Help Interpreting H&R Serial Number

[davegran]

I have an H&R top break 32 cal. pistol in blue with the caliber marking on the left side of the barrel and the serial number on the butt. The serial # has six numbers, no letters. Would somebody please tell me the scheme for decoding the serial number?

Am I correct in saying that this pistol can be used with modern ammunition?

Thanks,
Dave

[Xracer]

Hi Dave.....welcome to TFF.

Keep checking back. Our resident expert on Harrington & Richardsons, Bill Goforth (he's literally writing the book on them), should be along shortly to tell you all you'd like to know about your H&R.




*Shameless Plug*
Books by Bill Goforth:
Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993
H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due fall of 2008)
available from www.gunshowbooks.com

[b.goforth]

decoding H&R serial numbers is not easy and it takes up quite a bit of the H&R book as different models usually have seperate serial number series. gererally speaking there were three types of serial number series.

pre 1905 (1904 and before) which were more like batch numbers and usually ran from 1 to 99,999. on some models there was a different series every year.

post 1904 (1905 to 1939) one single series starting at 1 and going into the middle 6 digits (some third model auto-ejecting revolvers have been observed with number in the 800,000 range.

1940 and after letter codes used to denote year of manufacture. starting with A in 1940 and going to BC in 1986.

caliber markings on the side of the barrel ALWAYS indicate 1905 or after manufacture. when H&R made the switch to smokeless powder in 1905 they started marking the caliber on the left side of the barrel of all their handguns. no caliber markings = black powder, caliber markings = smokeless powder.

please keep in mind that H&R did not alway obey their own rules and there are exception to every rule. during 1890 though 1904 H&R was manufacturing so many top break revolvers they starting using a letter code after 100,000 had been reached. these letter code were stamped along with the serial number on the bottom of the top strap (the cylinder had to be removed to see this location).

the revolver pictured is one of the limited production Hammerless Bicycle models (1899-1920). the caliber markings and 6 digit serial number indicate it is a second model and if in good shootaboe condition it should be safe with modern ammo. the bicycle hammerless (small frame, 2 inch barrel) is serial numbered in the same series as the regular small frame hammerless model.
bill

[davegran]

Originally Posted by b.goforth

.... the revolver pictured is one of the limited production Hammerless Bicycle models (1899-1920). the caliber markings and 6 digit serial number indicate it is a second model and if in good shootaboe condition it should be safe with modern ammo. the bicycle hammerless (small frame, 2 inch barrel) is serial numbered in the same series as the regular small frame hammerless model.
bill

Thank you for the information, Mr. Goforth. Now at least I can Google on "Hammerless Bicycle model" to find more information. By the way, my serial number is in the form of 194XXX . Would this be a fairly early example of the second model?

The pistol seems to be in good shape so I'll do some shooting with it this weekend. The cost of ammunition is surprisingly high; probably a condition of low demand causing higher production costs. Even reloading components are expensive.

The small frame and hammerless design might lend itself to a deep cover backup gun. I wonder how hot a cartridge could be safely used in it?

Thanks again,
Dave

[b.goforth]

the h&r bicycle hammerless model was only listed in the catalogs as a seperate model thru 1920. the 2 inch barrel remained an option on the regular H&R hammerless through the end of production in 1942. collectors to day refer to all 2 inch barrel versions as the bicycle model no matter when they were made. a serial number in the 194,000 range would be some time between 1915 and 1920.

i would recommend firings only factory standard velocity ammo in this revolver and would not try any hot handloads in it.
bill

[Forty-niner]

I need some info on my H&R 949. It was made in Gardner, Mass and the serial number starts with AR366.. It is the blued version but it doesn't have the model number on the barrel like it should and is nowhere on the gun. I tracked down the model number on the internet but can you tell me what the gun may be worth and when it was made. A gunsmith said it was in very good condition.
Thanks,
Forty-niner

[b.goforth]

H&R used the AR letter codes in 1977. i do not have an explaination as to why it does not have the model number marked on the barrel.

MODEL 949 FORTY-NINER----------------------------------1961-1972
Solid Frame, Double Action, Rod, Ejection, Western Style Grip, 22 Long Rifle Caliber, 9 shot, Blue Finish, Barrel Length 5½ inches
VALUE: 100%=$250 60%=$125

MODEL 949 FORTY-NINER (TRANSFER BAR IGNITION)-----------1973-1986
Solid Frame, Double Action, Rod, Ejection, Western Style Grip, 22 Long Rifle Caliber, 9 shot, Blue Finish, Barrel Length 5½ inches
VALUE: 100%=$265 60%=$150

bill

[walrusjax]

I could use some help too. This is a 7 shot revolver (.22 Cal) that belonged to my wife's grandfather. The serial number is in the format of 476XXX. Any idea of when this was built and where?

Thanks

[b.goforth]

if this is a top break it is a H&R Premier model manufactured in the 1924 to 1930 era or one of its variations. if it is a solid frame model it is a model 1906 or one of its variations manufactured in the 1932 to 1937 era. without a picture or knowning the exact markings i can't give you an exact model.
bill

[walrusjax]

Let me see if I can post a picture or two.

I'm trying to find out whatever I can about this gun. I was told that it belonged to my wife's grandfather who drove cattle one year. Apparently, his father bought it for him to wear while doing his job (as you can see in the pic, we have the holster too). I'm in the process of documenting as much as I can about all of my guns so that I have a history of them when they get passed on to my kids. Please review the pics and let me know whatever you can, and thank you very much for the help.

[b.goforth]

it does not look like there are any markings on the left side of the barrel other than the caliber so this would be the premier model fitted with extra cost oversize grips and 6 inch barrel. during the same time (1925-1934)frame H&R offered this revolver as the H&R TARGET (aka model 766) the only difference was H&R Target was marked on the barrel. by the time the premier model was fitted with a longer barrel and oversize grips the cost was about the same for the two models. the offering of the H&R Target model was just another way to try to sell more revolver. factory serial numbers are not available for this model so i believe this revolver was manufactured before the H&R Target was introduced in 1924 (most likely 1920 to 1923)

below is information of both models.

H&R PREMER SECOND MODEL SMALL FRAME TOP BREAK R.F. & C.F. ----------1905-1941
Small fame double action top break revolver with double top post barrel latch; calibers and cylinder capacity, 22 rimfire-7 rounds, 32 S&W, 5 rounds; automatic cylinder stop; standard finish Nickel with case harden hammer and barrel latch; standard barrel length 3 inches, with 2, 4, 5 and 6 inches available as optional; HAS CALIBER MARKINGS ON LEFT SIDE OF BARREL WAS MANUFACTURED FOR SMOKELESS POWDER CARTRIDGE PRESSURES.
There has not been enough data gathered on serial number to try to come up with a serial number range for the different variations.
First Variation, model name & caliber marked on left side of barrel, patent dates 5-14-89, 4-2-95, 4-7-96---------------1905-Only
Second Variation, model name & caliber marked on left side of barrel, patent dates 4-2-95, 4-7-96-------------------1906-1908
Third Variation, caliber only marked on left side of barrel, patent date 10-8-95-------1909-1913
Fourth Variation, caliber only marked on left side of barrel, no patent date, state not spelled out in address (MASS)---------1914-1915
Fifth Variation, caliber only marked on left side of barrel same as 4th except different font used in barrel markings----------1914-1915
Sixth Variation, caliber only marked on left side of barrel. State name in barrel marking spelled out (MASSACHUSETTS)-----1916-1924
Seventh Variation, new grip frame, there is no step down for the grip panels to fit into-----1925-1942
After 1930 listed in catalogs as; PREMIER No. 30 .22 Rimfire 7 shot & PREMIER No. 35.32 S&W 5 shot
VALUE: 100%=$265 60%=$75 Add 10% premium for blue finish; 20% premium 4”, 5” or 6” barrel; 20% premium for 22 rimfire caliber; 10% premium for 7th variation

H&R TARGET SMALL FRAME TOP BREAK --------------1925-1934
Small fame double action top break revolver with double top post barrel latch; 22 rimfire caliber only, 7 shot cylinder capacity, blue finish 6 inch barrel length only, over size two piece walnut grips, marked on left side of barrel “H&R TARGET” 22 rimfire on the right side of the barrel and company name and address on the top of the barrel rib. After 1930 listed in the catalogs as; MODEL 766 TARGET SMALL FRAME TOP BREAK REVOLVER 7 SHOT
VALUE: 100%=$325 60%=$115

bill

[walrusjax]

Thanks for your help. It looks to me like this is the 6th variation (per your description). I'm posting pictures of the writing on the gun (serial number is inside the grip).

[localnet]

I just picked up a Young America Double Action at an auction. It is nickel with blued triger guard, Appears to be .22 Short 7 shot. H&R Arms Company, Worcester Mass USA on the 2" octagon barrel No caliber specification. Serial number under grip is 7XXX. Since there is no caliber designation on the barrel, I believe it to be the Young America Double Action First Model, Third Variation (Black Powder). Although I guess it could be the Second Model (Smokeless Powder). Could someone tell me which model I have and the exact year it was made? The gun is probably 90%+ condition and only cost me $23 so I know I didn't get hurt, I would just like to know I am being accurate with my record keeping.

[b.goforth]

localnet,
i believe you have come to the correct conclusion on this revolver it is a first model 3rd variation manufactured between 1897 and 1904.

the serial number are a major problem as durng the production of the first model there was at least two different serial numbers series and the possibility of more. with out any factory serial number records we will never know.

YOUNG AMERICA DOUBLE ACTION FIRST MODEL
(BLACK POWDER) ---------------------------------------------1884-1904
pull pin cylinder release, nickel finish standard, blue considered rare, marking on top strap only “YOUNG AMERICA DOUBLE ACTION” or “YOUNG AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION” two frame sizes
SMALL SOLID FRAME .22 RIMFIRE 7 SHOT, octagon barrel, lengths of 2, 4½ and 6 inches
MEDIUM FRAME .32 S&W CALIBER 5 SHOT, octagon barrel, lengths of 2, 4½ and 6 inches
First Variation will have a round barrel & nickel trigger guard --1884-1887
Second Variation will have a octagon barrel & nickel trigger guard --1888-1897
Third Variation will have a octagon barrel , blue trigger guard and company name and address on left side of barrel ---------------1897-1904
VALUE: First Variation 100%-$275 60%=$100 Others 100%=$225 60%=$65
For all Young America Double Action variations and variants add 15% premium for blue finish and 10% premium for 4½” or 6” barrels.

[localnet]

b.goforth:

Thanks for the quick reply. I am happy to hear I was correct in my identification from what internet research I was able to do. Is your H&R book out yet? Is it available in digital format? I went to the link you had posted and could not find it. I would very much like the book since I encounter H&R's at auctions frequently and have difficulty narrowing them down to a specific model/variation with any ease.

Thanks again.

--localnet

[b.goforth]

the H&R book is still in final preperations and the publishing date is up in the air for now. you will have to check the publisher to see if it will be available in digital form. the one thing i know for sure is if you cantact him he will put you on the waiting list.
bill

[b.goforth]

the H&R book is still in final preperations and the publishing date is up in the air for now. you will have to check the publisher to see if it will be available in digital form. the one thing i know for sure is if you contact him he will put you on the waiting list.
bill

[Mr.Negativity]

Hi everyone new member here, i just came home from my local firearms show and purchased something there and could use some assistance determining what era its from and what the value may be. I can post pics if need need be. Its a .32 H&R 6 shot revolver Nickel or Chrome plated with hard black grips with 3" barrel and its in pretty nice condition. it is a break down type to reload. There is nothing written on the barrel itself such as caliber the only writing is stamped on the bridge of the barrel by the front sight. The serial number under the strap is 5 digits with no letters the number is 84XXX. Any help determining era its from and an around figure for value would be greatly appreciated. Like i said before i can post pics of it if needed. Thank You
Oh also it is double action with exposed hammer

[Jim Hauff]

If it has no cartridge stamp on barrel it is pre 1905. Would need exactly what is stamped into the barrel rib (bridge) - full serial number will be found under the top strap when cylinder is removed (raise the latch - there may be a small button on left side of latch - if so, hold it in when you lift inside and outside latches and release when they are fully upward), then pull or unscrew cylinder from arbor. A couple pictures - especially CLEAR and in focus of the left side of the firearm and if possible the barrel rib roll stamp would be most helpful. Also, need a bit more real numbers in the serial number, xxx's don't show up in the research. Thanks.

[Mr.Negativity]

thanks for the quick reply the serial is 84295 and the top of the barrel reads
"HARRINGTON&RICARDSON ARMS COMPANY"
WORCHESTER MASS U.S.A. PAT'D (hard to read but looks like) OCT4TH 1887
i'm trying to transfer pics from my phone to my laptop then onto here if you'd like to see them

[Jim Hauff]

With NO stamping on left side of barrel and nickel plated trigger guard - your piece is a pre 1897 ANTIQUE. Pictures are very difficult for me to see - it is a 2nd Model, and with that serial number - if the s/n came from under the top strap without letter prefixes and I don't see anymore than 5 digits stamped there - it is probably a 1st Variation??? made in the early 1890s to 1892.
Does it look like this one?

[Mr.Negativity]

Thank you very much for the information so far and after i eat dinner i'm going to use a real camera (not my crappy cell phone one) it is exactly like the one pictured above except for 2 things. Maybe their on the pistol in the pic you posted but i can't see. But there is a small lever half-round type piece that sticks out when i pull the hammer back and it looks like the trigger hits it to depress the hammer to fire. Also up front under the hinge theres piece that goes inbetween the hinge and it sticks out with a radius sticking out and the bottom of the piece is knurled. It works as a release for the shell extractor when opening the shell extractor moves out then once it hits that button the extractor spring loaded slams back down. I noticed it because when i had it open half way with the extractor coming out i pressed that little button and the extractor returned to its seated position in the cylinder.Also the front sight is a full arc with no flat on it. I paid $100.00 yesterday and the guy threw in a a box of 50 rounds. Is that about average as far as price and value? I will definately be posting some better pics on here shortly and thank you very much for your help again.

[Jim Hauff]

Yep - those are, in order - the single action sear trip lever and the automatic ejector interrupter. Those two pieces are missing on the example pictured - good catch. I have pictures of other examples of the 2nd Model 1st Var. but they all have serial numbers starting with letters - I didn't want to confuse the issue by posting one of those. NOTE that your piece was made to handle black powder pressure curves!
Here's two with all the parts attached:



p.s. $100 is not a bad price for one of these antiques in good to excellent condition!

[richerich]

I have one of these but in .38 S&W sn #335xxx looks just like the one Jim posted but blue. it doesnt work can I still get parts for it? Any good gun smiths around Akron, OH that can repair it? It may not be worth alot but it was my grandfathers and it was a fun shooter I would like to shoot it again! THANKS!

[Jim Hauff]

richerich,
Try this site for parts:
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/...spx?catid=7961