Why Does Anyone Think The GOP Supports The 2nd Amendment?

[Marlin T]

Alva, it sounds like you would fit in in France or some other socialist state just fine. China maybe.

I bet we could take up a collection if needed.

[alvagoldbook]

Originally Posted by satellite66

Goldbook you don't seem to grasp the concept that the Geneva conventions as originally written did not give them to those who did not fight for a nations army. As I see it my life is threatened by terrorists and my liberty is being threatened by liberals.
Read my signature.

Satellite, yes, the Geneva Conventions were originally written to pertain to those fighting for a nation-state. Terrorists (for the most part) do not. That doesn't make terrorists more of a threat. That makes them LESS of a threat. The terrorists we're worried about are a bunch of yahoos in caves who can't even put enough change together for indoor plumbing. This is probably why they're so angry in the first place.

One of my favorite statistics I've ever read is that the likelihood of you dying from a terrorist is less than the likelihood of you getting cancer, getting hit by lightning, dying in a car accident, or committing suicide. Statistically speaking you pose a greater threat to your life than terrorists do. Why should you have a fear of a bunch of cretins half way across the globe who scream about infidels, but don't have a pot to piss in?

I don't have a fear of terrorists. I could care less about them. I would never think of them if the media didn't bring it up. I would wager I would have more reason to then you do. I live in northern Virginia. You know what else is in northern Virginia? The Pentagon. It's a 20 minute drive from me. My wife walks past the Pentagon every day going to work to get into the subway. On 9-11 I thought she was dead. I know people who lost loved ones on that day who live in my neighborhood. If I don't have a fear of terrorists you shouldn't either.

You feel that liberals are threatening your liberty. I can understand that. I would certainly agree with you to some degree. But since a certain Republican has been in office, we've seen "free speech zones" pop up. Is that not a threat to your 1st amendment rights? We've seen Telecom spying. Is that not a threat to your 4th amendment rights? We've had people that we've been told are terrorists (are they terrorists?) who have been tortured into admitting to committing a crime, and then had that used against them in a court of law. Is that not a threat to your 5th amendment rights? We've had people held for years on end without even being given a trial, some as young as 14 years old. Is that not a threat to your 6th amendment rights?

Government is a system by which people are given positions that make them more powerful than the average joe. And power corrupts. Liberal, conservative, it makes no difference. Both are human, and are just as easily seduced by power, and end up threating your liberty.

[alvagoldbook]

Originally Posted by ponycar17

And to the financial and economic concerns, it's never clicked with me why Democrats only believe supply and demand theory works when it's in their favor. After all, just in the past week after Bush lifted the ban on offshore drilling, the price of oil dropped by over 10%. This follows economic theory perfectly, as an increase in supply means a decrease in scarcity of goods... With that said, why does (seemingly, at least) the entire Democrat party assert that there is no short-term fix for oil prices?... Does economics not work on their home planet?

Pony, you realize that there has been no off shore drilling done in decades. When Bush lifted the ban, it did nothing. There was both a executive order banning offshore drilling, and it was also made illegal by Congress. Congress hasn't legalized it yet, and no new oil has been drilled along our shores.

Even if Congress legalized it, it would take decades for that oil to get put into the WORLD MARKET supply. Right now US energy companies are sitting on US oil that they won't drill, and that's stuff that's still in Texas, Oklahoma, and dozen other places. They have no reason to drill. Why would a companies voluntarily increase the supply in oil? To cut it's price and lower it's profits?

The reason why oil recently went down is because demand has gone down. This time of summer people start to go on vacation and productivity slows down. Given the credit crunch and the state of the economy, people are learning to buy less and less gas. There's likely also a lot of market manipulation going on too. But offshore drilling has ZERO to do with the price of oil.

[alvagoldbook]

Originally Posted by Marlin T

Alva, it sounds like you would fit in in France or some other socialist state just fine. China maybe.

I bet we could take up a collection if needed.

I would appreciate that, but I plan on visiting Europe next spring on business anyway. China is more laissez faire these days.

...by the way....did you know that George Washington called himself a liberal?

[Xaiver56]

Originally Posted by alvagoldbook

But offshore drilling has ZERO to do with the price of oil.

I beg to disagree. First let me say that I have followed this thread and I think you are an intelligent person so I disagree but with respect. The price of oil is impacted by supply and demand, as well as oil speculators. If supply increases then the price goes down, also if the precieved supply of oil increase then the speculators simmer down on price so to speak. And I also know that it would take years after the drilling begins for us to see a benefit but do we really want to be sitting here 5 years from now going "wow I wish we drilled for oil 5 years ago!"

As to alternative energy sources, well I have many thoughts on that, but do you think we can change our whole infrastructure in a couple of years... the answer is no..

Just my 2 cents worth...

[satellite66]

Yahoos in caves that managed to kill 3000 Americans in one day. Its people like you who make it possible for that kind of thing to happen. Pretending they are not a threat or that they can be reasoned with. I was right your nothing but a left wing talking point generator. Why don't you go to the Daily KOS or dem underground and spew your nonsense?

[ponycar17]

Originally Posted by alvagoldbook

When Bush lifted the ban, it did nothing.

If you believe that global oil supply speculation is the reason for the current price of oil, then the symbolic lifting of the ban by the Bush administration does a lot, in the short term... Speculators in the oil commodities market were relying on the uncertainty about oil supply in the short-term for their decision making. Even the hint that supply is not as tight as previously thought sends speculators into a selling mode.

Originally Posted by alvagoldbook

The reason why oil recently went down is because demand has gone down. This time of summer people start to go on vacation and productivity slows down.

OK, so I'm not following this one... Oil prices decreased because people are going on vacation? Usually prices increase around vacation time, as travelers' elasticity of demand decreases and they're going to buy at whatever price is asked... Sorry, that just doesn't make sense to me...

[armedandsafe]

Even if Congress legalized it, it would take decades for that oil to get put into the WORLD MARKET supply.

"Daddy, can we go to Disneyland?"
"No. Even if we left now, we wouldn't get there until tomorrow."
"HUH?"

Pops

[alvagoldbook]

Originally Posted by Xaiver56

I beg to disagree. First let me say that I have followed this thread and I think you are an intelligent person so I disagree but with respect. The price of oil is impacted by supply and demand, as well as oil speculators. If supply increases then the price goes down, also if the precieved supply of oil increase then the speculators simmer down on price so to speak. And I also know that it would take years after the drilling begins for us to see a benefit but do we really want to be sitting here 5 years from now going "wow I wish we drilled for oil 5 years ago!"

As to alternative energy sources, well I have many thoughts on that, but do you think we can change our whole infrastructure in a couple of years... the answer is no..

Just my 2 cents worth...

There's a lot of talk about oil speculators bidding up the price of oil. We should note that the oil futures market is different from the price of oil right now. They are, for the most part, different entities. Most of the increase at the pump has been the manipulation of oil supply and inflation. That manipulation might just be so oil executives can make more money, or it might be them trying to limit supply in order to stay in business farther into the future. I suppose that depends on your viewpoint.

Alternative energy would be a wonderful thing to invest in, as it could create an economic boom that would make the dot.com boom of the 1990's look like peanuts. Just switching over to electric autos would require minimal infrastructure changes if done correctly, and fuel would cost the equivolent of 18 cents a gallon, with cars getting 128 miles to the gallon.

Germany, which gets far less sun light than even Minnesota does, plans to be 100% energy independent in 12 years. They have solar panels on almost every home, and excess unused energy can be sold by the homeowner back into the grid, with the homeowner getting a nice paycheck just for saving their energy. I read somewhere that just 1 solar panel 2 miles wide sitting in the mohave desert could power the entire south western United States.

Just as centralized government threatens the liberty of it's citizens, centralized energy threatens the independence of energy consumers. We need massive de-centralized energy, that is produced at a house to house level. If everyone has it, there would be no worries about a few companies bidding up the price.

[alvagoldbook]

Originally Posted by satellite66

Yahoos in caves that managed to kill 3000 Americans in one day. Its people like you who make it possible for that kind of thing to happen. Pretending they are not a threat or that they can be reasoned with. I was right your nothing but a left wing talking point generator. Why don't you go to the Daily KOS or dem underground and spew your nonsense?

Yes, 9-11 happened. A lot of people died. It's sad, depressing, and makes most Americans, myself included, angry. The CIA calls it something too. They call it "blow back". You can't blow people up, and their families, and have them say they love you. If Muslims in the third world had a roof over their head, clothes to wear, and food to eat, would they blow themselves up just to kill a couple of Americans occupying their land? Not likely. Try to find an American, it doesn't matter if they're liberal or conservative, socialist or fascist, insane or reasoned, who is happy with their government. Good luck finding one. Then try to find a single American who's willing to blow themselves up in order to kill a couple congressmen. Again, good luck.

As angry as Americans are with their government, they wouldn't commit suicide in order to send it a message. The reason is that Americans (or at least most Americans) have food in the kitchen, a roof over their heads, clothes on their backs, and even radio, TV, and the internet to keep them entertained. What do Muslims in the 3rd world have? They got nothing. Nothing but their own misery and resentment. What kind of freaking life is that?

No one needs to reason with a Muslim. I wouldn't even bother. Just give that guy a roof over his head, food in his stomach, clothes on his back, and something to allow him to be distracted from his misery. Before you know it, he isn't miserable anymore. Within a few decades he or his offspring won't be a MUSLIM anymore either.

We shouldn't be dropping bombs on the Middle East. We should be turning the Middle East into an economically developed paradise. Seen any pictures of what's been going on in Dubai in the last 10 years? That is the solution to terrorism.

[graehaven]

Originally Posted by alvagoldbook

...by the way....did you know that George Washington called himself a liberal?

Yes, he did. But the word had a completely different meaning then, than now. And, if he were alive today, he'd kick your backside into next week.

It's demeaning and offensive to equate a liberal of today with any forefather.

You're trolling, plain and simple. You should be deleted.

[graehaven]

Originally Posted by alvagoldbook

Yes, 9-11 happened. A lot of people died. It's sad, depressing, and makes most Americans, myself included, angry. The CIA calls it something too. They call it "blow back". You can't blow people up, and their families, and have them say they love you. If Muslims in the third world had a roof over their head, clothes to wear, and food to eat, would they blow themselves up just to kill a couple of Americans occupying their land? Not likely. Try to find an American, it doesn't matter if they're liberal or conservative, socialist or fascist, insane or reasoned, who is happy with their government. Good luck finding one. Then try to find a single American who's willing to blow themselves up in order to kill a couple congressmen. Again, good luck.

As angry as Americans are with their government, they wouldn't commit suicide in order to send it a message. The reason is that Americans (or at least most Americans) have food in the kitchen, a roof over their heads, clothes on their backs, and even radio, TV, and the internet to keep them entertained. What do Muslims in the 3rd world have? They got nothing. Nothing but their own misery and resentment. What kind of freaking life is that?

No one needs to reason with a Muslim. I wouldn't even bother. Just give that guy a roof over his head, food in his stomach, clothes on his back, and something to allow him to be distracted from his misery. Before you know it, he isn't miserable anymore. Within a few decades he or his offspring won't be a MUSLIM anymore either.

We shouldn't be dropping bombs on the Middle East. We should be turning the Middle East into an economically developed paradise. Seen any pictures of what's been going on in Dubai in the last 10 years? That is the solution to terrorism.

Holy crap! What color is the sky in your world? I get this kind of reasoning from my 12 year old. This is ridiculous, and doesn't warrant more of a reply.

[Marlin T]

Originally Posted by alvagoldbook

If Muslims in the third world had a roof over their head, clothes to wear, and food to eat, would they blow themselves up just to kill a couple of Americans occupying their land? Not likely.

Man you are clueless, you really should find and then read the Hamas charter. That is just for starters.

I could post pages of articles and news reports and interviews with those jihadists that would show how wrong you really are but I can tell it would be a waste of my time to do so.

I hope you and ilk like france enough that you don't come back.

This will be the last time I ever respond to the true enemy of our Republic, and that would be you Alva.

[noslolo]

As far as Bush had control in New Orleans..... Smells like a troll..... sounds like a troll.... why it might be a.......

[satellite66]

As I said before his posts seem to be agenda driven. They mirror DNC and media talking points. You got to love election season.

[graehaven]

And the issue is not that we don't think you're (alva) entitled to you opinion or should not be allowed to express it. But the key is, you're (as all of us are) entitled to an INFORMED opinion. The problem arises when, through logical argument and common sense reasoning, and presentation of facts, liberal arguments are shown to be senseless, those that espouse them religiously hold to those views in an insane manner.......as illustrated in this thread.

That's where I have a problem with the continuation of this thread. I've seen guys in other forums banned for less. When it seems as though the only reason for being here is to incite others, to stir up trouble, then, DELETE.

And, oh, by the way, I'm not concerned with terrorists as much as others are. I would like for us to PAVE the offending countries in the middle east, just after we pull our soldiers out. Seven years later, after the bulk of the radiation dissipates, we can go back in and pump the oil. That's right, I think that all that sand should be turned into a big field of glass!

You wanna know how to take care of possible terrorist threats here, from those that might already be here? I'd round up EVERY muslim and ship 'em back to the old country, since they're so fond of it. But since we can't even do that with illegal Mexicans, it won't happen. And before anyone else jumps all over me about American citizens and their rights to religion, do your research on Islam first. Realize that muslims, although American, are American in name only. They're first allegiance is to their religion, not our country. That's why almost none of them (even the so-called moderates) are speaking out against what their religion is perpetrating here and in Europe. They hate America, even while partaking from it, and given the chance, would choose to kill you before turning from Islam. That's what we're dealing with.

I'm more concerned about fascist thinkers in this country, like you, who are prepared to sell us down the river, and have been, piece by piece, for decades. Party affiliation and labels (liberal) are virtually meaningless at this point.

Show me a strict constitutionalist, and I'll vote for them EVERY time. Unfortunately, I'll have to do a "write-in" on this election's ballot, because the other two choices take us toward the fall of our country.

[armedandsafe]

So far, I'm pretty proud of you all in this thread. The discourse has been relativly civil and on topic. However, I'm beginning to see a bit of heat boiling up and would like to remind everybody that civility and decorum are what keep a thread open and rancorous name calling is what gets a thread shut down.

Keep up the good work, please.

Pops

[carver]

Originally Posted by alvagoldbook

Why does anyone believe that the Republican party supports your 2nd Amendment rights? Why does anyone believe that liberals want to confiscate your guns? When was the last time a liberal confiscated your gun?

Now lets go back just 3 years ago. The summer of 2005. Hurricane Katrina had hit New Orleans. And what happened under George Bush's leadership? Gun confiscation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kKeYXYjq8c

Can you remember as far back as 1991, when Bill Clinton was in office????

[graehaven]

Originally Posted by armedandsafe

So far, I'm pretty proud of you all in this thread. The discourse has been relativly civil and on topic. However, I'm beginning to see a bit of heat boiling up and would like to remind everybody that civility and decorum are what keep a thread open and rancorous name calling is what gets a thread shut down.

Keep up the good work, please.

Pops

That's fine. I'll stop posting. I just can't stand it when someone continually is allowed to post when, demonstrably they're posting errancies couched as opinion. That's just maddening. Politicians do it, the media does it, and flat out lying liberals do it, and it ticks me off. I expected better here.

This guy is typical in spouting circular reasoned, doublespoken bullcrap, and when his points are debunked by others (and easily i might add), he simply goes off on another tangent. Absolutely ridiculous.

[Marlin T]

Graehaven, I didn't take away that Pops was directing his post at you, and I don't think he was. (if anything, it was mild finger point at me. Sorry, but sometimes what I have to say is really hard say tactfully. But it still needs to be said.)

But, that is besides the point. The reason that I'm posting is because what you wrote in post #66. I would like to thank you, and possibly send congrats your way for actually, 'Getting it'.

I thought your comment about being banned at those liberal leaning sites was pretty funny, as I have been banned for saying a lot less than this self-proclaimed Commie has. So if anything, I’m proud of the Mods here for not kicking him off of this site. Good job gents!
But I’m serious when I say that he and those like him are the real enemy of this country and everything this country was founded on. This country didn’t want socialism then, and I’m dead set against it now.

[Prizefighter]

Yes, these are statistics, and yes, everyone gets sick of seeing them, but I heard them mentioned on a radio show tonight, and went looking for some literature. I thought it was relevant to some of the comments made with regard to "pacifying" muslims.


Radical Islam gains ground in campuses
Poll attacked over claim that a third of Muslim students think killing in the name of religion is justified and 40 per cent support sharia law in the UK
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...ighereducation
The highlight of this article is that, according to the poll, roughly a third of muslim college students in the UK believe that killing in the name of religion is justified, among some other pretty reprehensible things involving islamic law and the world. Of course, the poll has been accused of being flawed and skewed, and maybe it is. But, it's worthwhile to note that the findings would line up with various reports, videos, and even quotes that come out of muslim groups and nations.

As I understand it, these are muslims which England opened her doors to. They have food, clothes, and rooves to say the least, but the report at least suggests that isn't enough.

On a related note, I found this site which has parts of a Fox News special on "honor killings" in America. The videos are hosted by YouTube, but all five have been embedded on this single page for easy viewing.
http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/...onor-killings/
Maybe these folks need more food? Somebody get them to a buffet already.

No, I don't think all muslims are bent on killing "infidels". But the ones that are won't be pacified. And some of the folks from the left would do well to note something: If, God Almighty forbid, the U.S. ever fell under islamic law, the lefties would be the first to go.

[jimlay]

Forget BUSH! I want some of what alvagoldbook as been smoking!

[LizardKing]

Originally Posted by Marlin T

But I’m serious when I say that he and those like him are the real enemy of this country and everything this country was founded on. This country didn’t want socialism then, and I’m dead set against it now.

Glad to know that other people feel this way too.
The other side (liberals/socialists/commies/hippies) all declare "our kind" as the enemy and fight us every chance they get. but when we do the same the crying starts.
Racist!
Neanderthal!
Nazi!

These people ARE domestic enemies of everything American and need to be fought hard before they do MORE damage.
Look at how the US has changed since WWII.
Are we better off?
Outsourcing, radical social change, liberal courts, rampant illegal immigration, shrinking middle class, crime rates out of control, and all the rest are the direct result of work of these people.
The US is on a fast path to third world status and I say the commies/hippies/liberals/"environmentalists" should not be tolerated and given the same rights they seek to take from US!


regards,
TheLiz

[carver]

[QUOTE=alvagoldbook;337460]If Muslims in the third world had a roof over their head, clothes to wear, and food to eat, would they blow themselves up just to kill a couple of Americans occupying their land? Not likely.
What do Muslims in the 3rd world have? They got nothing. Nothing but their own misery and resentment. What kind of freaking life is that?

Just give that guy a roof over his head, food in his stomach, clothes on his back, and something to allow him to be distracted from his misery. Before you know it, he isn't miserable anymore. Within a few decades he or his offspring won't be a MUSLIM anymore either.

Do you really believe what you posted? You don't have a clue why Muslims are doing the things they are doing? I don't think you're a stupid person, just uninformed! Read something about the religion that drives these people. Did you know that at one time the Muslim empire was greater than that of the Roman empire? These people are not a bunch of backwoods hicks that live in caves, as has been stated in this thread. Their society has been around nearly ten times longer than ours, there's a reason for that! They have contributed more to the world of engineering than you could imagine! They believe in their religion, while we don't, and that make a lot of difference. They are willing to die for what they believe, are you? You think they are barbaric because they cut off the heads of their "enemies". Read the Quran. Learn just what it is that you are talking about. Read some history! They are a proud people with a very long and extensive history.
A history that is filled with heroes, inventions, mathematics, advances in medicine, and so much more. Do not underestimate these people. Those in the past that did usually wound up being ruled be them. Let History teach us. Let our belief's lead us. Let America Bless God!

[carver]

Originally Posted by alvagoldbook

Yes, 9-11 happened. A lot of people died. It's sad, depressing, and makes most Americans, myself included, angry. The CIA calls it something too. They call it "blow back". You can't blow people up, and their families, and have them say they love you. If Muslims in the third world had a roof over their head, clothes to wear, and food to eat, would they blow themselves up just to kill a couple of Americans occupying their land? Not likely. Try to find an American, it doesn't matter if they're liberal or conservative, socialist or fascist, insane or reasoned, who is happy with their government. Good luck finding one. Then try to find a single American who's willing to blow themselves up in order to kill a couple congressmen. Again, good luck.

As angry as Americans are with their government, they wouldn't commit suicide in order to send it a message. The reason is that Americans (or at least most Americans) have food in the kitchen, a roof over their heads, clothes on their backs, and even radio, TV, and the internet to keep them entertained. What do Muslims in the 3rd world have? They got nothing. Nothing but their own misery and resentment. What kind of freaking life is that?

No one needs to reason with a Muslim. I wouldn't even bother. Just give that guy a roof over his head, food in his stomach, clothes on his back, and something to allow him to be distracted from his misery. Before you know it, he isn't miserable anymore. Within a few decades he or his offspring won't be a MUSLIM anymore either.

We shouldn't be dropping bombs on the Middle East. We should be turning the Middle East into an economically developed paradise. Seen any pictures of what's been going on in Dubai in the last 10 years? That is the solution to terrorism.

Do you really believe what you posted? You don't have a clue why Muslims are doing the things they are doing? I don't think you're a stupid person, just uninformed! Read something about the religion that drives these people. Did you know that at one time the Muslim empire was greater than that of the Roman empire? These people are not a bunch of backwoods hicks that live in caves, as has been stated in this thread. Their society has been around nearly ten times longer than ours, there's a reason for that! They have contributed more to the world of engineering than you could imagine! They believe in their religion, while we don't, and that makes a lot of difference. They are willing to die for what they believe, are you? You think they are barbaric because they cut off the heads of their "enemies". Read the Quran. Learn just what it is that you are talking about. Read some history! They are a proud people with a very long and extensive history.
A history that is filled with heroes, inventions, mathematics, advances in medicine, and so much more. Do not underestimate these people. Those in the past that did usually wound up being ruled be them. The Russians probably thought about the Muslim people simular to the way you do, look what happed to them when they went into Afganistan! Let History teach us. Let our belief's lead us, and most of all let America Bless God!