Countersniper scopes???

[jack404]

oh and ask him what rifle he was gonna mount the scope on , that i really want you to come back and state, PLEASE for us all here ...

[_rory_]

"That's easy to find out. Its called marketing, they all do it."

So you would buy from a company who would lie about their contracting? Why not buy a used leupold or uso st-10? Both can be found for around the price of your beloved countersniper. Oh you might as well buy some tactical bacon, a kabar bayonet and all the utg crap you can put on your gun.

[Crpdeth]

Originally Posted by _rory_

Oh watch this too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVW5-F242Yo

Thanks for the link, I actually watched the entire vid... Cool looking guy.

I noticed that they currently have 131 videos, will you please point me to the one where they actually used the scope on a rifle? I think you posted the wrong one because he was just holding it in this one.

TIA

[jack404]

what do you have against them ? has your friend got a rifle yet for his scope ? no but he lost the screw ? sheeesh tough eh .. next ..

no answers to anything asked just more CS bagging , ever fired a rifle mate ? at all ?

the same three IP address are responcible for the posts that bag these scope on 5 forums

3 people pretending to be a crowd of CS scope haters , hahahahaha enough ...

[_rory_]

Originally Posted by jack404

oh and ask him what rifle he was gonna mount the scope on , that i really want you to come back and state, PLEASE for us all here ...

If you would read the beginning of the thread, he mounted it on a rem. sps tac in a mcmillian stock.

"All tests were run with a Counter Sniper 3x12x50mm mounted on a Remington SPS tactical in a bedded McM A5 stock.

Intial Impressions:
Terrible construction- locking knobs on turrets dont sit flush and are a cheap plastic, magnification ring is loose and tight when adjusting magnification(not a consistent amount of force required to turn), illumination knob is terrible, feels like it will fall out at any time

Scope features: elevation and windage knobs are in 1/8 MOA increments not sure why, clicks were to close together and knobs were mushy. Glass was at best decent. It was ok on the 3x but as magnification went higher it got hazey. Illuminated reticle has 10 different brightness settings, couldnt notice a difference in any of the settings. Ocular eye focus piece doesnt do ****, it turns for looks.

Scope durability: Held up to 308 recoil as it should. But failed miserably at a 12-15 foot drop test. The elevation knob sheared off when it hit, it was dropped on grass. After the drop test the magnification ring no longer does anything, after the drop test the reticle seemed to have gotten canted.

Before the drop test it was put through a box test. It failed miserably and failed to return to zero. The mildots dont look evenly spaced by any means like a high quality optic should. I am not saying this is a high quality optic by any means

here are the results of the box test:
Well im back from running the Counter Sniper through its paces. It failed the box test miserably. Since i was only working with a 24x16ish piece of paper i decided on a 3 MOA each direction.

From the zero these are the inches from the middle group. All of these were shot out of a lead sled vice that the range officer had. Keep in mind 3 MOA on the turrets is 24 clicks

From initial group measured .237 after .308 was subtracted center to center

3 MOA on knobs up: measured 6.25 inches from center group, dialed 3 MOA back down .5 inches below initial group.

3 MOA on knobs down from starting zero measured 4.8 inches below intial group, dialed 3 MOA back up to see return to zero .2 inches high

3 MOA right from intial group measured 3.7 inches from intial group. Dialed back to intial zero, this is the only one that returned to zero.

3 MOA left from intial group, measured right at 5 inches from initial zero. Tried to return to zero, no dice it was 1.3 inches right of intial group.

All of these groups were shot at 100 yds.

Company info, i emailed them and asked some specific questions such as what the Bertillium Zantitium BS was, why the clicks were in 1/8 MOA, where in the US their scopes were produced, what glass they used and where it was outsourced from. They sent me an email back that they had basically copy and pasted the informative spill that is on their website, i emailed them back and asked for answers to my specific questions and havent gotten a response since. So my opinion is stay away from Counter Sniper or any Dark Ops products. They are cheap, poorly built, lack of customer service, and flat out lies for advertising."

Yeah sure seems like a good scope, very repeatable and durable.

[jack404]

"All tests were run with a Counter Sniper 3x12x50mm mounted on a Remington SPS tactical in a bedded McM A5 stock.

just not his ... ask he was talking to "some guy " great info from talking with "some guy " and its been repeated in a few places , ok he has a problem with the scope why post the same hash up everywhere ? and why attack folks who disagree ??

you my friend have a agenda ..

i dont own one , but plan too

i've seen 3 in my hand shot with 2 and both have been fine , .416 .308 and .300 WM

i've hard core hard nut shooter friends who i respect and they like em and have em ( 2 in iraq and another couple in afghanistan , FOR REAL )

just because these people like them is NO REASON TO JUMP ON FOLKS based on third party info .

what is YOUR hands on experience with these scopes ????

please answer this basic of all questions

what is your hands on experience with these ?

again i think there are way better scopes but for the price ? heck .. but to trash em and anyone who likes em ? hmmmmm

[_rory_]

Ok, just do this for me then. When you purchase your scope, do a box test on it. Do a torture test to it and see how well it stands the abuse. Maybe compare it to another scope in the same price range, like the SS HD 10x or 3-9, vortex pst line, or the new bushnell tactical line.

What is Bertillium Zantitium anyways?

[jack404]

cant answer , ok thought not

and its a patented coating a custom silica based medium , currently under investigation by Zeiss for licencing , read tech web ..

(they grow a mineral coating on the glass instead of plastic and it seems every company has/getting its own or licences someones elses)

i dunno if its good better or bad , but a leo of the same size and basic spec is almost double the price , and they have a propriety coating too based on cordium silicates also a propriety element from Dow chemicals or is that a fake too ?

look the knobs are metal , i've stated my guess and happy to be wrong but they are metal , no one is saying they are the best scope on the market , but good value ( i expect the price to go up to be honest ) , and i have found the same hate filled arguments on a couple forums , but when asked its always someone else's rifle and scope

they may be bad , but for what my friends have spent , the usage they have got in the circumstances used , from three shoots myself, one on one of my rifles, i reckon they aint bad at all

and of course you dont respond you state ok do this for me then ,
we have answered your questions , fololowed your links and all i feel is you want that product to have a bad name based on third hand info

and that is petty , end of story as far as i am concerned

hey i had a leo go loose in the rectical once , will you hear me whinge and bag the company ? all their products bad ? no it HAPPENS ( even to Leopold!) , i wish whoever was the original poster of that good luck and to have his scope fixed or replaced as they promise , if its legit

but the fact is from my 1st hand experience and that of people i know in real life who own them , is way off what your claiming and i claim occhams razor ..

have a good day

( sorry folks )

[_rory_]

I don't have any experience with them, i'd rather spend on a company with a believable track record who doesn't lie about their product. Go ahead and buy it then, its not my money. Don't be surprised if it craps out on you.

[Crpdeth]

Originally Posted by _rory_

If you would read the beginning of the thread, he mounted it on a rem. sps tac in a mcmillian stock.

The beginning of what thread?

[jack404]

theres a link to another forum where the post is , he is correct it does state the rifle , but when i PM's the guy , he explained it was his friends and then i got another link to the exact same post on another pseudo sniper forum , when i asked there same story , a friends rifle .. Donny i dont mind a bagging but i've been seeing a pattern against some makers, maybe they where real junk before , i dunno , but shooting handling knowing 10 and not one bad thing besides the alu mount screws? meeh on the BP group a friend has a issue , sent it back , got a new one , dunno the issue it was a while back , so even that side is ok

when asked what there first hand experience with this scope is, they dont reply , not one ..

we asked the forum and a couple owners stated they where ok , no one claimed they where anything they aint .. a bang for buck scope, but we are all idiots for not following onw post thats been dupicated in a couple places , thankfully not here

if something is junk , the members will say so , i've been steer'd away from things because too many folks here had issues , but they aint seen fit to say these are bad.. and how many regulars we got now ? 28K ? more ?
and i dont see it , their facts are just wrong , plastic knobs ? not on any i've seen...
i smell 1 or 2 people pestering forums with this and some other small US scope makers , why ? i dunno ,

[Infidel]

Originally Posted by jack404

i smell 1 or 2 people pestering forums with this and some other small US scope makers , why ? i dunno ,

I think in more than one case it is someone trying to push thier own products. They can't stand alone so they drag down someone elses product in hopes of making thier own look better.

[jack404]

i saw that too but not sure its them or a fan ... some folks are strange ..

i heard a low life marketing mob that does do forum "suggestions" was hired by some group of 4 chinese scope makers , advest are low players .. it could be a few thinbgs and until i KNOW its all just idea's , but i'm sure its a malicious campaign

i've checked a few folks and places now

i found 2 send backs that have new scopes and no complaints , i cant say that about Leo or anyone else ,

send backs that sort it for the customer are ok , its sad it happens but hey , if fixed ..

i'm yet to hear one real complaint other than a longer shroud is needed etc ( peoples preferences ) sorry for being a sceptic , but i believe my hands and eyes and trust my friends , and the gent , Pete from horsely park gun shop , who spotted them is rather picky , and i trust him when he says stuff like this cause he does suss them out, he dont sell everything , but he likes and can recommend everything he does .. a good bloke to have in our game (hunting).. and we are all saying a similar thing.. not the best scopes that can be bought , but decent quality for the price ..

[Crpdeth]

Originally Posted by Infidel

I think in more than one case it is someone trying to push thier own products. They can't stand alone so they drag down someone elses product in hopes of making thier own look better.

I had those same thoughts...

[joncutt87]

With the research that I have personally done myself I will be purchasing a cs in the near future

[Infidel]

Originally Posted by joncutt87

With the research that I have personally done myself I will be purchasing a cs in the near future

Good luck with it! Be sure to let us know how it works out. I don't know where you plan on getting one, but if you have a sportsmansguide.com membership, it knocks a chunk of the price. They have great customer service. I buy stuff there often.

[mcgreen85]

Hey jack, not trying to get in the middle of anything, but I was wondering would you recomend one of these scopes to go on my 22-250, I've been planning on getting one before this season starts & I was thinking some 1/8 moa would do me some good, I like to shoot out to about 500 yds

[jack404]

I've seen them on .308 and 30-06 so should be ok for 22/250 ( recoil wise)

but if your like the average 22/250 shooter your shooting the flat so max range of 400 yards ?

you dont have to go so high end for this range and can save a few extra bucks

you can get 1/8 MOA on a couple of the sponsors links here about $80-$100 cheaper than where these start take a look the folks have some good deals and a broad range of recticals

these aint so great close in like many scope of this nature and are for 300-infinate yard shooting but at 300 and under ,errr theres better and cheaper ..

the lower end CS scopes are not so impressive as the high end ones , theres a CS tactical review of a lower end scope they dealt with , not good .. if you do get one get the US made versions as thats the ones folks like ( but they are ruining their name with the cheaper ones.. )

[Bigr Bang Thry]

Just my two cents worth, but here goes. The close-up picture of a countersniper scope has a ROCHESTER, NEW YORK address. I can tell you that BOUSCH & LOMB ( A VERY reputable optics company ) is headquartered in Rochester. B&L also manufactures rifle scopes, both under the B&L label, and BUSHNELL. I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if COUNTERSNIPER scopes were actually made by B&L. B&L does alot of it's manufacturing overseas, but their high end scopes come out of the states. Like I said, I don't know. This is just a guess.

[jack404]

your part right

CS are designed by B&L and a gent calles noel geshardt or similar spelling , for CS,

CS is a company in its own rights who went to the different folks asking to make scopes to their spec and have been dealing with the B&L team but its made to a price , many parts are off shelf china sourced , many parts are US made to order and the lenses come from a few places including ziess and fuji depending on model , but the B&L folks do have a big input on the design and componant parts what exactly for each model i dunno just did some reading and sent a couple emails to them after this thread and another like it got started ..

[The Duke]

Nothing like a lively topic to get things stirred up.

I dont own a CS, but may do so in the future...but will need another rifle to put it on first...

I got one Bushy 3200 10X and 2 Leupy MkIVs 6x25 and a Meopta 4X16...No complaints with any of them....I will be impressed if it can do as well as the MKIV's...

Think I will put a CS on my " I Wanna " list and see...May be time to retire the old Meopta with the front focus..

[happyskeeter]

First off, Sportsmanguide sells a magnetic product that you install on your gasoline line to increase your gas mileage 50%. That tells me the company can not be trusted. The Countersniper scopes are in the same league as this magic gas mileage improver.

Check www.swfa.com and get on their optics talk forum with a group of people who live and breath optics. They either work in the optics field or it is a hobby they take real serious. They definitely know what they are talking about.
Their opinion which I trust is that the Countersniper is total crap. The fact that CS says they are a military contract item when they are not says something right there. I have never seen any CS scope used in any 50cal competition. It is usually S&B,Nightforce, Leupold or US Optics once in a while you see a Vortex Razor.

Rory== You have it totally right about this joke of a scope. People still buy Lorcin's and think they are great pistol. It is called "denial" or just not knowing better. How many people bought a Yugo thinking it was the total crap it was? Some people just do not know better. The CS scope is the Yugo of scopes.

[Infidel]

Do you own one? Have you shot one? Have you even had one in your hand?

[okiefired]

Well. glad I didn't read this thread before I joined here or I probably wouldn't have met the few great people I've met on this site. 1rst, Ive never used a CS scope and probably never will. I have handled one and it was ok, but thats it, just ok. I'd lot rather have a Nikon or Leupold, NF is out a my price range. I will say this, the two guys promoting the CS here have, between the two of them according to thier posts, 300 rnds set off under the scope. Thats pretty funny considering they were both yelling "what experience do YOU have with it personally" ! Most people in the REAL world who really run optics for work will put that kind of use on a scope in a day....easy..and all the while tryin to twist the turrets off of it. I've run mine that hard in a day and I'm just a lowly, no count, no nothing civi, not a real army sniper......gimmy a freakin break. 2nd, I will also say this about Snipershide. The guy that owns the site was a Marine Corp. sniper that servered his country for years. I believe he is now an instructor at places like Rifles Only and others....he know his ****. I've been a member there for years, since 03 I think, and I've personally talked to people on that site the caliber of George Gardener, Terry Cross and a young man named David Tubbs, maybe some of you have heard of him (there are many active duty andd retired snipers on that site). To come on this site and make a blanket statement about them like "nothing but a bunch of wanna be snipers" is pure ignorance and lets me know right off that nothing else you say needs to be taken with one bit of seriousness, your credibility just went right out the window. If you want to prove it go show up at some of thier matches and give them a lesson. Be sure and let us know how that works out for ya. 3rd, good job on runnin off the (obviously young) man who disagreed with you, now he'll get his questions answered who knows where and by who. Come to find out, no one in the thread had much more experience than he did with the scope. Maybe they'll be the rage of the future and if they are, I'll buy one, but the 2 mil trained snipers that I know and asked about them.........never heard of them.

okie

[Infidel]

Who, where and when? I'll bring my M1A and whatever scope I'm running on it at the time.

This thread isn't a question of capability, some have, some don't.

I may have not worded my sentiments of snipershide properly, so for you, I will clarify.

I have no doubt that any of my military bretheren are fully qualified to post and offer thier experience and expertise. However, like all anonymous internet forums, they are chocked full of fan boys, twits and posers, doing their best to fit in and participate in a world that they will never know firsthand.

No statement I ever made was intended do derogate any of the professionals of any of these fora. However, opinions offered about products are subjective to all discretions. Some are good, some are bad. What works for you may not work for me.

Please don't hesitate to address me directly instead of "someone" or "some members". I assume your are addressing me in your post and I would be glad to discuss this with you Okiefired.

Please quote any direct points of contention you have with anything I have said and I will happily discuss and admit if I have posted something in error or stupidly.