need advice..BP 1851 navy - The Firearms Forum

RugerBob · 11-03-2007, 04:50 AM

hi all, I have been shooting regular single action revolvers for a few years and enjoy it. also reload 45LC for revolvers and rifle. anyway, I just ordered 2 1851 BP navy revolvers from Taylor arms, I am new to black powder and don't know any one who shoots them where I shoot. So , any advice or input would be appriciated. They are 36 cal steel frame, octagon barrel.Thanks in advance all, Bob

polishshooter · 11-04-2007, 10:25 PM

My brass frame 1851 (actually my son's...) uses .375 balls or conicals...the misnomer is that hey were ".36s," they are actually "38s," just like the ".44s" are actually ".45s..."

We never shot much more than 15 grains FFFg Black Powder through ours, and usually kept it around 12, mainly because of the brass frame...with the steel frames you can go a little more.

Generally speaking, you load the powder, then the ball or conical bullet, (it should "shave" a little ring off, which means it is seated tightly, ) then you add a dolop of grease or Crisco on top of the ball in the cylinder to lube it and to seal it against any "crossfire."

I would suggest you send off for a Dixie Gun Works Catalogue, it will be the best $6 you can spend, if you are starting out...

Not ONLY for stuff you can buy, but they have a whole large section on loading and shooting just about anything blackpowder...

I also have a Traditions steel frame 1860, that I shoot 25 grains of FFFg behind a .452 ball or conical...

I have also experimented with "paper" self contained cartridges (they have the "recipe" in the Dixie Catalogue,) but I have found them to be not much faster!

www.dixiegunworks.com

Pistolenschutze · 11-04-2007, 11:15 PM

Polish, was it FFFg or FFg they used for the M4 main gun? I forget.

Seriously, Polish is right on the loads with a brass frame. I wouldn't go more than 15 grains FFFg, and probably not that much. There's no sense trying to make that revolver do what it was never designed to do.

RugerBob · 11-05-2007, 03:49 AM

Thanks for the input. I hope to have them (ups) by wednesday. I'll be at the range this weekend trying them out. Just off hand whats the difference between 3F and 2f powders.? I just bought a jug of 3F so I am just curious. thanks Bob

Little Rooster · 11-05-2007, 06:53 AM

It's the measurment of the size of grains fffg is finer than ffg which burns slightly slower. Some claim, you may find a little bit less felt recoil shooting ffg, but I honestly can't. Not with that small amount of a load.

When these new guns arrive make sure you clean them really good first, and fire some caps off, before loading.....Have fun with them

Oneida Steve · 11-05-2007, 07:47 AM

An alternative to grease over the ball is a pre-lubed patch under the ball, between the powder and the lead. I use Wonder Wads and I recommend them. Less messy than grease or Crisco.

Also, with a light load, the wad helps take up some of the space in the chamber and makes a tight seal when you seat the ball.

polishshooter · 11-05-2007, 08:09 PM

Generally speaking FFFg is for guns less than .50 cal, and FFg is for guns over .50 cal....most revolvers COULD be shot with FFg, but generally it's recommended to use FFFg in all of them....but what's funny is .50 cal is right on the cutoff, I know guys who use either, although we use the 3F in my son's .50...mainly because I always have it around for my revolvers and my .45 flintlock, and it works...

FYI, FFFFg is VERY fine, and is mainly used just as priming powder for Flintlock rifles, and Fg is a really course powder than is mainly used in smoothbore muskets, and small cannons.

Cannon powder is a whole different granulation and has different names....

Little Rooster · 11-05-2007, 08:16 PM

Polish, have you ever shot Skirmish Powder?

BobMcG · 11-12-2007, 07:11 PM

You've been given a lot of good advice.

I use 3f in my .36s and they work fine with the .375 balls. I too use the pre-lubed patches between the powder and ball.

I'm not telling you to do it but on another side of the coin here.... I've used 20gr of 3f in my brass frame .36 (I have one of each, brass and steel) for hundreds of rounds and have found it no worse for wear from what I can see.

RugerBob · 11-13-2007, 04:04 AM

thanks all for the responses. I went to the range sunday and the only regret I had was having only 100 rounds with me. I was suprised at the accuracy of the revolver. I was putting all 6 on the paper at 25 yards. Thats good for me , shooting onehanded.enjoy the day all, Bob

Little Rooster · 11-13-2007, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RugerBob

thanks all for the responses. I went to the range sunday and the only regret I had was having only 100 rounds with me. I was suprised at the accuracy of the revolver. I was putting all 6 on the paper at 25 yards. Thats good for me , shooting onehanded.enjoy the day all, Bob

Welcome to the Darkside

polishshooter · 11-13-2007, 08:32 AM

No. Rooster, I haven't tried Skirmish...I've only used Goex BP since I started shooting black powder ...not for any other reason than every time I buy MORE, that's all that's available...

But it works fine for me....

I am having trouble finding Black Powder more and more though, due to the new Federal Restrictions...

Fewer and fewer shops are carrying it...

Now for the revolvers and my son's cap lock I know I could go to substitutes, but I still need the Black powder for my flintlock...

Little Rooster · 11-13-2007, 09:12 AM

It's suppose to be cheaper. I was curious what others thought of it. It is suppose to be a lot cheaper also. However some claim dirtier and slower burn. I use mostly Goex and on occassions I buy some Schutzen <[it's cheaper]. I don't have problem yet finding it, but paying for it is beginning to be a chore. I buy it by the case to save a few bucks. Lead powder and primers have gone thru the roof this past year.

11-03-2007, 04:50 AM	#1
RugerBob V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 65	need advice..BP 1851 navy hi all, I have been shooting regular single action revolvers for a few years and enjoy it. also reload 45LC for revolvers and rifle. anyway, I just ordered 2 1851 BP navy revolvers from Taylor arms, I am new to black powder and don't know any one who shoots them where I shoot. So , any advice or input would be appriciated. They are 36 cal steel frame, octagon barrel.Thanks in advance all, Bob -->

11-04-2007, 10:25 PM	#2
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,863	Re: need advice..BP 1851 navy My brass frame 1851 (actually my son's...) uses .375 balls or conicals...the misnomer is that hey were ".36s," they are actually "38s," just like the ".44s" are actually ".45s..." We never shot much more than 15 grains FFFg Black Powder through ours, and usually kept it around 12, mainly because of the brass frame...with the steel frames you can go a little more. Generally speaking, you load the powder, then the ball or conical bullet, (it should "shave" a little ring off, which means it is seated tightly, ) then you add a dolop of grease or Crisco on top of the ball in the cylinder to lube it and to seal it against any "crossfire." I would suggest you send off for a Dixie Gun Works Catalogue, it will be the best $6 you can spend, if you are starting out... Not ONLY for stuff you can buy, but they have a whole large section on loading and shooting just about anything blackpowder... I also have a Traditions steel frame 1860, that I shoot 25 grains of FFFg behind a .452 ball or conical... I have also experimented with "paper" self contained cartridges (they have the "recipe" in the Dixie Catalogue,) but I have found them to be not much faster! www.dixiegunworks.com __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. Last edited by polishshooter; 11-04-2007 at 10:27 PM..

11-04-2007, 11:15 PM	#3
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Re: need advice..BP 1851 navy Polish, was it FFFg or FFg they used for the M4 main gun? I forget. Seriously, Polish is right on the loads with a brass frame. I wouldn't go more than 15 grains FFFg, and probably not that much. There's no sense trying to make that revolver do what it was never designed to do. __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)

11-05-2007, 03:49 AM	#4
RugerBob V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 65	Re: need advice..BP 1851 navy Thanks for the input. I hope to have them (ups) by wednesday. I'll be at the range this weekend trying them out. Just off hand whats the difference between 3F and 2f powders.? I just bought a jug of 3F so I am just curious. thanks Bob

11-05-2007, 06:53 AM	#5
Little Rooster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Old Dominion Posts: 564	Re: need advice..BP 1851 navy It's the measurment of the size of grains fffg is finer than ffg which burns slightly slower. Some claim, you may find a little bit less felt recoil shooting ffg, but I honestly can't. Not with that small amount of a load. When these new guns arrive make sure you clean them really good first, and fire some caps off, before loading.....Have fun with them __________________ "Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know Victory Nor Defeat" Teddy Roosevelt

11-05-2007, 07:47 AM	#6
Oneida Steve Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,028	Re: need advice..BP 1851 navy An alternative to grease over the ball is a pre-lubed patch under the ball, between the powder and the lead. I use Wonder Wads and I recommend them. Less messy than grease or Crisco. Also, with a light load, the wad helps take up some of the space in the chamber and makes a tight seal when you seat the ball.

11-05-2007, 08:09 PM	#7
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,863	Re: need advice..BP 1851 navy Generally speaking FFFg is for guns less than .50 cal, and FFg is for guns over .50 cal....most revolvers COULD be shot with FFg, but generally it's recommended to use FFFg in all of them....but what's funny is .50 cal is right on the cutoff, I know guys who use either, although we use the 3F in my son's .50...mainly because I always have it around for my revolvers and my .45 flintlock, and it works... FYI, FFFFg is VERY fine, and is mainly used just as priming powder for Flintlock rifles, and Fg is a really course powder than is mainly used in smoothbore muskets, and small cannons. Cannon powder is a whole different granulation and has different names.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

11-05-2007, 08:16 PM	#8
Little Rooster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Old Dominion Posts: 564	Re: need advice..BP 1851 navy Polish, have you ever shot Skirmish Powder? __________________ "Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know Victory Nor Defeat" Teddy Roosevelt

11-12-2007, 07:11 PM	#9
BobMcG Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Somewhere in the Twilight Zone. Contributor Posts: 1,119	Re: need advice..BP 1851 navy You've been given a lot of good advice. I use 3f in my .36s and they work fine with the .375 balls. I too use the pre-lubed patches between the powder and ball. I'm not telling you to do it but on another side of the coin here.... I've used 20gr of 3f in my brass frame .36 (I have one of each, brass and steel) for hundreds of rounds and have found it no worse for wear from what I can see.

11-13-2007, 04:04 AM	#10
RugerBob V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 65	Re: need advice..BP 1851 navy thanks all for the responses. I went to the range sunday and the only regret I had was having only 100 rounds with me. I was suprised at the accuracy of the revolver. I was putting all 6 on the paper at 25 yards. Thats good for me , shooting onehanded.enjoy the day all, Bob

11-13-2007, 08:32 AM	#12
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,863	Re: need advice..BP 1851 navy No. Rooster, I haven't tried Skirmish...I've only used Goex BP since I started shooting black powder ...not for any other reason than every time I buy MORE, that's all that's available... But it works fine for me.... I am having trouble finding Black Powder more and more though, due to the new Federal Restrictions... Fewer and fewer shops are carrying it... Now for the revolvers and my son's cap lock I know I could go to substitutes, but I still need the Black powder for my flintlock... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

11-13-2007, 09:12 AM	#13
Little Rooster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Old Dominion Posts: 564	Re: need advice..BP 1851 navy It's suppose to be cheaper. I was curious what others thought of it. It is suppose to be a lot cheaper also. However some claim dirtier and slower burn. I use mostly Goex and on occassions I buy some Schutzen <[it's cheaper]. I don't have problem yet finding it, but paying for it is beginning to be a chore. I buy it by the case to save a few bucks. Lead powder and primers have gone thru the roof this past year. __________________ "Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know Victory Nor Defeat" Teddy Roosevelt