Listen to This

[sabashimon]

This gentleman makes some very good points

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKFKGrmsBDk

[artabr]

Great video, Shimon. Thanks.


Art

[SaddleSarge]

Yeah, now try and educate the general American populace of the points that were made even if it was right on the money.

I saw this one listed next to it and clicked on it and this one was only 30 seconds, but holy samalians!! did it scare the pajeebers out of me.

Disturbing Video Link

[TranterUK]

Excellent, but are enough people listening?

[alvagoldbook]

I'm sorry, this guy seriously pissed me off, so if you don't mind, I'm going to rant. If you mind, I'm sorry...just don't read what I have to say.

1) Having actually read Thomas Paine, a guy I consider one of my personal heroes, I find this guy pretty insulting.

2) There are dozens of nations that are multicultural. Canada has two national languages, French and English. China has Cantonese and Mandarin. Switzerland has German, French, and Italian. Most African nations have citizens who speak French, English, German and their local languages. Yugoslavia, Russia, India, Iran, and Brazil all have multicultural histories. That’s not to say that I’m in favor of Spanish being included as a national language of the United States. But it wouldn’t hurt anything. By the way…English IS the national language of the USA. Or have we all been speaking Swahili all this time?

3) This country was founded upon diversity. Prior to the Revolution, if you asked Thomas Jefferson what country he came from he would have said he came from Virginia. Each colony was entirely different, with different cultures, peoples, national and ethic origins, and different religions.

4) If you’re not in favor of universal single payer health care then you’re either don’t know the facts, work for an HMO, or you’re a masochist. When getting sick is the number 1 cause of bankruptcy in America while health insurance companies are making record profits, then we’ve got a problem.

5) Our entitlement programs are the only thing on the government books that are in the black. Our infrastructure has been ignored since the Reagan years. It went to waste in order to give the wealthiest one 10th of 1% Americans a 75% tax cut. Then people wonder why we’re 9 trillion dollars in debt. Go figure. If you wanna know why we have bridges that are collapsing all you gotta do is google “Grover Norquist” and “bathtub”.

6) We wouldn’t have illegal aliens here if companies weren’t hiring them. Put the CEOs who hire illegals in jail and dissolve their companies, and you’ll have 20 million illegals running back to Mexico, hoping we haven’t finished working on that Berlin Wall we’re building on the Rio Grande.

7) If you want to protect Israel, then you keep giving money to Egypt. If you want to curb terrorism, then you keep giving money to Egypt. It’s a good investment. We should give more. If you want Israel to have another enemy, then stop giving money to Egypt.

8) We don’t need to import anyone for our high tech industry. Unemployment in the tech field is running at 12% last I looked. The ONLY reason why we give people H1B visas is to pay high tech workers cheaper wages.

9) Jefferson intentionally put the word “Creator” in the Declaration of Independence, so it would not be Christian. This is why the words “Nature’s God” is included as well, as opposed to the “Christian God”. The Constitution expressedly prohibits any law that establishes a religion. That means all public life is to be religion-free. Anything otherwise is a direct violation of the rights of all those who choose not to believe in the particular favored deity. And if you don't think Jefferson was a Deist, pick up a copy of the Jefferson bible.

10) In 1776 the progressives were George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and THOMAS PAINE. The moderates were John Jay, Alexander Hamilton, and John Adams. The people who opposed them were not called traitors. They were called LOYALISTS….as in LOYAL TO THE BRITISH CROWN.

11) The Congressional switch board number used to be 1-866-SOB-U-SOB. Seriously. SOB stood for Senate Office Building. When a progressive talk show host, Thom Hartmann, got people to start calling on a regular basis, they shut it down.

If you think calling your representative is going to do something, keep dreaming. Representative government is an out-moded idea, and it just don’t work no more. The only way to fix things is to form a direct democracy to keep the representative government in check.

Check this out on how to get that done, if you're so inclined.
http://articleeight.blogspot.com

[Terry_P]

Originally Posted by alvagoldbook

I'm sorry, this guy seriously pissed me off

Guess he made too much sense.

Where is it written I need to buy you your healthcare? You also seem to neglect the illegals that are on welfare, food stamps, part of MS-13, involved in identity theft not to mention in prison and in general a drain on the country. Deport them all, make the penalities draconian enough on employers to eliminate illegals at the workplace.

Your point on Jefferson is exactly the point of the video. They didn't wave a mexican flag in a demonstration or speak a foreign language they were american.

[SaddleSarge]

Ahhhhhh, the 'ol number #9 trick.

Not being confrontational or rude, but the idea that Jefferson was agnostic, atheist, non-Christian, etc.... that has been blathered over the years is completely false and his wordings when it came to the "Creator" was specific to the time frame and the revolution that was also taking place in the church.

There was no Church of England, which the founding father's only issue was a 'nation' religion. Research the church of the day and it's dictates vs the revolution of the thinking's and writings of Martin Luther, and you will see a devoutly Christian Jefferson and understand his disdain with the direction that the churches were going.

As far as 'all' public life being Christian free is a fallacy as well.

Socialized health care is "SOCIALISM." Socialism is a pretty name for "COMMUNISM." Let's not mince words here. If people weren't up to their arm pits for all the toys with their A.R.M.S. coming mature, there wouldn't be the problem. Screw'em.

John Adams: More research needed there as well. John Adams was certainly NOT a "moderate." Adams was pushing for revolution for almost a year after Concord and Lexington until the Declaration was finally drafted and adopted. In fact, Adams had pushed so hard in the regards of separation, that when he wanted to propose it in the congress, it was decided that someone else need do it because if Adams proposed, it would have been voted down merely because it was his personal agenda.

Diversity was a basic to the walks of life, bonded by a common language. Not the diversity that the moderns have re-written history and have those thinking that don't know or understand they heritage of this country. The basic pilgrim to the America's was indeed of English decent. The diversity came much later. English was then the language. That is why, especially in the East and especially during the Ellis Island period, is why in New York and other Eastern cities, there were the Pols, Italian, German etc... neighborhoods that came together. Many families, friends and family of mine, strictly forbade that anything BUT english be spoken by the children.

But more importantly, when it comes to government, here is what the representatives and the people have forgotten:

"...That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,..." (It's from a little document that got all of this going.)

I suggest that folks that are interested in the REAL American history, get off of the internet and read the history books that have not been influenced by the re-writing of history.

Or as so eloquently stated by Benjamin Franklin, "If we do not hang together, surely we will all hang separately!"

[Gene Seward]

Well here I go. I don't want to pay for anyone's health care. Get a job and buy your own or get it from your employer. If you want to speak another language at home fine, but speak english when at work or out in public. Don't give a free check to anyone regardless of your race, national origin, or how many kids you spit out while sitting on your ass. As for bankruptcy, don't buy more than you can pay for. Don't think that you can pay for it later, or well I will just file and all will go away. Credit is too easy to get. People piss and moan about they are taking way my car, house, boat, RV, etc., well DA don't buy it. If you can't pay for it then it's not yours. I saw a show yesterday where people were given $10,000 to redo a house so that they might be able to keep it. In the driveway was a dang motorhome that was worth more than I gave for my house. Crap, sell that thing and don't worry. I know I will catch it for this post, but hey, tuff. That is the way I feel. And yes I am from Arkansas and no I did not marry my sister, and no I am not stupid. Redneck, yes I am, but everyone has or should have a little in them. LOL

[delta13soultaker]

First Amendment Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Pretty damn simple.


Health care...we are already paying the bill every time someone without insurance walks into an ER. It either raises the price of medical treatment throughout the hospitals to offset losses which also raises our premiums to offset the higher prices, or gets picked up my local, state, federal assistance to those hospitals...which translates to local, state, federal taxes.

[Big Bore]

I will NOT vote to continue with the same lying,corrupt,country wrecking,draft dodging, my way or the hyway bunch that has had control over things (the "neocons") Look what "the right" did when they had the power to do whatever they wanted. If you can't see it, don't understand it, or don't believe it, then you are a dumbass! Look at a simple line graph that shows the movement of this nation's debt, and one for deficit over time. You will see that the real nose dives (the kind we get stuck with for generations) are during the republican administrations. If you allow yourself to have lies become the truth just because they are repeated over and over, once again, you are a dumb ass. "just drill more and we'll be energy independant" That's the biggy today. BULL!! Get the facts!! AND- a society needs SOME socialism in it! The military is an example(fits the definition),so do non-volunteer fire depts.,police forces, state prisons,state mental health institutions, our national highway system, most city streets and water systems, anything that is "chipped in for" by the masses. If I never drive on the street in front of your house, why do you expect me to give something for its repair? If I choose to never leave my house, why should a dime of my money go to maintain a highway that YOU use? I don't have kids in school, why should I pay for schools, or contribute to colleges? "get off your butt, go to work and pay for your OWN street" Right? I choose to be a fly in the Dem's ointment. Why should "that side" ever listen to those who only harshly ridicule? I don't believe in the divinity of Jesus (BLASPHAMY!),but he was a great teacher who taught THE GOLDEN RULE. I try my best to live by it which makes me a much better Christian than a lot of the "preachers" out there. John M. is on my tube right now, telling me what a great guy Dick Chaney is. Sorry, not to me. I'm NOT a big fan of Obama. I think there were many other choices that were better. I used to like John M., but he has learned he must play the right's game completely in order to get past their primary. I am a "Cold dead hands", English only, as little welfare as posible, "gut shoot 'em at the border", don't run from the cops, too many "special rights already" DEMOCRAT!!! Sorry (not really) to rant, but ignorance can become annoying. "They" are much more likely to listen to me about gun rights than to someone who sounds like they wish "they" would all just die. Show "them" what happened to crime and gun violence in England when handguns were banned. This will be much more productive than sitting back and calling Obama a terrorist. Both partys seem to be f---d-up. I think that the Reps are just as likely to take your firearms as the Dems. The Dems will try to do it thru legislation under the guise of reducing crime or whatever bogus thing. The Reps will claim some national emergency/terrorist threat, whatever. They can have my guns, when I'm dead or I've run out of ammo!!!

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by Big Bore

Both partys seem to be f---d-up. I think that the Reps are just as likely to take your firearms as the Dems. The Dems will try to do it thru legislation under the guise of reducing crime or whatever bogus thing. The Reps will claim some national emergency/terrorist threat, whatever.

Yep. I agree overall with several things you said. It is mostly just common sense, if there is such a thing.


Something that's been on my mind I hate to say....this old arguement about seperation of church from state and how Christianity should be the national religion. Usually it's my observation that the same people who want Christianity inside our government, or associated with it, are often the people against national healthcare, welfare programs, government assistance, etc.

If Christ had any one messege, it was to give to the poor. Everyone knows it too. But that is not what political Christians are saying. Why should they be taken seriously? It's too easy to blame the poor for being poor and make excuses why to keep our money. Christians who do not want to give to the poor? According to Christ you are not among him then. It is written in black and white.

If you are trying to force your religion onto a nation, you should make sure first you are absolutely setting the example first.

For the record, I am against ANY religion being involved with government. And I'm against social programs for a whole list of reasons, including the more you depend on from the government for materials then the more you surrender to that government in the intangibles.

[Terry_P]

Originally Posted by Big Bore

I will NOT vote to continue with the same lying,corrupt,country wrecking,draft dodging, my way or the hyway bunch that has had control over things

OK tell me how that doesn't apply to W. Clinton? Biden? Obama? I can't think of one of those statements that doesn't apply to each.

[SaddleSarge]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

Something that's been on my mind I hate to say....this old arguement about seperation of church from state and how Christianity should be the national religion. Usually it's my observation that the same people who want Christianity inside our government, or associated with it, are often the people against national healthcare, welfare programs, government assistance, etc.

With all respect,

This is where those that don't understand the foundation that was drafted miss the deeper issue and what it is all about. It isn't about a "national" religion which was what was in England....The Church of England. They (the constitutional framers) didn't want to be told what church they could attend.

The concept that God cannot be thanked in a public setting because of being in a school, government office etc.... is absurd and not the intention of the amendment.

To say that Judeo-Christian principles were not at the foundation of this nation is to rely upon the re-writing of history instead of education oneself in the foundations.

[Terry_P]

Originally Posted by SaddleSarge

With all respect,

This is where those that don't understand the foundation that was drafted miss the deeper issue and what it is all about. It isn't about a "national" religion which was what was in England....The Church of England. They (the constitutional framers) didn't want to be told what church they could attend.

The concept that God cannot be thanked in a public setting because of being in a school, government office etc.... is absurd and not the intention of the amendment.

To say that Judeo-Christian principles were not at the foundation of this nation is to rely upon the re-writing of history instead of education oneself in the foundations.

+1

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by SaddleSarge

The concept that God cannot be thanked in a public setting because of being in a school, government office etc.... is absurd and not the intention of the amendment.

Much truth in your post.

About God in public...this is deeper than can be fully explained in a forum. That is an entire book and subject to an arguement with many sides.

The one thing I can say about it that you may agree on is we are a nation mostly divided on the issue by (a) those who are comfortable with God or some higher power in their lives, and (b) those who are not humble enough to want a God or are holding a belief that they are in control and do not need a higher power. Category (b) would be those more likely offended by prayer in public etc etc etc.

I predict this issue will get worse before better. I also believe, well I know, that a people will not be humble enough to let a higher power have control until they are made humble. A century of prospering has made our society far from humble. So here we are; people pissing into the wind and telling each other it's just raining again.

[Marlin T]

Originally Posted by alvagoldbook

I'm sorry, this guy seriously pissed me off, so if you don't mind, I'm going to rant. If you mind, I'm sorry...just don't read what I have to say.

Alva, I DO mind.

I think your problem is that you grew up in the wrong country and during the wrong period.

You should really have grown up living under Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler or any other Tyrant that hated freedom for the general populace, or others that hold the same ideology of Fascism, Marxism, Socialism, Communism & Anti-Capitalism.

Your response to this thread is a great example of why I keep saying that you, and people like you are the true enemy of the United States. You are a traitor to what this country was founded upon, pure and simple.

You know nothing about the “Laws of Nature” or “Natures’ God” as is apparent in you ignorant illogical statements. I have already pointed you to the direction of educational site about the founding of this country, but you chose to remain uneducated.

You and your likeminded friends across the world make me want to projectile vomit all over you.

When you go to France I hope you stay there and bash America and it’s history from afar.

By the way, thank you Sabashimon for the link.

[sabashimon]

Alvagoldbook,

Others here have responded to your wrongheaded post quite admirably, so I will just take the time to address the below quoted statement of yours:

7) If you want to protect Israel, then you keep giving money to Egypt. If you want to curb terrorism, then you keep giving money to Egypt. It’s a good investment. We should give more. If you want Israel to have another enemy, then stop giving money to Egypt.

This thinking is representative of the same old and discredited "Realpolitik" philosophy that has in large part gotten us into the mess we find ourselves in around the worldi, that of supporting dictators/despots in the foolish and dangerous notion that A) it will help us in a geopolitical sense, and B) that they will become our "friends".
Egypt is not our friend. They have been quite reliable in voting against us, and with our enemies in every UN forum. They are most definately not helping to curb terrorism, anymore than is Pakistan or Saudi Arabia, two other countries receiving "friendly" status by our State Department.
In Egypts case, this translates to the sum of almost 2 billion dollars annually of U.S. aid that helps support a country that is verilantly anti-Semitic and anti-American.
Israel also receives huge sums of financial aid from the U.S.
Of course Israel shares the same values as America, consistantly votes with the U.S. in the UN, and shares extremely valuable intelligence with the U.S., including, but not limited to R&D on battle tested armament.
Bottom line: Israel was, is, and always will be a friend to America.
Israelis cried with Americans on Sept. 11, 2001.
Egyptians were celebrating in the street.
I wonder which aid recipient sits better with American taxpayers?
You should go to live in Egypt perhaps, and get a real feel for their friendship to Americans.
Just make sure your life insurance is paid-up.
As a final note, I say let the Muslim Brotherhood take over in Egypt......all the better to get them out in the open for targeting purposes.

[delta13soultaker]

Sabashimon, that is very accurate.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

Sabashimon, that is very accurate.

Indeed he is, Delta, indeed he is. There is NO Arab nation in the world that is a true friend of the US, including Saudi Arabia. Israel IS a friend, and perhaps more importantly in this crazy world of ours, Israel is an ALLY of the United States. Sure, we have our squabbles with the Israelis from time to time over minor issues, but one must remember that disagreement happens even between brothers. When the chips are down the Israelis side with us and we with them. When the bullets start to fly, whom would you rather bet on to fight at our side, the Israelis or the Egyptians? I would bet on the Star of David against the Eagle of Saladin any day of the week and twice on Sunday!

[Shellback]

They better side with us we give em 10 billion dollars in foreign aid..
Tim

[sabashimon]

Tim, you really should learn about the differences between loan guarantees, loans, and grants. (BTW, Israel has never defaulted on a loan)
Much of what Israel receives in loans is required by law to be spent in the United States in the form of military procurements.....so that much of that money comes back into the U.S. economy.
The money spent supporting Israel is money well spent, as opposed to the billions going to peoples that hate you, and want to kill you.
Israel is America's only true and unshakable ally in a very important and dangerous region of the world

That being said, I look forward to the day when Israel will be able to be less reliant upon American largess.

[Terry_P]

Israelis are a free and industrious people that have long supported this country. I can't think of a better country to give aid to. If you wish to cut start with the corrupt UN and work out from there.

[Shellback]

Ahh I agree, get us out of the corrupt UN. As for knowing about loans and grants, I have a slight idea what's what. That being said I see all our enemies with a thorough hate for Israel, why did Israel take land from the Palistinians or just why do they hate their religion? Personally, I don't think we have any business over there, that's just my opinion. We get our noses in everybody's business and that's why everyone in the Middle East hates America. We don't need anything from anybody. We need to take care of home before we should take care of others.
Tim

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by sabashimon

Much of what Israel receives in loans is required by law to be spent in the United States in the form of military procurements.....so that much of that money comes back into the U.S. economy.
The money spent supporting Israel is money well spent, as opposed to the billions going to peoples that hate you, and want to kill you.
Israel is America's only true and unshakable ally in a very important and dangerous region of the world

That being said, I look forward to the day when Israel will be able to be less reliant upon American largess.

What you say is quite true, Shimon. Certainly, the US does provide the Israelis with a great deal of support, especially in terms of making state-of-the-art military equipment available to them. Yet as you point out, much, if not all of that cost is repaid to the US and results in jobs for many in this country. The recent purchase of some eighty odd long-range F-16XL attack fighter aircraft is a case in point. As a result, Israel now has aircraft with sufficient range and payload to pay Mr. Ahmadinejad a rather nasty surprise visit should that become necessary . . . as I think it will.

Just looking in from the outside, it seems Israel is becoming less and less dependent on US military support as time goes by, Shimon. The Israelis are developing some world-class weapons systems of their own, ones especially suited to the conditions they are likely to face in the Mid Eastern conflicts. That Merkava IV, for example, is an exceptional main battle tank by anyone's standard. Indeed, the US is now purchasing some Israeli-designed weapons for its own military. The Israeli B300/SMAW (bunker buster), for example, was purchased by the US Marines, and the US has one of the largest Israeli-built UAV fleets in the world.

[sabashimon]

"....why did Israel take land from the Palistinians....."

Tim my friend, you are in dire need of a history lesson.
If you're interested, I'd be happy to supply you with a few book titles to start you on your way.