shorts in a semi-auto?

[squirrelnutzipper]

Hi. Forum newbie, but crusty old crackpot rifleman. Question: What I want is a .22 rifle that will shoot all lengths of ammo, including the CB shorts. I'd prefer a single shot or bolt action. Problem with that is, I'm a leftie shooter. Nobody stocks left handed rifles, and to try to get someone to order one is just not worth the aggravation they would put me through. I'll settle for a semi-automatic, but all the ones I see are only made for LR. I'm wondering if I can use shorts in a semi-automatic if I load them manually one at a time into the chamber? Any advice is much appreciated.

[LDBennett]

squirrelnutzipper:

Single loading shorts in a semi-auto is no problem. The chamber will take long rifle, longs, or shorts because the rim stops the case from entering too far into the chamber....The gun headspaces on the rim. Be sure to clean the chamber after using shorts or long rifles may not chamber due to the build up of burned powder in the spaces that the short does not use but the longer case of the long rifles does.

The limit for most semi-autos is the way the feeding of ammo from the magazine is done. Some semi-autos require ammo of a certain length (22LR) or they jam up in feeding. There are some semi-autos out there that will feed long rifles, longs and shorts from the magazine but the shorts may not operate the mechanism. In that case you might be able to fit a reduced recoil spring or just manually operate the bolt. You might have to do an investigation and call a few manufacturers to find out which ones.

The problem today is that shorts are rarely found for sale and probably are an insignificant part of the production of most 22 ammo makers. And that is only going to get worse with time so manufacturers no longer consider shorts when they design a gun.

LDBennett

[squirrelnutzipper]

Now that you mention it, I don't think I've seen shorts for sale in any of the stores around here. It didn't occur to me that getting them would be a problem. I've been using an air rifle for pest control. I'm wanting to get a .22 rimfire because of the increase in the coyote population here. But, I'm worried about the proximity of other houses. I live in a rural area, but still, considering the effective range of a .22 LR, it certainly is possible that I could miss an intended target with tragic results. I figured the CB shorts are no more powerful than some airguns I've seen, so I wouldn't have to worry about that. It's one thing to say that you should always be aware of what's behind your target, but you know in the heat of the moment, when you're chasing a squirrel or racoon up a tree, sometimes you're just not using the best judgement and paying attention to your surroundings the way you should. I'd like a .22 that would fire LR when I encounter a coyote, but would also work with shorts for smaller game and pests.

[nolacajun]

We have a couple of places here that still handle the 22 Short cartridge, but the price is way high. Over $5.00/box of 50.

If you want to shoot shorts, my recommendation would be to haunt the pawn shops and gun shops that sell used firearms and find an older rifle, probably a single shot or bolt action, and go that way. Preferably one with a a tubular magazine as they will smoothly operate with a tube full of mixed ammo...shorts, longs, and long rifles.

You might also try to find someone who sells the Colibri rounds...for rifles. No powder in them, and only accurate for MAYBE for 40-50 yds with any punch. Good for squirrels and other vermin in the back yard and almost no noise. Expect to pay about $20.00 for 200 rounds. And make sure they are the ones for a rifle, not a handgun.

Hope this helps....

John

[squirrelnutzipper]

Yeah, thanks for all the great advice. I was going to buy the Mossberg Plinkster from Dicks Sporting goods, but only because I haven't found what I really want. I think I'll keep looking.

[Oregon Shooter]

I wonder if any rimfire 22 is adequate enough to kill a coyote.
Anything that is going to be safe to shoot in a rural setting would only wound a Coyote.
Anything other than a clean kill is cruel and should be avoided if possible.
As for smaller vermin, Colibri rounds will put a good sized dent in a coffee can but won't go thru the metal.

[keppler]

I have an old Remington 550-1 that shoots shorts, long and long rifle. Been years since I shot anything but long rifle...heck...it's been years since I shot it at all. Seems like it worked in semi-auto most of the time with the shorts. It has what was called a floating chamber, I think most of the older semi-auto Remingtons had this feature.

[CampingJosh]

I spotted Remington .22 shorts at Wal-mart the other day. I think they were about $3.50 for a box of 50, but I'm not sure... I still have most of a box, and I rarely use them, so I didn't look closely.

[squirrelnutzipper]

Originally Posted by Oregon Shooter

I wonder if any rimfire 22 is adequate enough to kill a coyote.
Anything that is going to be safe to shoot in a rural setting would only wound a Coyote.
Anything other than a clean kill is cruel and should be avoided if possible.
As for smaller vermin, Colibri rounds will put a good sized dent in a coffee can but won't go thru the metal.

Gotta disagree with you there. I'm with you totally on the need for a quick, humane kill. But, it's all about shot placement. Coyotes around here have been killed with air rifles. A high power air rifle will fire an 8gr. pellet at 1,000fps. A well placed head shot will take down game the size of a coyote or large racoon. A .22 caliber, 40gr. slug at 1,200fps is certainly adequate. The most important factor in a humane kill is the skill of the shooter.

[Oregon Shooter]

You need to remember that the 22s has a lot lower velocity and ft lbs energy than a 22lr.

As example Remington short is a
29gr. with 640 fps and 35ft lbs energy @ 50 yards

A Remington gold lr is a
40gr. with 1113 fps and 140ft lbs of energy @ 50 yards
(I chose this bullet as it was the same brand and in the middle of the velocity range that Remington offers)

I chose the 50 yard ballistics as this would be closer to the range that you would hit your target, rather than @ the muzzle.

I think that when it comes to a killing shot the energy is More important than the velocity.

I have a Westernfield pump 22 that shoots S,L and LR. It was made by Noble for Wards. I don't know if any other older or newer pumps shoot shorts but a pump would solve any problems for a left hander.
Some of the Lever guns will also shoot all lengths.

Hope this helps

[squirrelnutzipper]

Thanks for the info. I'm still learning, even after half a century of staring down a rifle barrel. I guess I should have been more specific about my intended use of a .22 caliber rifle.
I think a .22 could take a coyote at 50 yards with the right load, like a HV LR or Mag, But that's not what I 'm doing, hopefully. I do want the ability to do that if necessary, but mostly I'm shooting at squirrels in my bird feeder at no more than 24 yards. I've been very effectively using a Crosman air rifle for that purpose, but I wouldn't want to have to take down a Coyote with it. Also, there has been a recent influx of fisher cats into this area. Heard of them? They are relatives of the weasel. They like to feed on domestic chickens and house cats. I'd take out a few of those if I got the chance.

[mikewilson]

I have a nice little Savage Arms .22 Bolt Action that is accurate up to 100 yards + with a 3x scope! Can't beat it for the money! I can shoot the eye out of a dime @ 300 ft.
(100 yards!). ! I use, as recommended, .22 LR Hi-Velocity Hollow points, by CCI. Sounds simple, but that is what works in this rifle! I know Savage doesn't have that good of a reputation, but for what I use it for, it's unbeatable!

[squirrelnutzipper]

I'd love to have a Savage bolt action. And, Savage does make a left handed model. Problem is, like I said earlier, nobody stocks left handed rifles. I'd have to order it. What a pain. Buying a gun off the rack is hard enough these days (not complaining, I suppose it should be). But to order one, they really put you through the wringer.

[Oregon Shooter]

Never heard of a fisher cat, sounds like a pesky varmit.

The ballistics on the Aguila Colibri with a 20gr is 1085fps with 6 ft lbs enegy at the muzzle. (if my info is correct) that would be alot lower than a pellet would be. Probably wouldn't kill to big of a critter but would smart like heck.

[squirrelnutzipper]

Originally Posted by Oregon Shooter

Never heard of a fisher cat, sounds like a pesky varmit.

The ballistics on the Aguila Colibri with a 20gr is 1085fps with 6 ft lbs enegy at the muzzle. (if my info is correct) that would be alot lower than a pellet would be. Probably wouldn't kill to big of a critter but would smart like heck.

I guess I just don't understand the relationship between fps and ft lbs of energy. But I do know that with a pellet gun that shoots an 8gr pellet at 600 fps, I have consistently made clean kills on squirrels from 20 yards, with proper shot placement of course. Seems to me, that with 20gr at 1085fps, which is supersonic speed, I'd be putting down a 40 lb. racoon with no trouble. Maybe the difference is that I'm coming from mostly an airgunning background. With airguns, you learn that larger caliber and increased velocity does not compensate for poor marksmanship. As I've always maintained, if you hit a squirrel in the butt with a 50 caliber slug, it's still likely to get up and run away. A .177 caliber pellet in the head does the job every time.

[midnight_cougar]

I sometimes use 22shorts out of my semi-auto savage 22lr. there accuracy is pretty good at 30 yards, and load alright if i only put 5 rounds in the clip. If i put 10 in the clip it has to be used more like a bolt action, with a few jammed emptys.

We sometimes have problems with squirrels trying to run away after blowing off part of there head with a 22mag. We blame it on the squirrels adreniline. some of them had the top of there skull blown off, one i shot blew off from his nose and half his head and he ran around in circles once he hit the ground. (this is kinda graffic)he had blood bubbles coming out of what was left of his eyesocket.

[rangerruck]

remington makes two semiautos; marlin makes several bolt actions.
any marlin model 80 or 81 's , have been made for 70 years now, and will shoot all types. Remington speedmaster will shoot all types , and it is semiauto, so will their 550 models. Maybe the best of all is their older ones, model 24, and model 241. their model 241 also came in a gs model, that is made for shorts only. Mine, I won on an auction site for 99 bucks!!!! and though it looks like it was sitting in a crap bucket for 70 years, ( the auction guy said it was up in a barn for 50 years), it functioned. so I took it all apart, cleaned it thoroughly, lubed it all up. And waa laa!!! semi auto that not only shoots shorts, but it will shoot and cycle CB's!!! can you believe that? a round that contains no powder, only fires off of the primer, and it cycles.
I was at the range with it a week ago, and the range officers were just amazed, i was blooping shots in at 100 yds like a mortar tube.
then , one of the officers says, "take off the hearing muffs for a minute..."
so we all take off the hearing protection, and I fire again. it was no louder than those old plastic kid's cap guns, that came with the paper strips of powder, that you snapped off , as if fed through the revolver. It was soo cool, the range officers could not believe how quiet it was, this rifle is the ultimate backyard squirrrel getter.

[rangerruck]

oh yeah, Aguila colibris are about 350 fps from the muzzle of a pistol, super colibris are about 550 fps. they do have 20 grain bullets though, so they will still put down any squirrely in a backyard.
http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_s...oduct1238.html
http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_s...ri_22_box.html
http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm...dID=AU1B222337

the last page shows the speed of the colibris, the first two are the supers.

[Contenderizer]

Your guys have overlooked a viable option. Consider a Marlin 39-A lever gun. Works good for a leftie and is approved for S, L and LR, though as mentioned earlier, proper cleaning after firing anything other than LR is an absolute must!

[w1spurgeon]

OK - I gotta jump in here. Don't claim to be an expert, but it seems obvious that you should check out semiauto .22s that were designed to shoot shorts. The Remington Model 24 comes to mind. Some of these guns come from the factory tagged ".22 short only". They are occasionally seen on ********* in the $300 range. Also, if you can live with a slide-action, you could consider a Winchester 1890 or 1906, both of which were available in variants designed exclusively for the .22 short.

[RonC1]

I know you are looking for a bolt gun. (Single shot is not a problem as noted above.) A tube fed Win Model 72 will do that.

In terms of modern rifles, the Henry H001 Lever Action is specified to feed all three 22s. I recommend it. Not a 39A but nice and smooth and half the price.

Oh, the Colibri (no powder, just priming mix,) is not recommended for use in a rifle. Aquila is afraid you might stick the bullet in the barrel of a rifle and hurt yourself or the gun.

[rangerruck]

w1spurgeon; that is why I got mine for 99 bucks!! looks like absolute trash, but shoots like an Angel.

[djohns6]

Originally Posted by Contenderizer

Your guys have overlooked a viable option. Consider a Marlin 39-A lever gun. Works good for a leftie and is approved for S, L and LR, though as mentioned earlier, proper cleaning after firing anything other than LR is an absolute must!

I used to shoot squirrels on my deck with my 39A loaded with shorts . The little varmits were multiplying like crazy and I would have a dozen or more raiding my bird feeders . One of my co-workers loved squirrel stew so it was a win-win situation .

[squirrelnutzipper]

I looked at those Calibri rounds and I gotta say, I think my Crosman air rifle is probably more deadly to squirrels than those would be. I don't know. I'm thinking now maybe I'll just stick to air gunning. I just saw the Mossberg Plinkster in a store for $99.00 and that's what got me to thinking about a .22.
My wife is against my purchasing one. She thinks I'm not mentally stable enough to own a "real gun". I've tried explaining that there are air rifles that are far more lethal than a .22 rimfire, but it's lost on her. This is all getting too complicated for me. I need to go take a nap now. Talk to you guys later.

[Oregon Shooter]

Originally Posted by squirrelnutzipper

I looked at those Calibri rounds and I gotta say, I think my Crosman air rifle is probably more deadly to squirrels than those would be. I don't know. I'm thinking now maybe I'll just stick to air gunning. I just saw the Mossberg Plinkster in a store for $99.00 and that's what got me to thinking about a .22.
My wife is against my purchasing one. She thinks I'm not mentally stable enough to own a "real gun". I've tried explaining that there are air rifles that are far more lethal than a .22 rimfire, but it's lost on her. This is all getting too complicated for me. I need to go take a nap now. Talk to you guys later.

You can do what I did. Years ago my wife said I had "too many guns"
So I bought a Jennings 22 pistol and told her I bought it for her.
Well I just traded "Her" pistol for a Glenfield semi auto.
For Her of coarse