.32 ACP effectiveness

[Pistolenschutze]

As I'm certain all of you know, the .32 ACP (7.65x17mm) was designed by John Moses Browning and first introduced as a pistol cartridge in 1899 by Fabrique Nationale (FN). In other words, it's been around for a very long time and served in many conflicts and as a police weapon, predominately in Europe. In the U.S. it has long been a popular round for so-called "pocket pistols" used in concealed carry situations.

Now, let me start out by saying that I realize the .32 falls into the "marginal" category when it comes to stopping power. No argument there. I would, however, like to see a little discussion on just how "marginal" it really is. Assume for the sake of the discussion that the pistol is loaded with modern, well-made, hollow-point ammunition like the Speer Gold Dot, not hardball. How much reliance would you folks put on this cartridge as a self-defense firearm load, assuming good shot placement?

I own one pistol in .32, a Beretta Tomcat, that I will sometimes carry if really deep concealment is needed. How many of you also use a pistol in this caliber occasionally?

[AngelDeville]

If I run across a .32 Seecamp I will certainly be carrying one.

Now I mostly carry 148gr, 850 fps wadcutters in my .38, and 95 gr gold dots in my .380.

bigger isn't better....

[scudrunner]

My wife has a Kel-Tec in .32.

She is real comfortable with it and a pretty good shot actually. I think a lot of times that out weighs "BIGGER" a few well placed shots of Fed. Hydro-shock or a Golden Saber or 2 will change the mind of just about any goblin.

I carry a Kel-Tec P3 in .380, that's just on step up from a .32.

I bet I can get a goblin off me with that without much problem at all.

That my .02 worth at any rate.

[delta13soultaker]

Don't wait on an overpriced Seecamp when you can get an NAA Guardian anytime for a good price. The Guardian is an upgraded Seecamp. It actually has sights. Also, instead of one of the European style heel mag releases on the Seecamp, the Guardian has a grip mag release like a larger pistol.

As far as reliance on the effectiveness of the .32 ACP...I remember reading that a .32 ACP JHP is on par with a .22 Mag JHP from a 3" barrel. So for a no bulls**t up-close defense tool it is certainly nothing to laugh about.

I think I also heard that 2 rounds of .32 ACP fired by an assassin (8 rounds fired but 2 hit...both were lethal; 1 kill each) started a world war

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

I think I also heard that 2 rounds of .32 ACP fired by an assassin (8 rounds fired but 2 hit...both were lethal; 1 kill each) started a world war

Quite true, Delta. Gavrilo Prinzip used a .32 caliber revolver to kill Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife Sophie at Sarajevo, Bosnia in August, 1914, the precipitating event--the lighting of the fuse, as it were--that led to World War I.

It is also true the Adolph Hitler shot himself in the head with a .32 ACP after biting down on a cyanide capsule in April 1945. I guess he wanted to make sure he did the job right!

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

Quite true, Delta. Gavrilo Prinzip used a .32 caliber revolver to kill Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife Sophie at Sarajevo, Bosnia in August, 1914, the precipitating event--the lighting of the fuse, as it were--that led to World War I.

It is also true the Adolph Hitler shot himself in the head with a .32 ACP after biting down on a cyanide capsule in April 1945. I guess he wanted to make sure he did the job right!

Was it a revolver? Small detail but I'd been thinking it was a 1903 Browning....I mean Colt.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

Was it a revolver? Small detail but I'd been thinking it was a 1903 Browning....I mean Colt.

All the accounts I have read indicate a revolver was used, Delta, a rather old one in fact. I'm uncertain of the precise cartridge, but it seems likely it was one of the .32s commonly in use in Eastern Europe at the time.

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

All the accounts I have read indicate a revolver was used, Delta, a rather old one in fact. I'm uncertain of the precise cartridge, but it seems likely it was one of the .32s commonly in use in Eastern Europe at the time.

Either way, not too shabby for what we call a bellygun...sparking "The War To End All Wars" I mean.

[a/c guy]

Its better than a rock. I've got a Walther PPK .32 take it with me everyday.

[tireman]

i also have a beretta tomcat and carry it everywhere-----one of the best small pistols ive ever had--have a ppk-s, but dont want it to get holstered up!!!!!!!

[Bill DeShivs]

It was a 1900 Browning, made by FN.
Bill

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

It was a 1900 Browning, made by FN.
Bill

It may well have been, Bill. I tried to find some historical verification, but was unsuccessful. It is certainly true that the most common .32s of that period were Browning's design and the .32 S&W.

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

It may well have been, Bill. I tried to find some historical verification, but was unsuccessful. It is certainly true that the most common .32s of that period were Browning's design and the .32 S&W.

After a short search I see some listing the Browning 1900, Colt 1903, and 1910. An Austrian report mentioned Browning revolvers...which I never heard of....but I know Bowning was such a common term over there that "Browning" was often used to refer to any pistol.

"On the 27th of May, 1914, Ciganovic handed over to Princip, Cabrinovic and Grabez, as their confessions agree in stating, six bombs, four Browning revolvers and a sufficient quantity of ammunition as well as a glass tube of cyanide of potassium with which to poison themselves after the accomplishment of the deed in order that the secret might be kept. Moreover, Ciganovic gave them some money."

[Pistolenschutze]

Yup, all the articles I've read over the years mention that the weapon was a revolver, but it's certainly possible it was an auto. Auto pistols were fairly new in 1914 and the word "revolver" had become more or less synonymous with a handgun of any kind.

Now, as for the .32 . . . maybe the Delta troopers should switch to that caliber. I mean, after all, you could carry more rounds and the recoil would be much less.

[Bill DeShivs]

Too tired to look it up, but I'm sure I have seen a picture of the gun, a 1900 Browning .32.

[graehaven]

I'll take my Kel-Tec P32 over the Guardian. It's half the weight, and has half the trigger pull. I can also carry an extra round. It's accurate and easier to conceal too. Oh, and the price......can't beat it.

Plus, if I put a .32 JHP in your brain case, I think you're done. Game over.

[Altrisk]

I have an Astra .25 acp Firecat that I carry sometimes only because its "better than nothing". What performance can I expect when using this gun with FMJ ammo on a perp?

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

Now, as for the .32 . . . maybe the Delta troopers should switch to that caliber. I mean, after all, you could carry more rounds and the recoil would be much less.

Ya want an organization of hardheaded 'ol country boys to switch to a French police bullet? I see a squadron handing over all their sidearms to jump on that offer....even the original Springer recievers made in the US Armory way back when. But really who says they have never had .32 acp for surveillance taskings? (If you don't want an opponent to know who you are...you carry the same weapons as him )

Originally Posted by graehaven

Plus, if I put a .32 JHP in your brain case, I think you're done. Game over.

That's ignoring the fact that .32 ACP JHP are very likely to not penetrate a man's skull

[graehaven]

That's ignoring the fact that .32 ACP JHP are very likely to not penetrate a man's skull[/QUOTE]


That very well may be, but a .32 in hand is better than both hands in the air.

Most of the time, I carry my 9 mm anyway, but there are times, when only the .32 will do.

It's nice to have so many options. I find I want more though.

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by graehaven

That's ignoring the fact that .32 ACP JHP are very likely to not penetrate a man's skull

That very well may be, but a .32 in hand is better than both hands in the air.

Most of the time, I carry my 9 mm anyway, but there are times, when only the .32 will do.

It's nice to have so many options. I find I want more though.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree. I'd carry my 1911 everywhere but many times it's just too much...so I carry a ppk/s.

I actually been looking at derringers...a small 2 shot .45 acp I'm thinking.

[Old Timer]

First off, yes, the .32 ACP is marginal, the bottom of the list of self-defense cartriges, but I really didn't know it wouldn't penetrate the human skull. I must remember that an interpose my head between me and any so armed assailant.
I have both an older AMT .380 and a Kel-Tec .32 ACP. When I wander out dressed in summer pants and an inside the pants shirt or knit shirt too short or flimsy to cover my belt holster I often carry the .32 in a pocket holster. No, I don't feel adequately armed, but loaded with Glaser Safety slugs I feel safe under normal, low-threat conditions. The wee AMT is just to heavy for comfortable carry, weighing more than my Taurus titanium .357.
If I didn't have Glasers this is one time I might consider a mixed load of solids and JHPs. Tests have shown that the wound cavity from a solid equals or exceeds that from a JHP, and the bullet penetrates significantly deeper, perhaps capable of disrupting some vital organs. The JHPs may deliver greater stopping power, but they don't penetrate. This might not be enough and temporary at that. This also a gun/caliber combination with which I would not hesitate to fire multiple shots, being careful to avoid the head.
I do not for one minute believe the statistics connected to the Winchester Silver Tips and Seecamp pistols. An OSS of mid-70% is too much, particularly when other .32 ACP JHPs produced barely 2/3s that. The energy just isn't there. I think you could reasonably expect an OSS of about 50% - 60%. Wish I had Evan Marshal's book, but somebody "borrowed" it. Time I got a new, updated one anyway.
My problem with the new generation of Kel-Tec and probably Ruger .32 ACPs is fit, not power. My hands, though not exceptionally big, find it difficult to fist a P-32. My thumb gets in the way of my tirgger finger. Fairbain was right, you can make a gun that is too small and too light. My 17 oz .357 is actually a +P .38 SP. My 16 oz P-11 is controlable, but it does bounce. You do have to hit them first.
Example: Two vice cops bust up parking lot drug deal. War breaks out. Over 40 shots fired (until the cops ran out of ammo and had to withdraw to wait for back-up) and nobody got a scratch. You need to see your front sight, you have to control your trigger pull, and it helps if you have a gun and load that will let this happen. If gang bangers could shoot they would have exterminated each other (and the police) years ago. Guns can get too small and light for their caliber.

Old Timer

[Deathbunny]

"Effectiveness" is a tough word. We (us law-abiding gun-owners) are always talking about a "defensive" handgun. Well, I'm gonna step out of character a moment and point out that a .32 will definately kill someone. The Isrealis had no trouble capping targets at close (3-5 yds) range with .22 pistols. So, if you want to know, "Can I kill someone with my .32?" the answer is "yes". However, if the question is "Can I win a gunfight with my .32?" you might get a different answer.
In the end, I follow rule #1: When in a gunfight, HAVE A GUN.
A .32 may not be a .45, but it sure beats a sharp stick.

[LurpyGeek]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

It is also true the Adolph Hitler shot himself in the head with a .32 ACP after biting down on a cyanide capsule in April 1945. I guess he wanted to make sure he did the job right!

I think you answered your own question, Pistol.

A .32 is a viable self defense round as long as the perpetrator swallows cyanide before being shot.

[Bill DeShivs]

It's interesting that most people view carry guns from a law enforcement standpoint.
Cops should carry an effective SERVICE CALIBER weapon. Civilians need not adhere to the same criteria.
If everyone carried a .25 acp, the world would be a better place, because no one wants to get shot.
BTW- no caliber will guarantee skull penetration, but ALL will penetrate a skull with the proper shot placement. Glancing impacts with almost any caliber will not penetrate a skull.

[Kestral]

Nearly all the sidearms issued to the German Military in ww2 was in 32acp (7.65mm),so they must of thought it was of military use.the 380acp (9 mm Kurtz) was also issued but not as popular.My ww2 collection built up as an x occupied country during ww2 is mainly 32cal.Kestral