One handgun

[TranterUK]

Because of concealment, you're only able to carry one handgun. You're walking into a situation with possibly three or four assailants, within a building. You are pretending to be Mr Ordinary unaware citizen. Object to get up close, observe and report on location and condition of suspects. If required however, to engage. Clear enough?

Your boss says, which handgun do you want to carry? I know what I would choose, a 1911A1 in condition 1, with two extra magazines. Any one disagree?

[CampingJosh]

I wouldn't take a 1911, but that's just because it's not what I'm used to. I've never had one.

I would probably take a Sig 226 or 229. The 226 feels better in my hands (better balance), but the 229 carries a little better.
I'm comfortable with any of the 3 calibers this comes in, but I would certainly have an extra mag or two.

I can't imagine I'd go without a knife, too, though.

[Haligan]

I would prefer 40 s & w with a double stack mag. The knock down power between the 45 acp and the 40 is not that different and because I have average size hands a double stack mag for 45 acp is out. One extra mag would be more appropriate for my shoulder rig.

Either way I would not like to be a bad guy in this situation.

[delta13soultaker]

Yeah 1911A1. No less than 8 mags. And I wouldn't go in unless my partners with M16's and Mossber 500's are set in overwatch.

[USMC-03]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

Yeah 1911A1. No less than 8 mags. And I wouldn't go in unless my partners with M16's and Mossber 500's are set in overwatch.

I'll echo Delta, except my S&W 645 is my first choice and my overwatch would be armed with something is 7.62N or similar as circumstances dictate.

Hey Delta, I'll see your eight mags and raise you a couple... And a ballistics vest if I can get one.

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by USMC-03

I'll echo Delta, except my S&W 645 is my first choice and my overwatch would be armed with something is 7.62N or similar as circumstances dictate.

Hey Delta, I'll see your eight mags and raise you a couple... And a ballistics vest if I can get one.

Yup. No overwatch...no go. Alone against 4 enemies is insane. I got caught about 50 seconds by myself in an alley with 3 enemies. All rifles. Two of us ran out alive....I bled about a pint from that and it was total timing circumstance that it wasn't just the other guy who left that alley.

+10 on the body armor! Better to sweat on kevlar than bleed on pavement.

p.s. If you have to go alone against 3-4 enemies...get a new line of work

[Pistolenschutze]

Given the specific parameters Tranter set for this scenario, definitely a 1911 pattern auto pistol in .45 ACP, one I knew from experience I could rely upon without question. Concealability is not a factor here, firepower is. I must, however, also echo wholeheartedly the sentiments of Delta and USMC. I don't like those odds at all, and if I had to face them, I would sure as hell rather have a semi-automatic rifle or a scattergun than any pistol ever designed, including the venerable 1911. To be honest, if I had my druthers, I would just as soon call in arty or an air strike on the whole building and clean up the body parts later. There are old soldiers and there are bold soldiers, but there are damn few old, bold soldiers!

[swanshot]

Now I can't comment on this one because of a lack of experience with handguns, but don't ya reckon one of those little auto pistols/submahcine guns that they love so much in the movies? You know the ones the baddies always have that fire about 3000/min If ya didn't get em, you'd sure as hell scare the crap out of em.

[TranterUK]

Just for the record I have been as specific as possible to force members into a clear decision. The situation I outlined was a real one that happened, though it was a small public park not a building. Keep in mind the object was not to engage, it was to observe and report back. Engage only if required. This might become necessary if for example citizens were seen to be in immediate and mortal danger.

[user]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

Because of concealment, you're only able to carry one handgun. You're walking into a situation with possibly three or four assailants, within a building. You are pretending to be Mr Ordinary unaware citizen. Object to get up close, observe and report on location and condition of suspects. If required however, to engage. Clear enough?

Your boss says, which handgun do you want to carry? I know what I would choose, a 1911A1 in condition 1, with two extra magazines. Any one disagree?

This reminds me of the standard syllogism taught in the first-year course in logic: "Max is a cat; all cats are green; therefore Max is green." It's used to teach the difference between logical truth and semantic truth.

The bad premise in this one is "Because of concealment, you're only able to carry one handgun." In this scenario, you have pretty good information about what's in there, it's not like a trip to the grocery store. So I'd want to know in advance what cover is available, and where it is, and have three guns with me. I don't see that as inconsistent with the concealed-weapon "dumb tourist" approach, especially if you carry a distraction, such as a large complicated-looking camera (which could be useful in carrying out the objective of the mission).

I think in this scenario, I'd have a couple of Sig P226 DAK's with me, either in a shoulder holster or on either hip, with Mec Gar 17 round magazines loaded with 9mm Federal +P HST; and also a Kahr PM9 with the 7 round magazine on the right ankle. I'm assuming an appropriate sports jacket or such, and the existence of some cover somewhere, otherwise you'll never have a chance to reload. Of course you'll need about four spare magazines for the 226's. I wouldn't bother with spares for the Kahr, that's for desperate circumstances only. This, of course, assumes a person who can shoot effectively with either hand.

Also, I'd want the 226's equipped with CT Lasergrips.

"Low bid" is not the only possible explanation for why the Homeland Security Dept. recently ordered a gazillion of that model gun.

The more I read about people who love .45's the more I think I don't see that as a realistic option for myself. Now, these people who love them are obviously in possession of a great deal more expertise than me in actually working a gun, but I don't think I'd be able to calculate a point of impact in my head given a highly variable target distance, since the trajectory of a .45 bullet follows such a relatively steep arc. And also, I'm not sure I'd be able to get my aim back quickly enough, given the recoil. I'd rather have a much larger number of more powerful but lighter bullets (i.e., relatively flat trajectory over twenty yards or so). And, in my proposed equipment described above, I'd have at least 112 rounds with me, and forty-four of those would be already loaded and ready to go.

[Ursus]

P-O 16.40

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

Just for the record I have been as specific as possible to force members into a clear decision. The situation I outlined was a real one that happened, though it was a small public park not a building. Keep in mind the object was not to engage, it was to observe and report back. Engage only if required. This might become necessary if for example citizens were seen to be in immediate and mortal danger.

Yup, it seemed from your wording that your intent was to pin down the type and caliber of handgun one might best choose for a possible encounter with multiple opponents. But you know, Tranter, if danger was that imminent, a weapon such as an MP5 or an UZI could be concealed under a lose jacket almost as easily as a handgun. Also, you do not specify what kind of opponents are to be faced in this scenario. Are they well trained personnel, or merely street toughs? Big difference there, old chap.

[TranterUK]

Good grief.

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

Just for the record I have been as specific as possible to force members into a clear decision. The situation I outlined was a real one that happened, though it was a small public park not a building. Keep in mind the object was not to engage, it was to observe and report back. Engage only if required. This might become necessary if for example citizens were seen to be in immediate and mortal danger.

Based on that, forced to chose 1 handgun and working alone, I'd still feel personally best armed with a 1911A1 .45ACP. Knowing up to 4 threats may be present I would still carry a large amount of magazines.

Based on this:

Very familiar with 1911
Extremely simple to correct malfunctions
Best combat handgun caliber ever produced

Unless one of the threats was carrying a hunting revolver or SMG, a 1911A1provides more effective standoff distance than most other smaller carry handguns.

If I couldn't have a 1911, I'd be okay with a service size Glock or Sig or H&K, M9, CZ75, or Hi-Power, simply based on training/experience with them. I'd add an XD if I had any training with any besides just rec shooting a few.

[Pistolenschutze]

Well Delta, you could always compromise with a nice H&K MP10. If that's not enough fire power, then it is REALLY time to call in a fire mission to arty.

[Vladimir]

Easy, an A-10 and/or tactical nuclear devices.

Originally Posted by TranterUK

Good grief.

My sentiments exactly.

Following your implied rules, using my powers of deduction...

Easy... my H&K USPc 9mm, and that is why I bought it. My accuracy isn't the best (my bullets hit the target, but it might not be an eye-shot), but the gun is a workhorse that will get the job done reliably, and offers an awful lot to experienced shooters and new ones alike.

That is why I carry it every day.

[noslolo]

I would have to go with my Taurus 99 and my three magazines, but that is only because that is the firearm that carries the most bang for the buck, I would prefer to have an AR, FAL, or AK in that situation. But I don't so 46 rounds of 9mm would have to do.

[user]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

...Very familiar with 1911
...

Now, there's a good reason!