40SW or 357sig

[Shellback]

I have been set up for 40sw for quite some time now and load 1000's of rounds, I have absolutly no experience with the 357sig round, I am thinking of trying this round and would like some input from you shooters that have shot both? And some info on loading that round. I do love the universal clays powder I use it to load 12 gauge too. How many of you have used this powder and what are your thoughts on it. What are your guys favorite powder and why? You all are a treasure trove of info on here and I have been reading your posts lately and enjoying them.
Thank you
Tim

[JLA]

the .357 sig is essentially a .40 smith case necked to accept a 9mm bullet, with ballistic performance rivaling the all but dead 10mm automatic. i have had the chance to test this cartridge, accuracy is good, muzzle blast is excessive (like a .357 mag from a 3 inch bbl), recoil is very manageable. overall the cartridge is a pretty neat concept, but really hasnt much to offer over already available cartridges in the industry. and may end up as just another odd curiosity over the next few years...

[Haligan]

Hey JLA,

That's a bottleneck cartridge right?

Do you have to size it like a rifle case? (with lube and all?)

[JLA]

not necessarily, lee precision offers carbide dies for it, as does many other manufacturers, but lee is by far the most economical....

[kevinleif37]

my father's beretta is in 40 S/W and i've shot the 40 through the H&K USP Comp also

the issued round/cal of the agency i worked for was the SIG

i've shot thousands of rounds in each cal...

the 40 ain't bad, and i understand why it's preferred: bigger then the 9mm, more manageable then the 45...

the SIG packs more recoil then the 40, however the ballistics are awesome-glass penetration, etc, and it's expensive, but it's very effctive out to 50 yards, more then the 40 or any other cal

i'd choose the SIG over the 40, as a matter of fact, when it comes to semi auto's, i'd say the SIG over the 9mm, and the 45 over the 40, and this comes after my thousands of rounds of experience with 9mm, 357 SIG, 40 SW , 45ACP, and even 50AE.

[h2oking]

I have a 40 Glock that I bought an after market 357 sig barrel for and I like it. It is factory loaded at much higher pressures like the 10mm and 38 super. The recoil isn't bad at all but it sounds like a bomb going off with a lot of muzzle blast just as JLA says. If you are intersted in buying a barrel drop me a note and I will send you the info. The guy that makes them has a machine shop and not a gun shop and he is here in my town. The quality is next to none as you cannot see any machine marks with a naked eye on the lans or groves and the fit is perfect. I bought dies and I have brass but thus far I haven't loaded for it only shooting factories so I can't help you with data.

[Shellback]

This is some info I have found on the load. Kevinleif 37 thank you for that info that is what I needed to hear..
Loads for .357 Sig:
(Note: These ARE MAXIMUM loads, you should use 10% less to start.)
(See note on Powders below or read all about various Powders.)
Bullet size is .355" (9mm)(jacketed) in diameter. Use a .356" for lead bullets. Federal is using true 9mm and not .38 or .357" diameter. Due to different barrel lengths, type of bullet, seating depth, primer type and other factors, you may not get near the FPS charted. It is just a guide and the reason you should start under these charges and work up.

This is a new cartridige. Here is what the people at Accurate Arms Powder Company say about the round: "Inquiries led us to Federal Cartridge, who, at the time was the sole source of ammo for the .357 Sig. We learned that .357 Sig is basically the .40 S&W cartridge necked down to take 9mm bullets. This cartridge was developed specifically for the law enforcement market. It was intended to duplicate the ballistics of the highly regarded 125 Grain JHP .357 Magnum load as fired in a 4" barrel revolver. This, the .357 Sig basically does.

Reports from the field praise the accuracy of this round. Our No. 9 has proven to be especially well liked in this regard. This surprised us somewhat as the case is full and even compressed when using No. 9 in some loads. Which just proves that you shouldn't put too much trust into preconcieved notions.

This is without a doubt the most ballistically consistant handgun cartridge we have ever worked with. The standard deviation for every single load developed was less than 10 FPS. The average SD was 5 FPS. This is impressive for any cartridge but especially so for a handgun. The small bottleneck and high working pressure of the round must both contribute to this amazing consistancy, but regardless the results are impressive. If you have any further questions about our propellants please call our customer service department toll free, 1-800-416-3006, 8am-4:30 pm central time."


These are ALL MAXIMUM LOADS: Start at 10% less
and work up! Caution! All Max loads generate
between 36,000 and 39,000 PSI.
Bullet size is .355" (9mm)(jacketed) in diameter.
----------------------------------------
88 grain Speer JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point)
No. 2 7.9 gr. 1,545 FPS
No. 5 11.1 gr. 1,616
No. 7 13.1 gr. 1,601
No. 9 * 15.0 gr. 1,545
* compressed load
----------------------------------------
90 grain Sierra JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point)
Bullseye 9.3 gr. 1,660 FPS
Unique 9.2 gr. 1,615
Power Pistol 11.4 gr. 1,715
HP-38 7.3 gr. 1,509
Universal 7.0 gr. 1,511
HS-6 10.8 gr. 1,634
----------------------------------------
95 grain Sierra FMJ (Full metal jacket)
No. 2 7.6 gr. 1,467 FPS
No. 5 11.0 gr. 1,572
No. 7 13.0 gr. 1,562
No. 9 * 15.0 gr. 1,530*
* compressed load
----------------------------------------
100 grain Hornady FMJ (Full metal jacket)
No. 2 7.3 gr. 1,414 FPS
No. 5 10.5 gr. 1,496
No. 7 12.2 gr. 1,490
No. 9 * 14.5 gr. 1,516*
* compressed load
----------------------------------------
115 grain Lead SWC (.356" dia.)
No. 2 6.2 gr. 1,249 FPS
No. 5 9.0 gr. 1,319
No. 7 11.0 gr. 1,344
No. 9 * 13.5 gr. 1,430*
* compressed load
-----------------------------------------
115 grain XTP or JHP (Speer or Hornady)
Bullseye 8.0 gr. 1,435 FPS
Power Pistol 10.0 gr. 1,510
Universal 6.1 gr. 1,300
HS-6 9.4 gr. 1,412
HS-7 10.6 gr. 1,420
VV N350 8.0 gr. 1,317 (Ala. Ammo Load, Very Nice)
No. 2 6.4 gr. 1,276
No. 5 9.4 gr. 1,354
No. 7 11.3 gr. 1,385
No. 9 * 13.5 gr. 1,434*
WAP** 8.7 gr. 1,400**
* compressed load
** From GUNS Magazine, not Winchester
-----------------------------------------
124 grain XTP or JHP (Speer or Hornady)
Bullseye 7.0 gr. 1,320 FPS (SpeerTMJ)
Power Pistol 9.5 gr. 1,435 (Speer TMJ)
Universal 5.8 gr. 1,235
HS-6 9.0 gr. 1,339 (start with 8.0 gr.)
HS-7 10.2 gr. 1,353
H110 *** 14.0 gr. 1,385 MAX (start with 11.5)
No. 2 6.0 gr. 1,212
No. 5 9.2 gr. 1,325
No. 7 11.0 gr. 1,320 (Start with 9.5 gr.)
No. 9 * 13.0 gr. 1,387*
WAP** 8.1 gr. 1,300** (start with 7.0)
WAP*** 9.5 gr. 1,400 MAX (start with 7.0)
* compressed load
** From GUNS Magazine, not Winchester
*** Guns & Ammo Magazine (Sept. 96)
-----------------------------------------
147 grain Hornady XTP
Bullseye 5.8 gr. 1,145 FPS
Unique * 5.8 gr. 1,110*
Power Pistol 7.8 gr. 1,245
Universal 4.9 gr. 1,062
HS-6 7.6 gr. 1,173
HS-7 8.4 gr. 1,173
H110*** 13.0 gr. 1,250 (MAX (Start at 11.0 gr.))
No. 2 5.3 gr. 1,061
No. 5 7.9 gr. 1,159
No. 7 9.2 gr. 1,160
No. 9 * 10.5 gr. 1,158*
WAP** 6.8 gr. 1,100**
* compressed load
** From GUNS Magazine, not Winchester
*** Guns & Ammo Magazine (Sept. 96)
-----------------------------------------

These are ALL MAXIMUM LOADS: Start at 10% less
and work up!
** Winchester loads from GUNS Magazine, June 1996 issue

Discussion: Bullseye is a fast burning powder and perhaps better suited to the small cases like the 9mm. It burns completely and fast. Unique is a very consistent burning powder and it is almost a tossup with the heavier bullets. Power Pistol is quite a bit slower and favored with Alliant for this magnum load of the .357 Sig.
Accurate Powder supplied extensive data for the round and also prefer the slower burning powders, even down to the No. 9. No.9 are compressed loads in most cases. It showed some of the highest speeds while maintaining some of the lowest pressures. Looking at the data, I would agree, and suggest No. 7 as an alternate, but you certainly can use No. 5 or the fastest No. 2 if you wish.

Universal, HS6, and HS7 are from Hodgdon and similar to Bullseye and Unique. HS7 is slowest of the group and takes quite a bit more powder as does No.9 and Power Pistol.

A bullet with a copper gas check or copper plating is best for INDOOR ranges to keep lead vapors out of the air.



*
Power Pistol, Bullseye, Unique and 2400 are products of Alliant (formerly Hercules) Powders.
Clays, Universal, HP38, HS6 and H4895 are products of Hodgdon Powders.
IMR 3031 and IMR 4895 are products of IMR (formerly DuPont) Powder Company.
No. 2, No. 5, No. 7, No. 9, #2230, and #2460 are products of Accurate Arms Company
WAP (Winchester Action Pistol), WMR, WSF, WSL, 760, 748, 231 and 540 are products of Winchester, Components Div.


References: Accurate Arms Co. 1996 Reloading booklet - - Alliant Powder Co. Reloaders' Guide (1995) - - Hodgdon's Basic Reloaders Manual (1996) - - Speer Reloading Manual, #12 - - Winchester Reloading Components Manual, 14th edition - - Lyman Piston & Revolver Reloading Handbook, 2nd edition. - - VihtaVuori Oy Company, reloading booklet (1995) - - Numerous magazine articles on reloading special calibers and personal loads where noted.

[gandog56]

Originally Posted by JLA

not necessarily, lee precision offers carbide dies for it, as does many other manufacturers, but lee is by far the most economical....

They do?

In order to skip having to lube the darned 357 Sig cases I run them through my carbide .40/10mm carbide sizing die, then the steel 357 Sig sizing die.

But my Sig P229 has both the 40 S&W and 357 Sig barrels. It's fun to switch out at the range. Takes me all of 15 seconds to swap calibers.

[Shellback]

I cannot find 357sig carbide dies for the life of me, everone I have talked to tell me because they are bottle neck cartridges they don't make them. Please enlighten me..
Tim