Help Interpreting H&R Serial Number

[Jim Hauff]

Originally Posted by BobVa

Of note, the pin has knurle bands all the way to the base of the receiver (8 vs the 4 shown in your picture). Don't know if there is any significance to this difference.

Thanks again

Bob

Bob,
You're welcome. I don't know, at this time, what the significance is, either. I'll do some investigating on other H&R models from that time period and see if I can come up with a time frame for that change.

[Jim Hauff]

Well, that didn't take very long. It looks as though the H&R Model 922 (while of different design - large solid frame) had the cylinder pin switched to "long" and with 8 knurled bands in the 1938 - '39 time period. That fits pretty well with the original time/year estimate for your piece. Learned something new, again, today.
Thanks for asking the question.

[dbeers02]

I have an old 5 shot revolver that my grandfather gave to my dad 40+ years ago. My grandfather found it buried when he was doing some demolition work in Lawrence Kansas. It is not in great shape, and I have searched and searched trying to figure out exactly what it is.
It is a top break 5 shot revolver. It has alot of corrosion, but I am about 95 percent sure it is a Harrington and Richardson. It appears to have been either nickel or chrome plated and most of the plating is gone.
I believe it to be a 32 but my 9mm shells nearly go into it. Possibly a 38? It is a double action non self ejecting. The information on the top of the barrel appears to be stamped Harrington and Richardson Worchester Mass. USA. The rest of the info is illegible. On the left side of the butt under the grip it appears to have 582 stamped in it. Under the top where the break latch is, it appears to have 392 stamped into it. The barrel is approximately 3 inches long.

I will clean it up some more and get pics.
Any info about when it was made and what caliber it is for sure would be appreciated. I know it has little value, but it has sentimental value to my dad since my grandfather gave it to him.

[Jim Hauff]

dbeers02,
Welcome to the forum. Thanks for all the info and a very interesting history of that foundling.
There's a couple "issues" that make ID challenging. The barrel top rib stamping is a positive indentifier as to an H&R handgun. The finish would have been/is Nickel. The 3" barrel and 5 shot sounds like a PREMIER Model - which would fit with the 5 shot (in .32 cal) and the rib stamp - but you say it is "non self ejecting" which leads to a "MANUAL EJECTING" aka "SHELL EXTRACTING" 1st Model 1st Variation - which had the same barrel rib stamp and would be 5 x .38 S&W. I'll post 2 pics - you pick what you think you have and we'll go from there.
I'll bet if you look very closely, you'll see that the number stamped into the grip frame is the same as that stamped under the top strap/latch.
I'll wait for more info and/or some pics. Very interesting.
PREMIER

Manual Ejecting

[BobVa]

Jim:

Thanks for your previous help with the trapper.

Picked up a Sportsman, top break, 9 shot, SN 52434 today at an auction. bluing is 85% with minor exterior pitting.

Date / value est??

Thanks

Bob

[BobVa]

BTW Jim looked for your book and it appearently isn't ok yet. Please let me know when it is. I definitely want to buy a copy.

Bob

[dbeers02]

Thank you for the welcome.
The gun I have looks alot like the one on the bottom.
Very similar in design and the grips on the handle are exactly the same pattern as this one.
I cleaned it up today. A wire brush and alot of rust solvent.
I know it wont fire again, but dad has held on to it for 48 years I think.
I after a good cleaning, I still cant make out all the stamping on the barrel, but the number on the butt of the gun and on the latch do match. They both are stamped 582.
I cannot find any more markings of stampings anywhere.
Here are a couple pics.
In the second one, that is a standard 9mm shell in it. It nearly fits. This would make me lean towards the possiblity that its a ,38.

[Jim Hauff]

Originally Posted by BobVa

Jim:

Thanks for your previous help with the trapper.

Picked up a Sportsman, top break, 9 shot, SN 52434 today at an auction. bluing is 85% with minor exterior pitting.

Date / value est??

Thanks

Bob

Bob,
Glad to help out with the TRAPPER, thanks for thanking.
in re: the SPORTSMAN is a 1st Model 6th Variation, research is beginning to look as though this one was made in 1937 and should have the following characteristics:
Adjustable front sight with screw into top rib above muzzle.
Firing pin should be mounted on nose of hammer.
The rear (breech) face of the cylinder should have a raised "safety rim".
There should be two (2) patent numbers stamped into the cylinder.
The cylinder release should be a small push button ahead of the cylinder on the left side.
The Company name and address should be stamped into the right side of the barrel.
If your piece doesn't have these characteristics - please let me know.
Value of these older 1930's guns has increased (by approx. 200%) over the past four to five years and in 85% have been realizing a RETAIL selling price in the $250 - $285 range. Excellent condition pieces (especially with box) have been selling in the $300 - $350 range. Surprisingly, at least to me, the MODERN post 1952 pieces have been selling at a higher RETAIL point - probably because people buy them as shooters - and think "newer is better". Well, my experience with both the older and the newer has been that the older have better fit and finish, smoother actions, lighter and crisper triggers and the accuracy potential is quite a bit better. Just my humble opinion based upon experience. Shoot it and decide for yourself. Enjoy.

[Jim Hauff]

Originally Posted by BobVa

BTW Jim looked for your book and it appearently isn't ok yet. Please let me know when it is. I definitely want to buy a copy.

Bob

The H&R Book is authored by the late Bill Goforth. I am merely a contributor to the book. It has not been published as yet. I'm still waiting to hear back from the Publisher on the last batch of verifications from late July early August.

[Jim Hauff]

dbeers,
Well, we've established that it is a "MANUAL EJECTING"/"SHELL EXTRACTING" model and not the PREMIER - so the chambering would be for .38 S&W BLACK POWDER cartridges.
Your gun is very interesting, it has some physical characteristics of the 1st Model ME 1st Variation and some of the Mod. 1 2nd Variation. The "relief" cut where the top rib meets the top strap looks like that on a 2nd Variation, but the ejector rod looks like the 1st Model. The "floral" pattern black, hard rubber grip panels peg it to pre- 1890 manufacture.
Need a little more info -
Are there two guide rods on either side of the cylinder center pin?
Does the ejector rod have a "slot" cut into the exposed end, under the barrel?
Is the stamping on the barrel top rib one line? -or two lines?
No matter how it "shakes" out - this model and these variations are very scarce if not rare as not many were made. The 2nd Variation was "discovered" less than a year or so ago. There is a 2nd Model of the "MANUAL EJECTING" but it has the post 1890 pattened grip panels with the H&R "TARGET w/ holes" log molded into the top.

[dbeers02]

I will get more/better pics of it disassembled this evening.
As for the other questions.

Need a little more info -
Are there two guide rods on either side of the cylinder center pin?
No there are no rods on the sides of it. It only has a "tit" sticking off of the cylinder for aligning and there is a small hole on the ejector wheel for the pin to line up.
Does the ejector rod have a "slot" cut into the exposed end, under the barrel?
Yes. There is a straight slit in the end of the ejector rod.There is no knurling at all that I can see

Is the stamping on the barrel top rib one line? -or two lines?
The markings on the barrel are all in one line not two like I have seen several other having.
No matter how it "shakes" out - this model and these variations are very scarce if not rare as not many were made. The 2nd Variation was "discovered" less than a year or so ago. There is a 2nd Model of the "MANUAL EJECTING" but it has the post 1890 pattened grip panels with the H&R "TARGET w/ holes" log molded into the top.
I will disassemble it and get better pics posted when I get home from work this evening.
Thanks for all your help.

[81 DL]

would like to know age and value of H&R mod 999 sportsman serial #AD781xx any help would be great .Gun is about 80% Thank you in advance!

[Jim Hauff]

81 DL,
Your SPORTSMAN was made in 1966 and is a 2nd Model (1953 - '72). It should have the firing pin mounted on the nose of the hammer.
In 80% condition, the current RETAIL selling prices run in the range: $275 - $300 from what I see on the internet auction sites. I've seen some at gun shows in that condition tagged at $380 to $400 - but they don't sell - only the extremely pristine (95 - 98%) or NIB with box pieces sell above the $400 mark.

[Jim Hauff]

dbeers,
Thanks for the follow-up and I'm looking forward to some more pics.
From the answers you provided to my questions: It appears that you have another variation of the 1st Model. The lack of the two guide pins in the cylinder and the single line barrel address are a mix of 1st Var. (with the guide rods and single line address) and the "now" called 2nd Var. (without the guide rods and a two line address.) Also - the 1st Variation doesn't have the small button on the left side of the top strap/latch which holds the latch open when raised, like yours. While the "now" called 2nd Variation has the hold open button (and therefore the patent date added), which continued on to the 2nd Model. Also, the slot in the ejector rod is characteristic of the 1st Var. while the "2nd" Var. is lacking that slot and is smaller in diameter.
Looks like we may have another "transitional" piece here which may be the new 2nd Variation, making the old 2nd Variation the 3rd Variation.
I find it somewhat amazing that H&R made this many changes in a 6 or 7 year span, to a gun that had very limited production numbers. More grist for the mill.

Attachment 51251

Attachment 51255

[BobVa]

Originally Posted by Jim Hauff

Bob,
Glad to help out with the TRAPPER, thanks for thanking.
in re: the SPORTSMAN is a 1st Model 6th Variation, research is beginning to look as though this one was made in 1937 and should have the following characteristics:
Adjustable front sight with screw into top rib above muzzle.
Firing pin should be mounted on nose of hammer.
The rear (breech) face of the cylinder should have a raised "safety rim".
There should be two (2) patent numbers stamped into the cylinder.
The cylinder release should be a small push button ahead of the cylinder on the left side.
The Company name and address should be stamped into the right side of the barrel.
If your piece doesn't have these characteristics - please let me know.
Value of these older 1930's guns has increased (by approx. 200%) over the past four to five years and in 85% have been realizing a RETAIL selling price in the $250 - $285 range. Excellent condition pieces (especially with box) have been selling in the $300 - $350 range. Surprisingly, at least to me, the MODERN post 1952 pieces have been selling at a higher RETAIL point - probably because people buy them as shooters - and think "newer is better". Well, my experience with both the older and the newer has been that the older have better fit and finish, smoother actions, lighter and crisper triggers and the accuracy potential is quite a bit better. Just my humble opinion based upon experience. Shoot it and decide for yourself. Enjoy.

Once again Jim thank you very much. Got it for $175, so guess I did ok. Plan on putting it in with the others in my collection.

Bob

[Jim Hauff]

Bob,
You're welcome, again. $175 is an excellent price to pay for one of those oldies. I got an 'L' - 1951 dated piece a month ago from a dealer friend for $165 + 6% tax + Instacheck - and I thought that was a real bargain. You done good!

[81 DL]

Thank you very much for the quick reply.Would you think this gun to be a good shooter? everything seems tight on it and a clean bore.

[Jim Hauff]

81 DL,
You're welcome, thanks for thanking.
IF your gun is in safe condition to fire - it should be able to handle and .22 lr factory cartridges currently offered. They (the SPORTSMAN pieces of that era) make good plinking, back packing, camping, and informal target shooting guns. Some are surprisingly accurate - I hope yours falls into this category - only one way to tell for sure - take it out to the range and enjoy. They don't make 'em anymore.

[dbeers02]

Got a chance to disassmble the gun. Here is a pick of what I was talking about.
In the cylinder, there is a small hole and a small "tit". On the action wheel, there is a small hole the "tit" lines up with.
When you push the ejector rod to release the cartridges, it only rises about 1/8 inch or so.
I thought there was a problem with it not coming up far enough to free the spent catridges,but there is actually a step on the ejector pin that will not allow it to come up farther. It would appear that this is built into the ejector rod so that when you push the rod to eject the cartridges, the cartridge wheel does not fully rise above the locating "tit" allowing it to spin and get out of alignment with the rest of the cylinder

[Jim Hauff]

dbeers,
Haven't forgotten about this "item"...I'm doing some research and contemplation. I'll be back.

[BobVa]

Jim:

Well....just scored another H&R .... model 903 ... pictures attached .... $225 with original box.

Appreciate any help in dating and comments on this one.

[BobVa]

One more pic

[jamesjo]

BobVa,
AX prefix = 1981 manufacture.
Nice revolver, I need the same one, only with a AU prefix! ( 1980 )

[Jim Hauff]

BobVA,
in re: your Model 903. This model was in production from sometime in 1980 until 1983. It was based upon the, then, NEW 800 series of heavy frame, swing-out cylinder, DA/SA revolvers with a fully adjustable rear sight and a raised, separate, barrel rib with ramped front sight. The 903 was intended as the replacement for the older design Model 939 target revolver. The 903 was, from my observations, apparently not very popular or too costly at the time of production, as not many examples come to view, today. This design was carried over to the NEF and then H&R 1871 handguns after the demise of the original H&R Arms Co./Inc. in early 1986.
Current RETAIL value is somewhat speculative as I've not seen many sold and have limited pricing - but it seems reasonable that top of the line examples should sell in the $225 - $250 range (or more depending upon the area) down to a low of around $100 for one in fair condition.

[BobVa]

As always Jim thanks for your feedback. Looks like I stumbled upon another collectable at a good price.