Start with a .22?

[TranterUK]

On a recent trip to the US an old issue re surfaced, when teaching handgun, do you start with a .22?

Some say yes, every time. Sight picture, trigger control and grip can be better taught without recoil.

I have to say no, recoil is part of the equation and anyway, one can start with a mild .38spl rather than go straight to a .45acp or .357.

Opinions anyone?

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

Opinions anyone?

Yup, strong ones, Tranter. I still say the .22 is the place to start, especially with female shooters. No chauvinism is intended by that remark, by the way. It's simply that relatively few females are introduced to shooting as children in our culture. I don't agree with that, but it is still the case. Yet, even with inexperienced male shooters I think the .22 is the place to start. It has been my experience, though others may have had a different experience, that teaching the fundamentals is far easier and more effective without the added factor of recoil management in the equation, at least initially. When I teach a new shooter, male or female, I always begin with a .22, then progress upward in power as the shooter is ready to handle a bit more. I've found that many are ready for a bit more power very quickly, in which case I normally introduce a 9mm auto or a .38 in a K-frame revolver. Those weapons add the factor or recoil, but without that recoil being excessive and daunting.

As I see it, many new shooters are somewhat intimidated by firearms at first and fear that shooting them will "hurt." Well, it will if they start out with a large caliber handgun like the .45 or .357 mag. Just my $.02 worth.

[TranterUK]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

As I see it, many new shooters are somewhat intimidated by firearms at first and fear that shooting them will "hurt." Well, it will if they start out with a large caliber handgun like the .45 or .357 mag. Just my $.02 worth.

Indeed Pistol, I would never suggest someone should start with a .45 or .357. They could quickly develop a flinch that would take several years to overcome.

There are some that say a shooter should not progress to a larger calibre until they can shoot a .22 proficiently. Hard to argue with, but I still think a mild .38spl in a typical 4" K / medium frame is as good a starting point.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

There are some that say a shooter should not progress to a larger calibre until they can shoot a .22 proficiently. Hard to argue with, but I still think a mild .38spl in a typical 4" K / medium frame is as good a starting point.

It works well with some, Tranter. I have taught a few who did quite well with the .38 right from the beginning. One of them was a female, I might add. With a .38, I prefer to use a 6" barrel in a K-frame (a Mod 15 to be precise) rather than a 4" though. The extra weight seems to dampen the recoil a bit, and that helps keep the student from flinching so much. It also helps to use handloads because I can load them down to whatever level I think the student can handle. Three grains of Bullseye makes a nice practice load for a newbie.

[Thomas_1]

Start out with the smaller caliber, you don't want this to happen

[happyhunter42]

The first pistol my daughters ever fired was a ruger blackhawk in .357 firing .38spl rounds. My youngest loves to shoot the ruger loaded with .357 rounds. She says it got more boom.

[BlkHawk73]

I'm also a firm believer in starting with a .22lr. The ease of shooting it (low recoil, low noise) helps it be a less intimidating cartridge to shoot for a beginner. That helps build confidence which without confidence the interest drops off quickly. Gotta keep a beginner's interest up. The inexpensive cost of the ammo is a big plus as it allows a lot more shooting for just a small amount of money. Practice makes perfect and with practice comes confidence. Confidence keeps interest, and interest keeps the sport going.

[Danwin22]

Put me down for starting out with a .22.

I've seen too many people dealing with bad recoil flinches with a 357.

Once you get the basics down with a .22 you can probably deal with a larger bore and not develop bad flinch habits

[CampingJosh]

I will vote for the .22 LR in almost every case.

I do have one friend I introduced to shooting this past summer. He had very little interest in the .22 rifle I had out, but he instantly fell in love with the 12 gauge. (After firing one shot, his eyes lit up and he asked how much it cost.)

I would consider starting him out with something a little more powerful, but it would probably include a good bit of dry firing along the way, and I can't imagine a .22 wouldn't be involved in the process, anyway.

[swanshot]

ok Tranter, an interesting insight here (for me as well)
I ran a group for first time women shooters. We started out with .22's, both rifle and pistol. When they were confident with them we let have a go with mild .38 loads. All good.
At the end of the shoot we let em have a go at anything we had with us.
They had shot "take home and put on the fridge targets" earlier, and wanted targets from what we called the "unlimited class". I'm not kidding now, most of the best targets came from things like full on 9mil and 357 loads. There was even a reasonable target from a 44mag fired by a woman I'de have said was too small to handle it.
They (women) never cease to surprise me, that's why I love em.

Me? after years of shooting a 357mag I'm waiting on my lic for my first ever .22 pistol (Ruger Mk1)

[TranterUK]

Originally Posted by swanshot

They (women) never cease to surprise me, that's why I love em.

Hm.....

On the .22 thing, I have to agree if put on the spot then .22 is the best way to start.

I however was first taught on a 9mm (9mm handgun, .22 rifle) and I guess for better or worse you stick to what you know. I have often wondered if I would have been a better pistol shot if I had started with a .22? I am at best average. I will never know, having had very poor instruction in the UK at the beginning. Pistol, target, shoot that way....

[PPK 32]

My vote is with the .22. A person's success in learning a new task, is by breaking down that task into small sub, tasks. Cutting out a variable that can be introduced later, will insure that person is able to perform that task. Therefore, in the learning process a beginner does not have to deal with issues such as recoil, loud noise etc. you insure that they are more likely to be successful. Not all learners are the same, but you need to drop the learning "baseline" to a target audience--those that have never operated a firearm. Some learners will thrive on challenge, and want that kick and big boom as soon as they can get it. Great then ya take it up a notch. Sorry to go "college" on ya but this is what I have learned. My 2 cents and then some

[oscarmayer]

i started both my daughters on 38 specials one took to it right off .the other didn't like it at all. after calling her a sissy i broke out a 22 and she liked it much better and learned to shoot pretty well. now she has grown up and carrys for work a 9mm sig and can out shoot me ( ageing eyes i suspect) the "older girl" now keeps a loaded 357 in her house for protection and goes to the range once a month to practice. i suspect it's all a matter of personal choices.i've been assigned the task of taking the g-kids to the range and have them learning on 22's one is 12 and the other 10. the 12 year old after being taught on a H&R top break "sportman" wants to get a webley 38 S&W he likes the top break guns. so next time out i'll let him use mine and see if he's up to being up-graded. hope he doesn't discover i own a top break scofield in 45lc

[lead]

Alot of people are starting to shoot at a later age, not as kids. Too many grow up without an exposure to guns. I think a .22 is a good way to learn loading, handling, sighting, and marksmanship.
I also tend to think that a single shot is still a good way to start. Worry about "emptying the clip" later. Learn to aim, take your time, make your shot count.
I learned on my own. I grew up in New Jersey and never had access to a gun. I was in my late 20's before I owned a gun of my own(an old Mossberg .22 rifle).
It makes a difference if you have someone to show you the ropes, but I still feel a .22 is the best way to learn the skills you need.

[Pistolenschutze]

Tranter, if you want to start a newbie on something larger than a .22, you could always consider something like this:

[TranterUK]

What the heck is that, looks like a .458 win mag from here?

Not something I would want to shoot!

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

What the heck is that, looks like a .458 win mag from here?

Not something I would want to shoot!

Actually, it's a revolver designed and chambered for the .600 Nitro Express, Tranter. It would probably work quite well against armored knights . . . not to mention a Tyrannosaurus Rex.

[TranterUK]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

Actually, it's a revolver designed and chambered for the .600 Nitro Express, Tranter. It would probably work quite well against armored knights . . . not to mention a Tyrannosaurus Rex.

How are you going to fight on with a broken wrist, arm and dislocated shoulder?

[Pow ba te Pow]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

... I still say the .22 is the place to start ... teaching the fundamentals is far easier and more effective without the added factor of recoil management in the equation, at least initially.

Hi all, my first post here.

This thread is very important to me, because I'm just starting out. Please excuse me for jumping in, I'm simply anxious and open to any and all suggestions.

I'm in my 40's, but hadn't fired a gun since I was a kid. About a month ago, I decided to go for my concealed weapons license. I don't have any friends that are experienced shooters, so found myself fumbling in the dark, so to speak.

After talking to a local police officer, I took his suggestion and bought a SIG, the P239 SAS 9mm, which I like very much, but suck at shooting. After wasting 200 rounds at practice, and not always hitting the 11x17 target at 7 yards (really suck), I signed up for the training class. I had already formed bad habits, and doubt had set in. My eyesight sucks too.

I took the class this past weekend. The NRA instructor had us shoot his .22 guns. When it came to my turn, my stance was bad, my grip was poor, my aim was off (those little dots should stack, not be in line LOL), the recoil was knocking me off, and most importantly, my trigger control was horrible.

He gave me his glock semi-auto pistol (converted to .22), corrected my stance, helped my grip, explained targetting, and beat me over the head with trigger control repeatedly. Like all noobs, I was pulling way too fast, which was pulling the gun off in every direction possible.

Looking back, I wish I had taken the training first, and bought a .22. I'm about to buy a .22, and will probably get the Ruger Mark III, since that seems to be the most popular. When I'm very comfortable with it, I'll go back to my SIG 9mm. Since the P239 only has a 4" barrel, I'm thinking I should get a larger gun and gain proficiency with it, and work my way up to the smaller barrel.

I just found this forum, and look forward to learning from all of you.

Cheers!

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by Pow ba te Pow

Looking back, I wish I had taken the training first, and bought a .22. I'm about to buy a .22, and will probably get the Ruger Mark III, since that seems to be the most popular. When I'm very comfortable with it, I'll go back to my SIG 9mm. Since the P239 only has a 4" barrel, I'm thinking I should get a larger gun and gain proficiency with it, and work my way up to the smaller barrel.

I just found this forum, and look forward to learning from all of you.

Cheers!

First off, welcome to TFF, Pow. We're glad to have you.

Second, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but SIG also makes a .22 that feels and functions very much like their bigger guns. It's closer to the P226 and P229 than to the P239, but it's still about as close to what you have as will be found. You can check it out here.

[PPK 32]

Originally Posted by Pow ba te Pow

Hi all, my first post here.

This thread is very important to me, because I'm just starting out. Please excuse me for jumping in, I'm simply anxious and open to any and all suggestions.

I'm in my 40's, but hadn't fired a gun since I was a kid. About a month ago, I decided to go for my concealed weapons license. I don't have any friends that are experienced shooters, so found myself fumbling in the dark, so to speak.

After talking to a local police officer, I took his suggestion and bought a SIG, the P239 SAS 9mm, which I like very much, but suck at shooting. After wasting 200 rounds at practice, and not always hitting the 11x17 target at 7 yards (really suck), I signed up for the training class. I had already formed bad habits, and doubt had set in. My eyesight sucks too.

I took the class this past weekend. The NRA instructor had us shoot his .22 guns. When it came to my turn, my stance was bad, my grip was poor, my aim was off (those little dots should stack, not be in line LOL), the recoil was knocking me off, and most importantly, my trigger control was horrible.

He gave me his glock semi-auto pistol (converted to .22), corrected my stance, helped my grip, explained targetting, and beat me over the head with trigger control repeatedly. Like all noobs, I was pulling way too fast, which was pulling the gun off in every direction possible.

Looking back, I wish I had taken the training first, and bought a .22. I'm about to buy a .22, and will probably get the Ruger Mark III, since that seems to be the most popular. When I'm very comfortable with it, I'll go back to my SIG 9mm. Since the P239 only has a 4" barrel, I'm thinking I should get a larger gun and gain proficiency with it, and work my way up to the smaller barrel.

I just found this forum, and look forward to learning from all of you.

Cheers!

Welcome to the forum, just my 2 cents. Don't get me wrong the Ruger is a great gun, I have one. But only purchase a gun that feels right for you. Take one for a test drive if you can, then make your decision. I have a MKII and would not hesitate buying a MKIII, but thats because I know how the gun feels for me. Glad ya got on track, now enjoy yourself!!

[Pow ba te Pow]

Thanks for the welcomes

That SIG Mosquito does look good. I've been reading all about it. The "older" posts had lots of reported problems, but posts from 2008 about the newer version are mostly positive. I like the fact that it's a slightly smaller version of the P226. That should help me immensely in training to use my (future) bigger SIGs. I'll probably order one in the next day or so.

[user]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

Actually, it's a revolver designed and chambered for the .600 Nitro Express, Tranter. It would probably work quite well against armored knights . . . not to mention a Tyrannosaurus Rex.

That's one of those that kills by means of the electromagnetic pulse it generates, right?

Put me down for .22, also, and a revolver, at that.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by Pow ba te Pow

Hi all, my first post here.

Welcome to TFF Pow! Glad to have you with us!

In my humble opinion, you are already showing the signs of becoming a good shooter. You asked for instruction instead of practicing your mistakes. With that kind of good sense, you will make it fine in the shooting community.

Your police officer friend did not steer your wrong. The Sig P239 is one of the best 9mm concealed carry pistols out there and eventually you will be very glad you purchased it. Yet you are also smart to get the proper instruction you need with a .22 before you tackle the 9mm again. If you buy a .22 for practice, the Ruger is an excellent choice. I have a 22/45 myself and shoot it often. Another advantage is that .22 ammo is relatively inexpensive, which will let you practice much more. Keep at it. Trust me, your groups will tighten very quickly and you'll be shooting that Sig accurately as well.

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by Pow ba te Pow

Thanks for the welcomes

That SIG Mosquito does look good. I've been reading all about it. The "older" posts had lots of reported problems, but posts from 2008 about the newer version are mostly positive. I like the fact that it's a slightly smaller version of the P226. That should help me immensely in training to use my (future) bigger SIGs. I'll probably order one in the next day or so.

My Mosquito is one of the older ones, and I can still recommend it it you. As long as I have used the lighter recoil spring (it comes with two), I haven't had any problems with it. It's probably my favorite gun to shoot.

If you like SIGs and are just getting started, it's a must-have.