What do you think about ethanol in your gas?

[300 H&H]

I guess I have been wanting to post about this for some time. But as a farmer who grows corn, I guess I must bow-out as I have a conflict of interest, as a corn grower. Personally I feel it is a short term solution, until we find something better. Also be aware of the bad press that may be putting a cloud on the industry, Being "bought" by big oil companies, as they are not a "player" in the ethanol industry.
OK, here are some facts about it. Ethanol from corn is a three steps forward, and one step back sort of conversion. It takes one part added energy to get two additional parts (ethanol) back. SO it is not an ideal thing, as it takes energy to produce. It is traditionally used in a 10% mix with gasoline, but that could be raised without modifications to engines to perhaps as much as 20%. Improvements in the technology have resulted in about 2.8 gal ethanol/bu. of corn are now being produced. But if ALL the corn grown were to be converted to ethanol it would only satisfy about 40% of our needs, and leave nothing for livestock feed, or food.
I would like to hear from the membership any thoughts they might have about this topic. Before anyone thinks that the farmer are going to make too much money, let me remind you of how many people are penciling my "bottom line" and our input prices are definately reflecting that with 20-25% increases in my input costs. NH3 (anhydros ammonia) is made from natural gas, and the price of the base material has not gone up nearly as much as NH3 has. Pricing based on what the market can bear, not just a fair return. Everbody wants a piece of the "pie!" It sure is going to be an interesting year here on the corn/soybean farm. Best reguards,Kirk

[Jay]

I think that the ethanol issue is just a method of diverting concerns from oil. They're trying to change dependency on oil to dependency on mother nature. If the Arabs get miffed, fuel prices go up...... if there's a bad crop year for corn production, ethanol prices go up. Fuel mileage isn't as good with ethanol, so we'll buy more to get what we used to get with oil. Competition for the corn will drive up prices on other goods as well, so any potential fuel savings will go to higher prices elsewhere.

I'm not sure what the best solution is, but I don't think ethanol is it.

[Pistolenschutze]

Actually, I much prefer ethanol in my glass, not my gas.

Jay, I think you have the right of it, as does 300. Ethanol is, at best, a temporary solution. I do think we should be looking far more actively at alternative sources of energy though, not so much from the environmental aspect, as from the simply fact that petroleum is a finite resourse that is diminishing and becoming progressively more expensive. I personally think there is great potential in solar energy for electrical generation, as well as in nuclear power generation.

[dcd_enterprises]

I am burning E-85, and I have no significant loss of fuel mileage. In the production of ethanol, there is no loss. The remaining corn solids are still being used for animal feed. There are several plants here in Iowa and in Wisconsin that are running a closed loop, they have a sizable herd of cattle in a confined space, and they are collecting the methane emissions from the cattle and using it to fire the corn to produce the ethanol, then feeding the remains of the corn to the cattle. ADM in Clinton has built a new plastics plant, and with the remains they are producing 100% biodegradable plastics.

300, don't hesitate to blow your own horn on this matter. I am rather unapologetic about the current corn price, in fact, it should be higher and keep going up. It is finally getting close to the point where a man can earn a living without a government crutch, and that is where we should be. That is the one area where the conservative movement and myself part ways, they want no support for farm subsidies, and until the market will support the farmer, stand alone, someone must, because we can't afford to go under, and the market of $2.00 a bushel a corn just didn't cut it. I hope it never comes back. Brazil has been producing its own petroleum needs via ethanol from sugar cane for more than 25 years now. hey are essentially foreign oil free. This is not a temporary solution if we can just convince the rest of the country of that fact. This doesn't have to be made of just corn. The other side of this coin that very few four wheeler drivers think of is Bio-Diesel. This is a product that is greatly beneficial in the Heavy truck industry. Better mileage, and since the introduction of Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel, (ULSD) Bio offers much better lubricity leading to greater engine life. This ULSD is eating the guts out of our engines, it is like trying to digest sand.


Bring on the ethanol. The more the better. Bring on the Biodiesel. Heck, I'm heating my house with corn, and saving about $400 a year over LP. That stove has already paid for itself.

[Pistolenschutze]

DCD, the ethanol idea might well work, if properly developed, as part of an overall alternative energy source package. The problem is, not enough money is being allocated for proper development, and it won't be so long as the oil companies can make obscene profits from petroleum. I agree, were we truly to move toward ethanol, build engines that run well on it--a thing we could do quite easily--, make it readily available, and simultaneously begin development of other sources as well, we could tell the Arabs to take their oil and shove it.

[dcd_enterprises]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

...if properly developed, as part of an overall alternative energy source package. The problem is, not enough money is being allocated for proper development...make it readily available, and simultaneously begin development of other sources as well, we could tell the Arabs to take their oil and shove it.

I don't know about it not being properly developed... Take a trip out here to the midwest. There are ethanol production plants being built everywhere they can get a rail spur. This area, other than farming, has been economically depressed ever since the farm crisis in the early 80's. We've just never really recovered. There is an industrial boom going on around here that this area hasn't seen in 40 years, and all of this infrastructure that is being invested in and built is going to be here a while. There isn't going to be this kind of a capital infusion without a return, a significant return, on investment.


Aged railroad lines, lines that the local population thought had long since been abandoned are seeing new life, because somewhere down that line, someone is building an ethanol plant, and they're going to have to have corn delivered, and product shipped out. We here in Iowa have been using ethanol for 20 years in our cars. It is a proven technology, we're just glad that someone has let the secret out.

The Iowa Farm Bureau has been instrumental in raising public awareness on the possibilities and production of biofuels. Check out http://www.iowafarmbureau.com
if you want any more information on them.

[300 H&H]

Thanks for your post dcd. The face of Iowa is being changed as we speak. I wonder how much money is being put into ethanol plants as a sum total. It has to be staggering. And those investing are in it for the long haul, and believe it will be at leaste a part of our energy solution. I really feel that in the urban area's an awfull lot of fuel simply is wasted idling in traffic,or waiting for a signal light to change. I hope a sucessfull electric car is developed for their needs. Wind generation would generate the electricity for that. And yes I have been farming for 20+ years and it really feeels good to be making some money for a change. Lets hope the prices stay up, for I fear if they do not we will be in deep **** in the future, due to the huge increases in our production costs. I guess I have been at this long enough to be sckeptical of our situation as farmers here. I know that with companies like ADM and Dreyfus and the likes, they will be watching our bottom line better than we do.... Know what I mean? So I am a little carefull not to exibit "irrational exuberence " at this time, as I am a little afraid that the public opinion is being swayed away from any "substitute" But you cannot argue with money they say and there is sure ALOT of it being sunk into the western 1/3 of Iowa in ethanol plants. Best reguards Kirk

[dcd_enterprises]

OK, This is the most current information I could find. This is up to date as of the 30th of last month. This is the list of the current ethanol producing capacity of the country. As you scroll through this, you'll note that most of the production is with the use of corn, but there are companies out there currently making product out of Cheese Whey, Potato waste, and waste beer, to name a few. The latter being in Golden, CO--Pistolenschutze must not be doing his part, because there is beer in CO being wasted, enough that they are making 3 million gallons of ethanol a year out of it. Please note that all of the numbers in this list are Millions of Gallons per year, and I need to credit the Renewable Fuels Association (RFA) (http://www.ethanolrfa.org/industry/locations/) for this list.

Ethanol BioRefinery Locations

U.S. FUEL ETHANOL Industry biorefineries and Production CAPACITY

Company Location Feedstock Current Capacity(mgy) Und. Const./Expnsn.

Abengoa Bioenergy Corp., York, NE Corn/milo 55
Colwich, KS 25
Portales, NM 30
Ravenna, NE 88

Aberdeen Energy* Mina, SD Corn 100

Absolute Energy, LLC* St. Ansgar, IA Corn 100

ACE Ethanol, LLC Stanley, WI Corn 41

Adkins Energy, LLC* Lena, IL Corn 40

Advanced Bioenergy Fairmont, NE Corn 100

AGP* Hastings, NE Corn 52

Agri-Energy, LLC* Luverne, MN Corn 21

Al-Corn Clean Fuel* Claremont, MN Corn 35 15

Amaizing Energy, LLC* Denison, IA Corn 40

Archer Daniels Midland Decatur, IL Corn 1,070 550
Cedar Rapids, IA Corn
Clinton, IA Corn
Columbus, NE Corn
Marshall, MN Corn
Peoria, IL Corn
Wallhalla, ND Corn/barley

Arkalon Energy, LLC Liberal, KS Corn 110

Aventine Renewable Energy, LLC Pekin, IL Corn 207 226
Aurora, NE Corn
Mt. Vernon, IN Corn

Badger State Ethanol, LLC* Monroe, WI Corn 48

Big River Resources, LLC* West Burlington, IA Corn 52
BioFuel Energy - Pioneer Trail Energy, LLC
Wood River, NE Corn 115

BioFuel Energy - Buffal Lake Energy, LLC
Fairmont, MN Corn 115

Blue Flint Ethanol Underwood, ND Corn 50

Bonanza Energy, LLC Garden City, KS Corn/milo 55

Bushmills Ethanol, Inc.* Atwater, MN Corn 40

Cardinal Ethanol Harrisville, IN Corn 100

Cargill, Inc. Blair, NE Corn 85
Eddyville, IA Corn 35

Cascade Grain Clatskanie, OR Corn 108

CassCo Amaizing Energy, LLC
Atlantic, IA Corn 110

Castle Rock Renewable Fuels, LLC
Necedah, WI Corn 50

Celunol Jennings, LA Sugar cane 1.5
bagasse

Center Ethanol Company Sauget, IL Corn 54

Central Indiana Ethanol, LLC Marion, IN Corn 40

Central Illinois Energy, LLC Canton, IL Corn 37

Central MN Ethanol Coop* Little Falls, MN Corn 21.5

Chief Ethanol Hastings, NE Corn 62

Chippewa Valley Ethanol Co.* Benson, MN Corn 45

Cilion Ethanol Keyes, CA Corn 50

Commonwealth Agri-Energy, LLC*
Hopkinsville, KY Corn 33

Corn, LP* Goldfield, IA Corn 50

Cornhusker Energy Lexington, LLC
Lexington, NE Corn 40

Corn Plus, LLP* Winnebago, MN Corn 44

Coshoctan Ethanol, OH Coshoctan, OH Corn 60

Dakota Ethanol, LLC* Wentworth, SD Corn 50

DENCO, LLC Morris, MN Corn 21.5

E Energy Adams, LLC Adams, NE Corn 50

E3 Biofuels Mead, NE Corn 24

E Caruso (Goodland Energy Center)
Goodland, KS Corn 20

East Kansas Agri-Energy, LLC*
Garnett, KS Corn 35

Elkhorn Valley Ethanol, LLC Norfolk, NE Corn 40

ESE Alcohol Inc. Leoti, KS Seed corn 1.5

Ethanol Grain Processors, LLC
Obion, TN Corn 100

First United Ethanol, LLC (FUEL)
Mitchell Co., GA Corn 100

Front Range Energy, LLC Windsor, CO Corn 40

Gateway Ethanol Pratt, KS Corn 55

Glacial Lakes Energy, LLC* Watertown, SD Corn 50 50

Global Ethanol/Midwest Grain Processors
Lakota, IA Corn 95
Riga, MI Corn 57

Golden Cheese Company of California*
Corona, CA Cheese whey 5

Golden Grain Energy, LLC* Mason City, IA Corn 110 50

Golden Triangle Energy, LLC* Craig, MO Corn 20

Grand River Distribution Cambria, WI Corn 40

Grain Processing Corp. Muscatine, IA Corn 20

Granite Falls Energy, LLC* Granite Falls, MN Corn 52

Greater Ohio Ethanol, LLC Lima, OH Corn 54

Green Plains Renewable Energy
Shenandoah, IA Corn 50
Superior, IA Corn 50

Hawkeye Renewables, LLC Iowa Falls, IA Corn 105
Fairbank, IA Corn 115
Menlo, IA Corn 100
Shell Rock, IA Corn 110

Heartland Corn Products* Winthrop, MN Corn 100

Heartland Grain Fuels, LP*Aberdeen, SD Corn 9
Huron, SD Corn 12 18

Heron Lake BioEnergy, LLC Heron Lake, MN Corn 50

Holt County Ethanol O'Neill, NE Corn 100

Husker Ag, LLC* Plainview, NE Corn 26.5

Idaho Ethanol Processing Caldwell, ID Potato Waste 4

Illinois River Energy, LLC Rochelle, IL Corn 50

Indiana Bio-Energy Bluffton, IN Corn 101

Iroquois Bio-Energy Company, LLC
Rensselaer, IN Corn 40

KAAPA Ethanol, LLC* Minden, NE Corn 40

Kansas Ethanol, LLC Lyons, KS Corn 55

Land O' Lakes* Melrose, MN Cheese whey 2.6

Levelland/Hockley County Ethanol, LLC
Levelland, TX Corn 40

Lifeline Foods, LLC St. Joseph, MO Corn 40

Lincolnland Agri-Energy, LLC*
Palestine, IL Corn 48

Lincolnway Energy, LLC* Nevada, IA Corn 50

Little Sioux Corn Processors, LP*
Marcus, IA Corn 52

Marquis Energy, LLC Hennepin, IL Corn 100

Marysville Ethanol, LLC Marysville, MI Corn 50

Merrick & Company Golden, CO Waste beer 3

MGP Ingredients, Inc. Pekin, IL Corn/wheat starch
78
Atchison, KS

Mid America Agri Products/Wheatland
Madrid, NE Corn 44

Mid-Missouri Energy, Inc.* Malta Bend, MO Corn 45

Midwest Renewable Energy, LLC
Sutherland, NE Corn 25

Millennium Ethanol Marion, SD Corn 100

Minnesota Energy* Buffalo Lake, MN Corn 18

NEDAK Ethanol Atkinson, NE Corn 44

New Energy Corp. South Bend, IN Corn 102

North Country Ethanol, LLC* Rosholt, SD Corn 20

Northeast Biofuels Volney, NY Corn 114

Northwest Renewable, LLC Longview, WA Corn 55

Otter Tail Ag Enterprises Fergus Falls, MN Corn 57.5

Pacific Ethanol Madera, CA Corn 35
Boardman, OR Corn 35
Burley, ID Corn 50
Stockton, CA Corn 50
Imperial, CA Corn 50

Panda Ethanol Hereford, TX Corn/milo 115

Parallel Products Louisville, KY Beverage waste 5.4
R. Cucamonga, CA

Patriot Renewable Fuels, LLC
Annawan, IL Corn 100

Penford Products Cedar Rapids, IA Corn 45

Permeate Refining Hopkinton, IA Sugars & starches
1.5

Phoenix Biofuels Goshen, CA Corn 25

Pinal Energy, LLC Maricopa, AZ Corn 55

Pine Lake Corn Processors, LLC*
Steamboat Rock, IA Corn 20

Plainview BioEnergy, LLC
Plainview, TX Corn 100

Platinum Ethanol, LLC* Arthur, IA Corn 110

Plymouth Ethanol, LLC* Merrill, IA Corn 50

POET Sioux Falls, SD 1,110 375
Alexandria, IN Corn #
Ashton, IA Corn
Big Stone, SD Corn
Bingham Lake, MN Corn
Caro, MI Corn
Chancellor, SD Corn
Coon Rapids, IA Corn
Corning, IA Corn
Emmetsburg, IA Corn
Fostoria, OH Corn #
Glenville, MN Corn
Gowrie, IA Corn
Groton, SD Corn
Hanlontown, IA Corn
Hudson, SD Corn
Jewell, IA Corn
Laddonia, MO Corn
Lake Crystal, MN Corn
Leipsic, OH Corn #
Macon, MO Corn
Marion, OH Corn #
Mitchell, SD Corn
North Manchester, IN Corn #
Portland, IN Corn
Preston, MN Corn
Scotland, SD Corn

Prairie Horizon Agri-Energy, LLC
Phillipsburg, KS Corn 40

Quad-County Corn Processors*
Galva, IA Corn 27

Red Trail Energy, LLC Richardton, ND Corn 50

Redfield Energy, LLC * Redfield, SD Corn 50

Reeve Agri-Energy Garden City, KS Corn/milo 12

Renew Energy Jefferson Junction, WI Corn 130

Siouxland Energy & Livestock Coop*
Sioux Center, IA Corn 25 35

Siouxland Ethanol, LLC Jackson, NE Corn 50

Southwest Iowa Renewable Energy, LLC *
Council Bluffs, IA Corn 110

Sterling Ethanol, LLC Sterling, CO Corn 42

Tate & Lyle Loudon, TN Corn 67 38
Ft. Dodge, IA Corn 105

The Andersons Albion Ethanol LLC
Albion, MI Corn 55

The Andersons Clymers Ethanol, LLC
Clymers, IN Corn 110

The Andersons Marathon Ethanol, LLC
Greenville, OH Corn 110

Tharaldson Ethanol Casselton, ND Corn 110

Trenton Agri Products, LLC Trenton, NE Corn 40

United Ethanol Milton, WI Corn 52

United WI Grain Producers, LLC*
Friesland, WI Corn 49

US BioEnergy Corp. Albert City, IA Corn 300 400
Woodbury, MI Corn
Hankinson, ND Corn #
Central City , NE Corn #
Ord, NE Corn
Dyersville, IA Corn #
Janesville, MN Corn #
Marion, SD Corn

U.S. Energy Partners, LLC (White Energy)
Russell, KS Milo/wheat starch
48

Utica Energy, LLC Oshkosh, WI Corn 48

VeraSun Energy Corporation Aurora, SD Corn 560 330
Albion, NE Corn
Charles City, IA Corn
Linden, IN Corn
Welcome, MN Corn #
Hartely, IA Corn #
Bloomingburg, OH Corn #

Western New York Energy, LLC Shelby, NY Corn 50

Western Plains Energy, LLC* Campus, KS Corn 45

Western Wisconsin Renewable Energy, LLC*
Boyceville, WI Corn 40

White Energy Hereford, TX Corn/Milo 100

Wind Gap Farms Baconton, GA Brewery waste 0.4

Renova Energy Torrington, WY Corn 5
Hyaburn, ID Corn 20

Xethanol BioFuels, LLC Blairstown, IA Corn 5 35

Yuma Ethanol Yuma, CO Corn 40

Total Current Capacity at
131 ethanol biorefineries 7,022,900,000 Gallons/Year
Total Under Construction (72)/Expansions (10) 6,451,900,000 Gallons/Year
Total Capacity
13,474,800,000 Gallons/Year

* locally-owned

# plant under construction
Updated: October 30, 2007

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by dcd_enterprises

Pistolenschutze must not be doing his part, because there is beer in CO being wasted, enough that they are making 3 million gallons of ethanol a year out of it.

DCD, I make it a rule never, ever, to drink Colorado Kool Aid or Buttwiper!!! Far as I am concerned, they can turn the whole production into ethanol!!! Now, were we talking about good German beer, I would be horrified!

[RMT]

I guess I don't know enough about it to have much of an opinion, but anything that lessens our need for oil from the middle east I am for...

Ethonal may be a legitimate option for the future...

[cohoskip]

They already have the technology for hydrogen fuel cells. Putting it into general use is the big problem.

[Bindernut]

I'm all for any renewable resource fuel. Like 300H&H said in the initial post, I too think that it's currently a dance around the big issue of foreign oil dependency...but if and/or when it's development evolves a bit more seriously it can be a viable motor fuel. Take a look at the ethanol industry in Brazil for example...they use more than corn for ethanol production and have a better production efficiency than we have at the moment. We can achieve that here in the US too.

I run E10 and E20 whenever possible in all my vehicles, and have a couple carbed engines that I've specifically tuned to run E85...also have an EFI 90 Nissan pickup that works just fine on E85 at a slight loss of mileage/power. In my area, E85 is currently about $0.30-0.40/gal cheaper than straight gas or E10 and even figuring in the mileage loss it's still cheaper. Too bad more stations aren't carrying E85. Most folks think that you must have a flex-fuel vehicle to run E85, but that's not completely true...many newer vehicles will run just fine on it, but there are some that don't digest it very well. All depends on how flexible the engine control computer is in it's tuning curve.

[dcd_enterprises]

Originally Posted by Bindernut

...have a couple carbed engines that I've specifically tuned to run E85...also have an EFI 90 Nissan pickup that works just fine on E85 at a slight loss of mileage/power. In my area, E85 is currently about $0.30-0.40/gal cheaper than straight gas or E10 and even figuring in the mileage loss it's still cheaper. Too bad more stations aren't carrying E85. Most folks think that you must have a flex-fuel vehicle to run E85, but that's not completely true...many newer vehicles will run just fine on it, but there are some that don't digest it very well. All depends on how flexible the engine control computer is in it's tuning curve.

Bindernut, I have a couple older vehicles I would be interested in running on E-85. Hadn't even considered the idea that I could. any information you could pass along to perpetuate this would be greatly appreciated. danield@fbcom.net

[Bindernut]

Email on it's way dcd.

[berto64]

As stated above, there are many ag products that ethanol can be derived from beside corn.

In my corner of Idaho corn is a huge feed crop along with sugar beets for sugar.

Local farmers have told me the beets has many times more fuel than what can be derived from corn.

But nobody up here is doing anything with corn or sugar beets. It's a little discouraging to say the least.

[obxned]

Not a good thing. It causes the price of eggs, meat, and milk to rise, it takes more than a gallon of oil to produce a gallon of alcohol, and it gives less mpg than gas.

If we are going make alcohol out of corn, let’s age it in oak and use it as intended.

[Texman]

HATE IT,, let's see why, it cost more and the cars get worst mileage.. so what is the benefit? my wife's hybrid mileage drops about 9 mpg to around 40 mpg with the dammed stuff,, my Chrysler drops about 5 , but it is set up for it, having come from California...
I go out of my way to NOT buy it..

[Pistolenschutze]

Hmmm, I wonder if they've ever considered making fuels down in Texas? Some of the chili and pepper sauces they make down there, used as fuel, would probably be similar to attaching a RATO pack to the vehicle.

[300 H&H]

Texman,
I could use the word hate to to describe the fact that a few of your fellow statesmen would rather fight a war in a far away place so thet they......Keep making more profits...... and keep us from making our own alternatives. By the way ethanol will not give you better milage, no one ever made that claim. It's like comparing apples and oranges.You can not compare the two as there heat contents are different. It will cost you maybe at most 10-15% in milage but right now it is over a dollar a gallon cheaper (E85) than the straight pump gas. I don't think you have to be a mathamatician to work that one out. And you even admit you only loose 5 miles per gallon in a car properly set up for E85. I guess I'll be going out of my way to not buy gas that came from Texas crude....(your almost out anyway)
AS far as food prices, They, end user of corn has benifitted from goverment subsidized below cost of production corn for 20 years. And you know what, they have gotten fat and happy on that corn. NOW it looks like ther profit margins are at risk, and the food industry would like you to believe that the price of corn is the reason the prices have gone up. That is alot of bunk.... the tiny amount of corn for instance in a box of corn flakes is less than 10 cents. now it is less than 20 cents and the box of flakes went up 75 cents. Who made the money? Who's party is this? General mills just upped their profit margin and laid the blame on ethanol. Lets not forget Tyson foods and Smithfield foods. These two privately owned giants were born and bred on $2.00 corn and they want nothing to do with high grain prices as they themselvs own livestock and higher corn prices affects them directly. Now petroleum interests are refusing to blend ethanol with gasoline as they own the terminals where it is mixed with gasoline. Both big oil and the big livestock integrators have joined forces to "wreck the ethanol train" as it shakes things up and they end up with less market share and lower margins. And they have the money to buy the press and the members of congress's votes "to save the nation" and stop this ethanol folly right now. Kill it before it grows. You can bad mouth ethanol all you want or you can understand that Texas and the rest of our great land is almost out of crude oil, and learn with an open mind for your self and give ethanol a shot. Best reguards Kirk

[Bindernut]

You're right on the money Kirk. The large meat packers and the oil industry are crying foul the loudest about high corn prices "caused" by the increased demand for ethanol corn. Grain prices are higher, but not proportionally to inflation over the years. The producer is still getting the short end of the stick, although they are finally getting a bit more for the corn they're raising. The middleman is the one making most of that profit...just like the cattle industry. All the more reason to look at other, more efficient, fodder for the E plants...Brazil is already doing it, we can too.

Now, I do know that in some parts of the country (east and west coast in particular) E85 is actually higher priced than in the midwest. With that being the case, it's okay to not run it from an economic standpoint. But even at 0.30/gal cheaper than straight gas that I pay in ND/SD, I feel it's a good thing to support a cleaner burning, homegrown, and renewable resource. Increased use will create higher demand, higher demand will lead to further developing the production efficiency, better efficiency will lead to cheaper production costs and a larger more widespread supply. The technology is still evolving...give it time to grow.
It's in the same boat as wind energy. Right now, wind power is still higher priced to produce than electricity from fossil fuels but the energy supply is basically free. We just need to further develop the means of extracting it and getting it out to the public.

No, I'm not "one of them" hippie tree-huggers, but I do believe that we can live a little more friendly to our planet. Ethanol, wind power, etc may only be temporary steps along that path, but I think it's a good road to at least start looking down. The first steps are always the hardest.

[rosierita]

i'm all for it, as long as it puts more $$ in the farmer's pocket. i know all about that $2 corn!

but, i'll also say, shut all the tree huggers up & open anwar.

[dcd_enterprises]

Originally Posted by 300 H&H

Texman,
I could use the word hate to to describe the fact that a few of your fellow statesmen would rather fight a war in a far away place so thet they......Keep making more profits...... and keep us from making our own alternatives. By the way ethanol will not give you better milage, no one ever made that claim. It's like comparing apples and oranges.You can not compare the two as there heat contents are different. It will cost you maybe at most 10-15% in milage but right now it is over a dollar a gallon cheaper (E85) than the straight pump gas. I don't think you have to be a mathamatician to work that one out. And you even admit you only loose 5 miles per gallon in a car properly set up for E85. I guess I'll be going out of my way to not buy gas that came from Texas crude....(your almost out anyway)
AS far as food prices, They, end user of corn has benifitted from goverment subsidized below cost of production corn for 20 years. And you know what, they have gotten fat and happy on that corn. NOW it looks like ther profit margins are at risk, and the food industry would like you to believe that the price of corn is the reason the prices have gone up. That is alot of bunk.... the tiny amount of corn for instance in a box of corn flakes is less than 10 cents. now it is less than 20 cents and the box of flakes went up 75 cents. Who made the money? Who's party is this? General mills just upped their profit margin and laid the blame on ethanol. Lets not forget Tyson foods and Smithfield foods. These two privately owned giants were born and bred on $2.00 corn and they want nothing to do with high grain prices as they themselvs own livestock and higher corn prices affects them directly. Now petroleum interests are refusing to blend ethanol with gasoline as they own the terminals where it is mixed with gasoline. Both big oil and the big livestock integrators have joined forces to "wreck the ethanol train" as it shakes things up and they end up with less market share and lower margins. And they have the money to buy the press and the members of congress's votes "to save the nation" and stop this ethanol folly right now. Kill it before it grows. You can bad mouth ethanol all you want or you can understand that Texas and the rest of our great land is almost out of crude oil, and learn with an open mind for your self and give ethanol a shot. Best reguards Kirk

HERE HERE!

[dcd_enterprises]

DON'T TELL ME IT CAN'T BE SUSTAINED, BRAZIL HAS BEEN DOING IT ON THEIR OWN FOR 25 YEARS

[dcd_enterprises]

Courtesy of the Iowa Farm Bureau Spokesman, 07 Nov, 2007, Page 11:

U.S. Ethanol production capacity has risen 30 percent since 01 Jan to more than 7 Billion gallons per year (GPY) Reuters news service reported last week.
The building boom in U.S. Distilleries could lead to ethanol oversupply as production capacity begins to outpace demand, anylists say.
In recent weeks, producers say they have postponed plans to build or expand three biorefineries including VeraSun's 110 Million GPY Reynolds, IN plant, Glacial Lakes Energy's plant in Meckling, SD; and Chippewa Valley Ethanol Co.'s 40 Mollion GPY expansion of it's biorefinery in Benson, MN.
Still, production capacity has risen over the past two weeks to more than 7.02 Billion GPY, from 6.9 Billion GPY.
The United States boasts 131 ethanol distilleries, with 72 plants under construction and 10 undergoing expansion. If all the new plants and expansions come online total US capacity will be nearly 13.5 billion GPY, according to the Renewable Fuels Association.

[Gabob]

Ethanol can be made from any plant product that can be fermented.
Now if we could just get them interested in fermenting kudzu we would have it made for six months out of the year down South. Dang stuff grows a foot a day in the summer