everyone else for their problems. Edit: On a related note, since when did vigilantism and vengeance become dirty words? I personally feel that both can be highly noble virtues and pursuits. Him - "No, don't shoot that serial rapist and drug pusher! He's not worth it!: Me - "Whattaya mean, not worth it? This one cartridge only costs about 10 cents." Last edited by Prizefighter; 09-03-2007 at 11:17 PM..

09-04-2007, 04:46 AM	#16
strayshot V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: upper midwest Posts: 359	Re: A black man speaks out.. ..thanks for actually responding to the original post Prizefighter. __________________

09-04-2007, 06:41 AM	#17
Don Buckbee Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 712	Re: A black man speaks out.. Prizefighter nailed it!!! BIG!! And, Walter Williams is one of the good guys. He's on our side, regardless of his skin color. The measure of a Man is his stand on issues, and Walter Williams stands for everything good. Don __________________ Don JPFO NRA Benefactor Member NSSA Life Member

09-04-2007, 09:49 AM	#18
Bruce FLinch Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bay Point, Kali..aka Gun Point Posts: 5,016	Re: A black man speaks out.. I have to agree w/ Mr Williams & Mr. Prizefighter. It's been too easy for too long to blame society for all the ills in the USA & World. Bring back the concept of Self-Responsibility! __________________ A bad day @ the Range, is better than a good day @ work.

09-04-2007, 12:01 PM	#22
Prizefighter V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: North Carolina Contributor Posts: 412	Re: A black man speaks out.. Oh no, don't misunderstand. I don't want the world to be more like the Wild West. (At least I don't think so. ) I belive in due process too, as long as it's working the way it should. Protecting the rights of citizens, not protecting criminals through beaurocracy and technicalities. Besides, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Guardian Angels, anyone? That is, back when they first formed, not the organization of today that's been pacified by a namby-pamby society.