Removing copper fouling (Barnes X-bullets)

[Bindernut]

Okay...I did a good one on my .25-06 this week.

Need help removing some NASTY copper fouling without damaging the bore.

Been brewing up a new pet load for my Ruger 77 .25-06. It's old favorite was the original Barnes 100gr flat-base X-bullet but that's no longer available so I'm trying out the new TSX boat-tail 100gr. (Besides the point, but this rifle has never liked any boat-tail bullets so I'm still working up a new load).

Anyway, I went through about a 30-round session at the range with mostly Barnes but also a couple other assorted bullets/charges and noticed that the groups really went to pot at the 25 round point.

Post-session cleanup, I've got a really thick copper fouling in the bore. Worse than I've ever had from the original Barnes X. Probably from a couple three-round groups that were borderline on the hot side...no high-pressure signs, but good stout loads.

My usual method of patches and Sweet's 7.62 isn't cutting this stuff loose. I've made a few passes down the boore with a brush after doing a 5-minute soak in Sweet's, but I'm still not cutting it loose. How long dare I leave Sweet's in the bore...it's a good strong ammonia cleaner and I don't want to attack the steel by leaving it too long.

Any suggestions besides keep repeating the soak/scrub process?


BTW, the bore in this rifle is fairly well polished...I used to be able do a good 50-round session with the old Barnes bullets before cleaning with minimal copper fouling.

[GMFWoodchuck]

Originally Posted by Bindernut

Okay...I did a good one on my .25-06 this week.

Need help removing some NASTY copper fouling without damaging the bore.

Been brewing up a new pet load for my Ruger 77 .25-06. It's old favorite was the original Barnes 100gr flat-base X-bullet but that's no longer available so I'm trying out the new TSX boat-tail 100gr. (Besides the point, but this rifle has never liked any boat-tail bullets so I'm still working up a new load).

Anyway, I went through about a 30-round session at the range with mostly Barnes but also a couple other assorted bullets/charges and noticed that the groups really went to pot at the 25 round point.

Post-session cleanup, I've got a really thick copper fouling in the bore. Worse than I've ever had from the original Barnes X. Probably from a couple three-round groups that were borderline on the hot side...no high-pressure signs, but good stout loads.

My usual method of patches and Sweet's 7.62 isn't cutting this stuff loose. I've made a few passes down the boore with a brush after doing a 5-minute soak in Sweet's, but I'm still not cutting it loose. How long dare I leave Sweet's in the bore...it's a good strong ammonia cleaner and I don't want to attack the steel by leaving it too long.

Any suggestions besides keep repeating the soak/scrub process?


BTW, the bore in this rifle is fairly well polished...I used to be able do a good 50-round session with the old Barnes bullets before cleaning with minimal copper fouling.

Interesting. I don't know. I will hopefully be reloading soon myself and I was considering these bullets. I'm curious myself now......

[carver]

Originally Posted by Bindernut

Okay...I did a good one on my .25-06 this week.

Need help removing some NASTY copper fouling without damaging the bore.

Been brewing up a new pet load for my Ruger 77 .25-06. It's old favorite was the original Barnes 100gr flat-base X-bullet but that's no longer available so I'm trying out the new TSX boat-tail 100gr. (Besides the point, but this rifle has never liked any boat-tail bullets so I'm still working up a new load).

Anyway, I went through about a 30-round session at the range with mostly Barnes but also a couple other assorted bullets/charges and noticed that the groups really went to pot at the 25 round point.

Post-session cleanup, I've got a really thick copper fouling in the bore. Worse than I've ever had from the original Barnes X. Probably from a couple three-round groups that were borderline on the hot side...no high-pressure signs, but good stout loads.

My usual method of patches and Sweet's 7.62 isn't cutting this stuff loose. I've made a few passes down the boore with a brush after doing a 5-minute soak in Sweet's, but I'm still not cutting it loose. How long dare I leave Sweet's in the bore...it's a good strong ammonia cleaner and I don't want to attack the steel by leaving it too long.

Any suggestions besides keep repeating the soak/scrub process?


BTW, the bore in this rifle is fairly well polished...I used to be able do a good 50-round session with the old Barnes bullets before cleaning with minimal copper fouling.

http://www.frfrogspad.com/cleaners.htm

"Butch's Bore Shine, and MC-7, showed any ability to remove cooper fouling but none of them worked at the level of the ammonia based "copper solvent" solutions, 10% ammonia, or KG12. No doubt that regular use would help to minimize copper foulingI believe the results speak for themselves. The following points were noted. Of common regularly available bore cleaners that I tested only Accubore, Barnes CR-10, build up".

[Bindernut]

Did another soak/scrub session on it after work this morning with Sweet's and patches. Still lifting copper out of the bore so I am making progress.

I've got a bottle of CR-10 back at the farm...will grab that the next time I get back there and give it a try too. From my past experience it's about the same strength as Sweet's, but being more of a liquid than a "syrup" I think it might work better to plug the bore and fill with that for a good soaking.

I've looked at those Outers Foul Out systems before, but have never needed one (til now maybe? ).

[300 H&H]

Bindernut,

The Sweet's is about as good as it gets, and in a chrome molly barrel I have left for 15 to 20 minutes. I do make sure to use somthing right behind it to help flushit out between applications. Usually Kroil, but I think other products will do tis also. Just be surre to use soem oil at the end to prtect the bare metal the Sweet's will uncover. Do you suppose the X- bullets has changed their alloy? I have not had this problem with their older bullets. The Outer foul out systems do work, I used a friends once on a cooped up bore and it did the trick. Best regards Kirk

[JLA]

try M-pro 7 copper remover, liberally soak a patch and let it work for at least 15 minutes. I did a .17 rem for a customer, he brought me the rifle saying he thought it was shot out, the rifling was shallow and looked worn out. upon inspection, i found enough copper in the bore to wire my christmas lights. M-pro 7 took it right out, i let the copper remover work for about 2 days, brushing, patching, and reapplying about twice a day, most of the initial fouling came out in long corkscrew pieces. It was a long process but required very little elbow grease and now the rifle and its owner are happily exploding bunnies again...

[mdw442]

I've been shooting Barnes bullets for years and have never had a fouling problem. You need to call Barnes and find out what's going on - they are very helpful on the phone. They also have a great cleaner that will dissolve copper fast.

[Bindernut]

Well, I'm still working the copper out of the .25-06. It's still coming clean slowly but I'll have to set it aside til deer season is over with.
CR-10 and Sweet's are working about the same...both of em are dissolving the fouling.

I'm starting to theorize that in addition to those few near-max test loads it might be the boat-tail design caused increased fouling. I know bevel-base lead will foul more than flat-base will, but I don't know if that logic follows with jacketed bullets. I honestly don't remember how the pre-TSX boat-tail 100grs fouled in this rifle, but I know that it hasn't liked to group well with any boat-tail designs that I've tried (from any maker).
I've also been trying current production TSX flat-base 130s in my 6.5x55 CZ550 and it's not fouling as bad as the .25-06 is with these boat-tails...the CZ is still fouling pretty good because the barrel isn't really broke in yet, but that is pretty normal on a new factory barrel from my experience.

It could be a bad batch of the .257 100gr TSX BTs. I've got another couple boxes of the .257s from a different lot and will be trying them later on.

Thanks for the suggestions guys! All that time spent brewing up a favorite load and now I'm starting from scratch. That's okay...just means more range time for me!