what happened to the 1911?

[dbltap]

Hey there,

What happened to the 1911 pistols after the military adopted the 9mm side arm?

Thanks

[Shooter45]

Bill Clinton had most of them destroyed. I guess he didn't know they are so easy to rebuild thus saving the Military millions of dollars. But hey, it's only money.

[berto64]

Yea, It's only "our" money.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by berto64

Yea, It's only "our" money.

Yup. Besides, Clinton was far more interested in his pages than in anything that might save the taxpayers money.

[redhart]

Marines kept a few, and put them to work in Iraq, because of feedback they gave thier CO's on the 9mm not stopping the bad guys, Seal teams also have them, Semper Fi

[bobkk]

Now a lot of units in the military are buying new ones. Should have
kept the old ones. 9mm is OK but not with military hard ball. It's
not a declared war so why not let our GI's carry good ammo.

[Alpo]

Declared war has nothing to do with it. We were not a signatory to the Hague Convention, so we are not bound by its requirements. We can use poison gas, or hollowpoint ammo. We just - don't.

[delta13soultaker]

Shoulda, coulda, woulda.............Modern war is steered by many things. Law is a big one. There are many things that could be done but are not. Commanders must publish their orders and only a fool would take his command too far into the "gray area". But there are loopholes to everything; what one organization can't be associated with doing, a different organization/s can get a green light.

Anyway, hollowpoint ammo for military purposes is not necessary. Penetration, in almost all situations, is very desirable.


As for the 1911....saying this or that organization is buying 1911's isn't saying much. The original 1911 guys, the "the 1911 is the only pistol"
guys, the last ones to have the telltale mark of service on the web of the hand have mostly retired.

Many organizations are buying Sig, H&K, Glock etc etc etc too that also buy/rebuilt 1911's also. Since 9/11 I've almost seen the sidearm thing go double full circle.

[Xracer]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

.....the last ones to have the telltale mark of service on the web of the hand have mostly retired.

......as have the "old timers" with the mashed and flattened "M1 Thumb"!

[cohoskip]

Spent a lot of time behind the sights of an M1. NEVER smashed my thumb.

[Alpo]

Ain't got no M1 thumb, but I do have the 1911/Browning Hi Power hammer bite scar, and the PPK slide slice scar, and the "don't put your left thumb up there" thumb knuckle scar.

[Macmac]

The other part of the story will KILL you guys..

One day a nice Police officer showed up in my door yard. This is rural living, and I was known to be a shooter.

Well the nice officer had come to see if I was interested in a deal, and I was.

The deal was the NRA bought up as many of these WW-2 era Guns that all went to other world problems since, some times getting re-built and sometimes not.

The NRA deal was a Police Dept MUST purchase 3 guns minimum. In the town of Dinkweed, the Chief wasn't interested, which left the other 2 officers sort of holding something not a gun in their hands and drooling over the choices.

The Choices were Colt, of course, but also Union & Switch, Singer the one that Kills me, Remington Rand (the one I chose) and others..

At the time the Colt was the top shelf, while you bought these guns sight unseen, and were supposed to be a police officer which i wasn't, and never have been. But I made the 3 from the 2...

The rand was about 4th down on the list, and if i recall cost me $125.00 bux... The ones above that were apx 5 bucks each more, and down from that Rand 5 bucks less.. I chose the rand because it was in the middle.

So while you guys all choke on this, you can bank on I am too.

BTW am new here... Just call me Mac...

[ehughes]

The Seabees carry 'em, they also still carry the M-14...and it works...well.

As a good friend of mine once said "The turban comes off about the same time as most of the upper head area."

Both guns work effectively, more so than the 5.56/9mm platforms, yet they're being phased out.

[Silver72]

NRA marked 1911A1 guns were sold to members......Singer only produced 800 so none were NRA marked. The arsenals sold left over .45s for as little as $12.50...later the price escalated to $17.50. Some were new, never issued guns and a lot were used...some rebuilt and marked with the arsenal that did the work.
Three of my collection.




HIGH, XRACER!

[Macmac]

Silver72, Did you buy and install old like grips? The Remington Rand I bought came with new wood grips and a NRA logo medalion.

I won't insist I saw Singer listed, but I think I did.. 1984/5 or so was long ago and I can't really trust I had oj for breakfast yesterday.

The rand I got wasn't very pretty, but it functions like a clock. I see no other markings as being rebuilt from any armory either. The only markings mine has is what is right for late war WW-2.

I assumed mine was in any and every other police and war action untill dumped by the Govt.. I have no way to prove other wise. SO your post causes me to wonder if my Rand was put into retirement right after the war?

The barrel in mine says Colt, and I took that to mean it had been re-barreled while still in the hands of the Mil. I don't know if any new marking would have taken place for that or not. I am not sure what barrel would be 'correct' for a Rand in the first place.

Mine is pretty well worn as to the finish. A lot of parker is worn off, typical holster wear. I bought the right plastic grips and have them in a box still because they have the in pencil markings still on them.

[Silver72]

No, they came on the guns. I only collect all original guns. They are only original once.
One of my Remington Rands. "the in pencil markings still on them." Never heard of "in" markings. Remington Rand had a type of plastic grips when issued, as did all 1911A1s. Some 1911 left over from WWI still had their original wood grips. Grips were changed from wood to Plastic in the transition from 1911 to 1911A1 about 1924.

[Macmac]

Well I wasn't there back then and so can't state for sure, but reading about the NRA guns which I am not sure yours was/is dumped by the Govt. I know for a fact they came witb new wood grips checked nicely and a gold NRA logo.

Looking up the serial number I found on line accounts of what parts there should be. And it was plain the grips were not OEM. What I read stated the grips were to be a checker plastic, and armors marking were to be in pencil on the inside of each grip.

So at a gun show I searched around and found several grips like what should be on the gun and some of these had pencil markings still???? on them.

So I bought a set, seemingly by the same person, which of course is one of the easiest things to forge.. My gun isn't a collector item anyway, but I haven't changed it from the way I got it either. Not even installing the grips.

I am not a collector of such things, as my life style doesn't afford it. My stuff works or it is gone.. I have real 18th century tools I use.. If I can't use a tool for what it is made for I don't want it, much less have space to store it. It's just the way I am..

I try to not alter history as well, but I might put back a raped gun into a condition it was once formerly, but not conceal the fact i did. I know that an all original gun in decent shape is of the higher values, and those with replaced parts are worth less. Once restored are worth less than that even, and then last are the ones which were butcherd and repaired well, nothing like a collector, but still these last can be good shooters.

That is what makes an all OEM gun worth what it is.

In "What's It Worth" here I have questions on a gun, that looks like it will be just a good shooter. It is too bad, but that is just the way it is.

Parts of the questions were should I make it up as close to what it was, which would be very hard to do at this point, or is it just fine, to fix, and finish it to be nice looking, and still shoot.. I have the answers now, so the point is moot. But I tried to do the right thing by history, but that's all gone now.

[Silver72]

"Well I wasn't there back then and so can't state for sure, but reading about the NRA guns which I am not sure yours was/is dumped by the Govt. I know for a fact they came with new wood grips checked nicely and a gold NRA logo."

Not true....NRA guns were simply stamped "NRA" on the frame. they came with the original grips. Maybe some American Heritage Society offering of 45s came with silly things added, but not true NRA offered guns. I haven't seen a true NRA gun in a long time.

[Macmac]

I will have to get a few pics made up.. We are not even close to being on the same page. I can't understand why though.

I forget the exact date the cops came to my house with a paper showing 1911's of WW-2 vintage. The deal being the Police Dept had to buy no less than 3. I wasn't any sort of LEO, but I was known by them to be a shooter. I saw the papers and chose the Remington Rand that day, and we all waited for the guns to come.

I had several choices as to which brand of gun I got, and has to select a 2nd choice if the first choice was all gone.

When these guns came and each of the 3 of us got a different brand all of them had new wooden grips with a NRA logo the size of a dime in a gold tone inlayed in the grips on both sides. These were bought up by the NRA to sell back to just Police. No civilain was supposed to get the offer, but the local police for me at that time had only 3 officers present and only 2 of them wanted in on the deal.

There is No NRA marking on this gun, and I don't recall the other 2 guns having any other NRA marking either... Strange huh?

I will look into getting you some pictures asap. I agree the new grips and the gold coin like logo appear silly on a very worn gun. I am certain this was when the Govt dumped these guns for the Berretta... 1984ish

[Silver72]

I've been an NRA member longer than I can remember, but never heard of, nor have I seen, such an offer from the organization. It must have been some other organization selling guns. I'll scan in a picture of the NRA marking placed on the guns they had in their one time offering.

[Silver72]

Here is the NRA marking on 95 Springfield 1911 and 47 Colts. That's all there was. This was done from 1914 to 1917 and resumed after WWI until about 1922. Remington rand wasn't in production then.

[Macmac]

'WE' civilians were not supposed to have known about this offer. It was just for LEO.

There is no mistake on this part. The gun is sitting right next to me and the medalion says National Rifle Association of America. Centered below the NRA eagle the token says centenial 1871-1971. The token is apx the size of a dime and a gold tone color. I need a pretty strong glass to read any of that, but that's what it says exactly.

I bought this gun myself from the deal offered for LEO only. I came by the deal at the time the Govt dumped these guns and not in 1971. The grips were installed on every one of these guns I saw, just 3. All the grips at that time were brand new. I have no idea why that was done, and or why there is no NRA stamp mark somewhere on the frame or slide, but there is none.

All the markings are correct for a rand so far as can tell.. Maybe you can know better..

Slide left side pointing the gun away from you, it says Remington Rand Inc.
below that it says SYRACUSE, N.Y. U.S.A.

The right side is blank.

The left side of the frame has a marking, probably an Armorers mark right under the slide lock FJA. below the mag button is a 'P'.

On the right side of the frame near the rear top right grip is a logo like crossed cannon in a partial circle.

Above the grip and extending forward it says United States Property. Moving forward more past the slide lock it says M 1911 A1 U.S. Army.

The next line below the United States Property is the serial number like this

NO 21963xx

There are no other marking I can see with out at least field stripping.

Field stripped the only marking I can see is either a 6 or a G near the right rear corner on top of the frame to the right side, apx midway between the hammer and the disconector pin.

I don't see any other markings anywhere else, and if there are anymore someone would need to tell me where to look. No big NRA anywhere.

The main spring button you press in at the barrel bushing has a dent made into it not like a new gun, and that dent traps the button on the spring. A wise thing to do IMO.. I recall being miffed the les bear didn't have the dent.

I will get to getting pics asap.

[Macmac]

So did the gun get a differnt serial number or was it enhanced with the paint and the NRA logo was added?

[Silver72]

Your fake NRA gun was made in 1945 the last year of production. It has to be some outfit selling some sort of "commemorative" and not one of the original NRA marked guns. They all had the original wood grips.

Since the serial number was issued to Rem Rand that is what the gun is, or was at one time. NRA never offered guns to police only.

Remington Rands did not have Colt barrels. They had High Standard, or a few Flannery barrels.

The G indicates government contract produced gun.

The government did not "dump" guns. The government was about broke after WWII and sold tons of un needed equipment after the war.

Be happy with your gun.

[Silver72]

Originally Posted by Macmac

So did the gun get a differnt serial number or was it enhanced with the paint and the NRA logo was added?

Guns don't just get a different serial number. One can have the ATF try to raise an obliterated serial number and if they can't they can stamp one of their numbers on it. I don't know anyone who would want an ATF numbered gun. I have no idea what your gun looks like.....originally they were blue if WWI and one of several parkerized finishes if WWII 1911A1s.

1915 Springfield Armory, probably Colt grip panels.