DOD REPORT ON CAPTURED IRAQI DOCUMENTS - The Firearms Forum

Marlin T · 03-20-2008, 10:47 PM

DOD REPORT ON CAPTURED IRAQI DOCUMENTS

A Defense Department-sponsored report that examined captured Iraqi documents for indications of links between Saddam Hussein and terrorist organizations is now available online.

The five-volume report affirmed that there was "no 'smoking gun' (i.e., direct connection) between Saddam's Iraq and al Qaeda." But it also said there was "strong evidence that links the regime of Saddam Hussein to regional and global terrorism."

Although the report was publicly released on March 13, the Department of Defense declined to publish it online, offering instead to provide copies on disk. The full five-volume study has now been posted on the Federation of American Scientists web site.

See "Iraqi Perspectives Project: Saddam and Terrorism: Emerging Insights from Captured Iraqi Documents," Institute for Defense Analyses, November 2007, redacted and released March 2008:

The study was first reported prior to release by Warren P. Strobel of McClatchy Newspapers. The first of the five volumes was previously posted on the ABC News web site. The latter volumes include hundreds of pages of captured Iraqi documents, declassified and translated into English.

The Defense Intelligence Agency "made every effort to balance national security concerns, requirements of law, and the needs of an informed democracy and focused the redactions to the necessary minimum," the report states.

The Iraqi documents themselves are an eclectic, uneven bunch.

One of them, a fifty-page Iraqi "intelligence" analysis, disparages the austerely conservative Wahhabi school of Islam by claiming that its eighteenth century founder, Ibn 'Abd al Wahhab, had ancestors who were Jews.

In what must be the only laugh-out-loud line in the generally dismal five-volume report, the Iraqi analysis states that Ibn 'Abd al Wahhab's grandfather's true name was not "Sulayman" but "Shulman."

"Tawran confirms that Sulayman, the grandfather of the sheikh, is (Shulman); he is Jew from the merchants of the city of Burstah in Turkey, he had left it and settled in Damascus, grew his beard, and wore the Muslim turban, but was thrown out for being voodoo" (at page 20 of 56).

The analysis, produced by the Air Defense Security System of Iraq's General Military Intelligence Directorate, is not a very reliable guide to Islamic or Jewish history, though it may explain something about Iraq's air defenses.

"The Birth of Al-Wahabi Movement and Its Historic Roots" appears in volume 5 of the Defense Department report and is also available in this extract (13 MB PDF):

Vladimir · 03-21-2008, 02:41 AM

It doesn't matter if Saddam helped al-Qaeda or not.

Saddam was an unstable lunatic, and as his FBI interrogator confirmed (as lower level analysts had been pondering for a while) Saddam wanted us to think he had weapons of mass destruction, some even question if he knew he didn't. Some supposed his generals all swore they had WMD, and just assumed the other general had them.

But as his interrogator pointed out, if the USA was confident Iraq had WMD, Iran would be confident, and Iran wouldn't pose nearly as much of a threat to Saddam's regime.

Additionally the man was an unstable nut case.

This mural is behind Saddam's throne, but few know what it really is. The caption or implied subtitle (whatever) was something like "Who will fire the 14th" (someone correct me on the details it is late at night), commemorating some 13 missiles that were fired into Israel, the question being essentially "who would have the balls to fire the 14th." As one eye witness reports, directly across from the missiles is a mural of Jerusalem, clearly in the line of the (mural) missiles. This part I am not positive about, just part of the guy's story I found while looking for a picture of the mural. But I am sure about the mural of the missiles itself.

The guy was deranged and a threat to the world. The world knew it, as evidenced by everything the UN was threatening- the problem was, unlike the United States, the world lacked the courage and moral fortitude to keep to their word, and do what they had promised. Again, as Saddam's interrogator pointed out, the person most surprised by a US invasion (IE not "just" an air campaign) was Saddam himself.

I take no responsibility for how the Bush administration pitched the war, but the war itself was completly justified. Things look bad now, but they looked pretty bad in WWI and WWII, I guess you could argue those fights more noble since they weren't "pre-emptive" (I think the Kurds in particular would scoff at the idea that OIF was "pre-emptive")... but just because things look bad doesn't mean we should lose our resolve.

[Not directed at anyone in particular, I don't think you concluded we need to pull out or anything, just a rant in general]

delta13soultaker · 03-21-2008, 10:48 AM

We were positive in 2004 that Iraqi intelligence was working with Al Qaeda because we were finding Iraqi Intel source reports that described what they were doing in Saudi Arabia up to 3 years prior. These were authentic reports from source meets etc with source numbers on them and everything. I will never forget them because the first ones we found I had translated by our CAT III terps and I xeroxed them myself (reports and transations) at a TOC in BIAP when I forwarded it up. I remember well...it was July 15, my ex-wifes birthday, I had to call and say happy bday and wanted so badly to tell her what we'd been reading but couldn't. We found paperwork on illegal oil sales too to 3 countries, 2 are allies of ours...my hands were shaking when I xeroxed those at Camp Liberty.

Vladimir · 03-21-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

We were positive in 2004 that Iraqi intelligence was working with Al Qaeda because we were finding Iraqi Intel source reports that described what they were doing in Saudi Arabia up to 3 years prior. These were authentic reports from source meets etc with source numbers on them and everything. I will never forget them because the first ones we found I had translated by our CAT III terps and I xeroxed them myself (reports and transations) at a TOC in BIAP when I forwarded it up. I remember well...it was July 15, my ex-wifes birthday, I had to call and say happy bday and wanted so badly to tell her what we'd been reading but couldn't. We found paperwork on illegal oil sales too to 3 countries, 2 are allies of ours...my hands were shaking when I xeroxed those at Camp Liberty.

The truth always has a way of getting lost though too. I have friends that were in Iraq that swear they recovered SCUDS, well by UN designation SCUDS are WMD.... but for some reason that never makes it to CNN/Fox.

JoeInSTL · 03-21-2008, 02:59 PM

The war in Iraq had nothing to do with WMD. WMDs were just the rationalization used to invade. It had a lot more to do with protecting the value of the US dollar. Sadam was trading oil for Euros, this is a no-no.

"But, after all, it is the leaders of the
country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to
drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no
voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger. It works the same in any country."

- Hermann Goering the second man in the Third Reich (Hitler's right hand)

The Bush administration understands these tactics very well...

Vladimir · 03-21-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeInSTL

The war in Iraq had nothing to do with WMD. WMDs were just the rationalization used to invade. It had a lot more to do with protecting the value of the US dollar. Sadam was trading oil for Euros, this is a no-no.

"But, after all, it is the leaders of the
country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to
drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no
voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger. It works the same in any country."

- Hermann Goering the second man in the Third Reich (Hitler's right hand)

The Bush administration understands these tactics very well...

You might want to cinch up that tin foil hat, they are on to you now.

artabr · 03-21-2008, 05:02 PM

Here we go! It's all about the oil! Can I have some of what you're smokin' Joe?

artabr · 03-21-2008, 07:28 PM

Please delete this post. Would not link to correct site.

Marlin T · 03-21-2008, 07:47 PM

Delta, can you imagine how many documents are still in the “translate” pile?
Delta, did you read the report that I posted? If so, what did you think?

Joe, WMD’s were but only one part of the UN sanctions that Iraq was in violation of.

Dakota Red 1 · 03-21-2008, 10:42 PM

WMDs? WMDs? More to come on those or my name isn't B.U.B.

JoeInSTL · 03-24-2008, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vladimir

You might want to cinch up that tin foil hat, they are on to you now.

LOL, it's on tight and fits just fine. Now only if we could find those WMDs everyone keeps talking about....

delta13soultaker · 03-24-2008, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marlin T

Delta, can you imagine how many documents are still in the “translate” pile?
Delta, did you read the report that I posted? If so, what did you think?

Joe, WMD’s were but only one part of the UN sanctions that Iraq was in violation of.

The translate pile...well intelligence gathering is a hellish task more art than science and the margin for error is not forgiving. Technology has not very well replaced the need for man hours and attention to detail in gathering human intel either. If you seen it at the source collecting level you would really wonder how a big picture ever became clear. We wondered how alphabet agencies were so nonchalant about things we sent higher that we believed were earth-shattering...but in hindsight, even though we were working an area nearly as big as from Austin to Houston, thus believed we had a pretty big picture of our own, we were somehow usually last to know. The sun doesn't set on the thing.

No, sorry I'm not even gonna pretend to wade through that gigantic report.

What I think...is a big heap of paper generated by an anylist to explain ad nauseam why the DIA says Saddam's government was linked to terrorist activity, what it could do and how. Am I close?

03-20-2008, 10:47 PM	#1
Marlin T Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 7,857	DOD REPORT ON CAPTURED IRAQI DOCUMENTS DOD REPORT ON CAPTURED IRAQI DOCUMENTS A Defense Department-sponsored report that examined captured Iraqi documents for indications of links between Saddam Hussein and terrorist organizations is now available online. The five-volume report affirmed that there was "no 'smoking gun' (i.e., direct connection) between Saddam's Iraq and al Qaeda." But it also said there was "strong evidence that links the regime of Saddam Hussein to regional and global terrorism." Although the report was publicly released on March 13, the Department of Defense declined to publish it online, offering instead to provide copies on disk. The full five-volume study has now been posted on the Federation of American Scientists web site. See "Iraqi Perspectives Project: Saddam and Terrorism: Emerging Insights from Captured Iraqi Documents," Institute for Defense Analyses, November 2007, redacted and released March 2008: The study was first reported prior to release by Warren P. Strobel of McClatchy Newspapers. The first of the five volumes was previously posted on the ABC News web site. The latter volumes include hundreds of pages of captured Iraqi documents, declassified and translated into English. The Defense Intelligence Agency "made every effort to balance national security concerns, requirements of law, and the needs of an informed democracy and focused the redactions to the necessary minimum," the report states. The Iraqi documents themselves are an eclectic, uneven bunch. One of them, a fifty-page Iraqi "intelligence" analysis, disparages the austerely conservative Wahhabi school of Islam by claiming that its eighteenth century founder, Ibn 'Abd al Wahhab, had ancestors who were Jews. In what must be the only laugh-out-loud line in the generally dismal five-volume report, the Iraqi analysis states that Ibn 'Abd al Wahhab's grandfather's true name was not "Sulayman" but "Shulman." "Tawran confirms that Sulayman, the grandfather of the sheikh, is (Shulman); he is Jew from the merchants of the city of Burstah in Turkey, he had left it and settled in Damascus, grew his beard, and wore the Muslim turban, but was thrown out for being voodoo" (at page 20 of 56). The analysis, produced by the Air Defense Security System of Iraq's General Military Intelligence Directorate, is not a very reliable guide to Islamic or Jewish history, though it may explain something about Iraq's air defenses. "The Birth of Al-Wahabi Movement and Its Historic Roots" appears in volume 5 of the Defense Department report and is also available in this extract (13 MB PDF): __________________ "But the simple truth--born of experience--is that tyranny thrives best where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people." Judge Alex Kozinski - United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. - Thomas Paine Did you read todays GOOD shooting? >>>KEEPANDBEARARMS.COM <<< -->

03-21-2008, 02:41 AM	#2
Vladimir Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Issaquah WA Posts: 3,558	Re: DOD REPORT ON CAPTURED IRAQI DOCUMENTS It doesn't matter if Saddam helped al-Qaeda or not. Saddam was an unstable lunatic, and as his FBI interrogator confirmed (as lower level analysts had been pondering for a while) Saddam wanted us to think he had weapons of mass destruction, some even question if he knew he didn't. Some supposed his generals all swore they had WMD, and just assumed the other general had them. But as his interrogator pointed out, if the USA was confident Iraq had WMD, Iran would be confident, and Iran wouldn't pose nearly as much of a threat to Saddam's regime. Additionally the man was an unstable nut case. This mural is behind Saddam's throne, but few know what it really is. The caption or implied subtitle (whatever) was something like "Who will fire the 14th" (someone correct me on the details it is late at night), commemorating some 13 missiles that were fired into Israel, the question being essentially "who would have the balls to fire the 14th." As one eye witness reports, directly across from the missiles is a mural of Jerusalem, clearly in the line of the (mural) missiles. This part I am not positive about, just part of the guy's story I found while looking for a picture of the mural. But I am sure about the mural of the missiles itself. The guy was deranged and a threat to the world. The world knew it, as evidenced by everything the UN was threatening- the problem was, unlike the United States, the world lacked the courage and moral fortitude to keep to their word, and do what they had promised. Again, as Saddam's interrogator pointed out, the person most surprised by a US invasion (IE not "just" an air campaign) was Saddam himself. I take no responsibility for how the Bush administration pitched the war, but the war itself was completly justified. Things look bad now, but they looked pretty bad in WWI and WWII, I guess you could argue those fights more noble since they weren't "pre-emptive" (I think the Kurds in particular would scoff at the idea that OIF was "pre-emptive")... but just because things look bad doesn't mean we should lose our resolve. [Not directed at anyone in particular, I don't think you concluded we need to pull out or anything, just a rant in general] __________________ -JVRR меня зовут Владимир или Джеймс. Я знаю только немного русский язык (я американец, но мой пра дедушка русски). STEAM (CSS, TF2, etc): Ask me! Xbox LIVE! GT: "Vlad is Rad" PS3 PSN: "Vlad_Is_Rad"

03-21-2008, 10:48 AM	#3
delta13soultaker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Depends on Uncle Sam's whim every 3 yrs. Posts: 2,948	Re: DOD REPORT ON CAPTURED IRAQI DOCUMENTS We were positive in 2004 that Iraqi intelligence was working with Al Qaeda because we were finding Iraqi Intel source reports that described what they were doing in Saudi Arabia up to 3 years prior. These were authentic reports from source meets etc with source numbers on them and everything. I will never forget them because the first ones we found I had translated by our CAT III terps and I xeroxed them myself (reports and transations) at a TOC in BIAP when I forwarded it up. I remember well...it was July 15, my ex-wifes birthday, I had to call and say happy bday and wanted so badly to tell her what we'd been reading but couldn't. We found paperwork on illegal oil sales too to 3 countries, 2 are allies of ours...my hands were shaking when I xeroxed those at Camp Liberty. __________________ Never say die! "A nation who forgets its defenders is soon forgotten itself." "A good shot must necessarily be a good man since the essence of good marksmanship is self-control and self-control is the essential quality of a good man." – Theodore Roosevelt

03-21-2008, 02:59 PM	#5
JoeInSTL Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6	Re: DOD REPORT ON CAPTURED IRAQI DOCUMENTS The war in Iraq had nothing to do with WMD. WMDs were just the rationalization used to invade. It had a lot more to do with protecting the value of the US dollar. Sadam was trading oil for Euros, this is a no-no. "But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Hermann Goering the second man in the Third Reich (Hitler's right hand) The Bush administration understands these tactics very well...

03-21-2008, 05:02 PM	#7
artabr Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Iberia, Louisiana Contributor Posts: 7,859	Re: DOD REPORT ON CAPTURED IRAQI DOCUMENTS Here we go! It's all about the oil! Can I have some of what you're smokin' Joe? __________________ God and the soldier we like adore, In times of trouble, not before. When troubles ended and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier is slighted. Francis Quarles 1592 - 1644 __________________ When asked for my race, I answer CauCajun. Hope is not a plan, and not all change is good. The resistance is here; the resistance is now. RESIST! These hands are neither cold nor are they dead!! Last edited by artabr; 03-21-2008 at 05:04 PM..

03-21-2008, 07:28 PM	#8
artabr Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Iberia, Louisiana Contributor Posts: 7,859	Re: DOD REPORT ON CAPTURED IRAQI DOCUMENTS Please delete this post. Would not link to correct site. __________________ God and the soldier we like adore, In times of trouble, not before. When troubles ended and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier is slighted. Francis Quarles 1592 - 1644 __________________ When asked for my race, I answer CauCajun. Hope is not a plan, and not all change is good. The resistance is here; the resistance is now. RESIST! These hands are neither cold nor are they dead!! Last edited by artabr; 03-21-2008 at 07:44 PM..

03-21-2008, 07:47 PM	#9
Marlin T Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 7,857	Re: DOD REPORT ON CAPTURED IRAQI DOCUMENTS Delta, can you imagine how many documents are still in the “translate” pile? Delta, did you read the report that I posted? If so, what did you think? Joe, WMD’s were but only one part of the UN sanctions that Iraq was in violation of. __________________ "But the simple truth--born of experience--is that tyranny thrives best where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people." Judge Alex Kozinski - United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. - Thomas Paine Did you read todays GOOD shooting? >>>KEEPANDBEARARMS.COM <<<

03-21-2008, 10:42 PM	#10
Dakota Red 1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 504	Re: DOD REPORT ON CAPTURED IRAQI DOCUMENTS WMDs? WMDs? More to come on those or my name isn't B.U.B. __________________ Warte nur, balde ruhest du auch.