My Jaw just dropped.... - The Firearms Forum

glocknut · 01-16-2009, 08:57 PM

I'm sitting here on the computer reading a TFF thread with the tv running just feet away and something came on that i was not expecting... not from Tulsa, Oklahoma anyways....
An advertisement for an atheist group. http://www.tulsaatheist.com/
We are definitely in the end times Folks...

mike
gn

RunningOnMT · 01-16-2009, 09:21 PM

Interesting.

"What we are:
The Tulsa Atheist Group is made up of average every day people; your co-workers, family, friends, neighbors, even open minded churchgoers."

I wonder why atheists would be churchgoers.

armedandsafe · 01-16-2009, 09:33 PM

Quote:

I wonder why atheists would be churchgoers.

Because they are too ignorant to spell agnostic.

Atheism is a religoin to some people. Now that they are organizing, I wonder if they still want to do away with religous rights. Hmmmmmm

Pops

jim summers · 01-16-2009, 09:58 PM

I am not sure this group even knows what they are. I do however know that on a day appointed by God all of humanity will give an account of the life they have lived as well as their acceptance or denial of his son Jesus Christ.

jacksonco · 01-16-2009, 10:04 PM

Could have been a comercial for the Westborogh Baptist Church. They give athiest and agnostics a good name.

artabr · 01-16-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonco

Could have been a comercial for the Westborogh Baptist Church. They give athiest and agnostics a good name.

True That.

Art

DontCryMrJefferson · 01-16-2009, 11:43 PM

What's wrong with atheists and agnostics again? Someone please tell me.

"Could have been a comercial for the Westborogh Baptist Church. They give athiest and agnostics a good name."

As far as I know the majority of atheists don't preach hatred and intolerance. (it's true, much of the time religion IS NOT a choice) So, really, they give almost everyone a good name--at least you don't support them...

Quote:

I wonder if they still want to do away with religous rights. Hmmmmmm

I'm sure there are some that wish to do this but I've never heard of it. I have heard of Christians attempting to push their religion while denying the same to others, though. Who is really more likely to push for removal of religious freedom (other than theirs of course)?

So, you can believe any way you wish and act any way you wish to act--it is your right, of course. How can you wonder why some are intolerant when you seem to be intolerant yourself?

If you want to know why this pushes my buttons imagine being a Christian in Iran.

Quote:

I wonder why atheists would be churchgoers.

Because they tend to be open minded from my experience.

And, just something to think about:

If you were born in the middle east you would be a Muslim right now and would likely be saying the same thing against Christians that you say about atheists and agnostics. By the way, you guys are atheist and agnostic, too. Surely there are some gods you do not believe in and some things you don't claim to know. These labels are unnecessary. We don't call ourselves aSantaists just because we don't believe in Santa...

It's going to be difficult for me to keep my cool on this subject, but I promise I will. Nothing but civility from now on. Also, if you find something above that seemed a little rude could you please let me know so I can avoid the mistake in the future? Thanks.

EDIT

You see, religion is way too divisive. Let's just agree that we agree that the second amendment is vital and should not be minimalized for any reason whatsoever. I suppose what I'd really like to know is: If you were the president of a new US government and a law requiring someone to believe in god to be in office came through, would you sign it? What about increased taxation for atheists/agnostics? What about making Christianity the national religion? What about licensing of atheists/agnostics? Basically, would you deny anything whatsoever to atheists/agnostics or treat them any differently? Could you guys please answer these questions for me? I will answer any questions that you ask. Thanks in advance...

Bruce FLinch · 01-17-2009, 12:43 AM

Isn't April 1st, the main Holiday for Atheist's?

DontCryMrJefferson · 01-17-2009, 12:57 AM

I don't know. Sounds like a joke to me.

durk · 01-17-2009, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DontCryMrJefferson

These labels are unnecessary. We don't call ourselves aSantaists just because we don't believe in Santa...

We???? You will have to speak for your self. Why you got to bring Santa into this?

glocknut · 01-17-2009, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DontCryMrJefferson

What's wrong with atheists and agnostics again? Someone please tell me.

Because a lot of atheists take pokes at Christianity on a regular basis....

mike
gn

ampaterry · 01-17-2009, 09:25 AM

Sad times indeed, Glocknut -
I felt that way when I took my family to hear a debate between MM Ohare and the Bourbon Street Preacher back in the 70's.
She was some kind of a figurehead for the American Atheists at that time, and seemed to do her best to drive the Christians out of the meeting hall by using language that most people would not want their kids to here.
To a large degree she succeeded; a LOT of people with children there got up and left.
When she picked up the Bible and threw it out in the aisle it got a bit of reaction as well.
The preacher was VERY restrained in all of this, and continued to be very kind and sympathetic to her in spite of her ranting.

Of course she knows the truth now - - -

guntech59 · 01-17-2009, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glocknut

Because a lot of atheists take pokes at Christianity on a regular basis....

mike
gn

And apparently it works the other way around, too.

How does your god judge people? Why should it matter what or how your believe? When you die and your god judges you...it should be your actions not your thoughts, that are judged.

I consider myself an agnostic. We have a "christian" at work that steals, lies, cheats and belittles people constantly and I have had "discussions" with him about his religion and how he reconciles his actions with his words. Several others in the shop have noted that I act more like a "christian" than he does.

I have never understood the whole religion thing (even though I was raised a catholic) and rarely discuss it (and politics) with most people.

Just my opinion.

AL MOUNT · 01-17-2009, 10:06 AM

Hey Mike.....

I'll guarntee ya, none of them morons ever been in a foxhole....

ampaterry · 01-17-2009, 10:36 AM

I don't care to start a Holy War here -
But God judges your THOUGHTS and INTENTIONS strictly out of fairness.
If you INTEND to do evil but it turns out good against your will, that should not be to your credit.
If you intend to do good and it backfires and ends up being bad, that should not be held against you.

God sees our thoughts and our hearts -
And when you mess things up accidentally, that seems like a real good thing.

I once had a frightening nightmare in which I was hiking out through the timber, and heard screams ahead. I ran up closer, and saw a woman being stabbed to death by a man with a large knife. I drew my .44 from my holster and blew the guy away.
Then there is movement in the surrounding brush and trees, and I then see the entire technical crew of the movie they are shooting - and I just killed an actor.

Are you SURE you want to be judged by your actions and not by your intents?

ponycar17 · 01-17-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DontCryMrJefferson

....If you want to know why this pushes my buttons imagine being a Christian in Iran....

Actually, I don't believe that would be so bad. A coworker has dual citizenship with Iran and the US. I believe he's an agnostic because he pretty much hates all religion (or so that's the perception he gives me). He's the free-spirited epitome of the modern liberal. He told us when talking about Iran and Ahmedinejad, that despite Ahmedinejad's bold statements regarding Israel and the Holocaust, that Iran is the 2nd largest Jewish population center in the Middle East. He stated that the sentiment of Ahmedinejad is not echoed with most of the citizens of Iran.

To support this view, he cited that Israel every few years, offers to the Jewish citizens in Iran, a $10,000 +/- relocation package to move to Israel. Most of the Jewish in Iran refuse because they feel they're not threatened.

I don't believe Iran is your best example to use...

If you feel that Religion is forced upon you, why do you not have enough respect to allow the majority to exercise their views while you respectfully refrain from participating? Say, at a baseball game where a prayer is given in the beginning? Does that bother you greatly?

There are NUMEROUS examples of activities in the US, paid for by tax money, that I do not agree with but I have to live with because obviously some majority chose to proceed... It's the same deal with religion. If you adamantly oppose your town's spending on a Christmas Manger Scene, imagine someone else adamantly opposing the town's misappropriation of funds to widen Main St. that died 30 years ago. Although we can't always agree with how public funds are spent, we have the right to voice our objections and in the end, the majority rules. While I don't know the specific incident you're referring to when citing how religion may be forced upon you, I have to imagine the above scenario would be on your gripe list.

guntech59 · 01-17-2009, 12:07 PM

Too many bad things happen for me to believe there is a perfect higher being.

As I said, I rarely discuss this because discussions get heated and people with both views tend to get stupid trying to force their views on the other. Neither side can PROVE anything. You have your faith and I have none.

I believe that we can believe whatever we want to believe.

You gentlemen have a nice day.

doug66 · 01-17-2009, 12:51 PM

Atheist Okie's!!!!!!!!!! We Kansans need to build a fence.

ampaterry · 01-17-2009, 01:06 PM

No hard feelings, guntech -
I spent many years as an atheist myself, some years back.
I spent a LOT of time working on those poor pathetic Christians, trying to convince them they would be better off standing on their own two feet and getting rid of that CRUTCH they kept leaning on.

And now I pastor a church, working for the other side -
Go figure, huh?

Teejay9 · 01-17-2009, 01:08 PM

OMG, another religious dispute? My, how touchy this subject is. I shall re-post my comments from another thread. Perchance it will be indulged here.
Through the centuries there has never been a society or culture that was atheist. They all had a god or gods. They all had their creation stories and all believed in some form of higher power. I think the point trying to be made is that, in this country at least, we have the free will to worship (or not worship) a creator of our own choosing. What becomes sticky is when people try to outdo one another by expounding their own stronger faith. If one has a strong belief, all well and good, it can be very comforting when facing the "Big Chill," but it can also be very divisive when one assumes an attitude of superiority based on personal beliefs. As someone has already pointed out, Jesus main opponents were the organized religious leaders of his day who held fast to their "old" ideas. He sat, ate with, and befriended the "sinners" that the established religion had shunned. Our country was, and there is ample evidence, based on Judeo-Christian beliefs, though they did not name a particular religion. They left it to each one to believe (or not believe) in their creator.
Through experience, I have found you really don't know what you truly believe until you come face to face with eternity. I have also found from experience that some of the most shallow people expound their beliefs the loudest. One who truly believes doesn't try push his (or her) beliefs on others. Some of history's real tragedy's have been committed in the name of religion. Some here have, rather cavalierly opted to "nuke 'em all." That isn't they way of Jesus. He did say if you didn't have a sword, get one.
Just this past year my life was saved by a Muslim. He did it out of the tenants of his religion and love and care for his fellow man.
I believe that all religions teach basically the same thing: Love one another, don't kill (murder), don't steal, treat each other as you would want to be treated.
We still ( for the moment, anyway) have our freedoms. Let's all respect each others' beliefs and be comfortable with our own. TJ

bogus bill · 01-17-2009, 01:26 PM

Atheists, agnostics, muslems, christians and everything I have left out. If one is right, all the others have to be wrong. Right? Also can we "invent" our own rules and expect our after life to be just what we conjure up to be exactly as we dream up now?
Personaly, I am a born again christian. I was born into a strongly christian family. That did NOT make me a christian! Now lets assume you (or hypotheticly anybody) doesnt belive in my god or any god, therefore doesnt belive in salvation or heaven or hell.
Now when both of us die. If I am wrong in beliveing in god, heaven or hell I have no worry as I have no soul. Nothing exists. If I am right, I go to heaven, and enjoy a unspeakable good existance forever.
Now if the unbeliveing die, (or those that maybe belive but still dont turn their life to god through his son jesus) if they are right and I am wrong, well then they have nothing to worry about as their will be no knowledge of anything. But if I am right, they are in for a world of torture and hurt for eternity!
So whatcha got to lose?

jacksonco · 01-17-2009, 01:44 PM

You hit the nail on the head Teejay. Nothing else fpr me to post on the matter as you have summed it up very well. At least that is the way I see it.

ampaterry · 01-17-2009, 04:55 PM

Amen!
(passing the plate)

thomas44 · 01-17-2009, 08:38 PM

The argument that "there can't be a God because there's alot of bad stuff that happens" doesn't take into account the fact that God gave us all free will. He lets us do whatever we want to do, including flying plane loads of innocent people into buildings and other horendous acts throughout history. I'm admittedly unaware of just how much God intervenes in the day-to-day affairs of man, I just know that ULTIMATELY He's in charge.
As far as God judging....He has the right to do that. He's God ! And, more to the point, we condemn ourselves by our own actions. God won't send anyone to hell-we'll send ourselves by our beliefs and actions. All I know is, I'm not perfect, not even CLOSE. I'm just forgiven by the grace of God.
Yes, there alot of a**holes and hypocrites that call themselves christians. I can't do anything about that. I'm responsible for me... God bless you all, especially the atheists and agnostics. I used to be agnostic myself....had no clue whether or not there was a God. Through MUCH thought and study and prayer I've come to the conclusion that there has to be.

GMFWoodchuck · 01-18-2009, 07:54 PM

I'm an atheist myself. I do not believe in a supreme being who preceeds time and existence. All this business about atheists wrong or whatever is pure silliness. An intelligent Hindu could make a Christian feel silly for not believing in Ishvara. And the opposite is also true. Just believe whatever you want and leave everyone else alone. If you think that a book that was writen 2000 years ago is the truth, so be it. I could care less. Why any of this matters in a gun forum is beyond me.

01-16-2009, 08:57 PM	#1
glocknut Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: THE FORUM MASCOTT... Posts: 12,482	My Jaw just dropped.... I'm sitting here on the computer reading a TFF thread with the tv running just feet away and something came on that i was not expecting... not from Tulsa, Oklahoma anyways.... An advertisement for an atheist group. http://www.tulsaatheist.com/ We are definitely in the end times Folks... mike gn __________________ Where O where are you tonight? Why have you gone and left me alone? I searched to world over and a thought i found true love... You met another and PTThhh you were gone.... -->

01-16-2009, 09:21 PM	#2
RunningOnMT Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Akron, Ohio Contributor Posts: 4,720	Re: My Jaw just dropped.... Interesting. "What we are: The Tulsa Atheist Group is made up of average every day people; your co-workers, family, friends, neighbors, even open minded churchgoers." I wonder why atheists would be churchgoers.

01-16-2009, 09:58 PM	#4
jim summers Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: I reside in southern Indiana, you can almost step out of my back door and be setting on Patoka Lake Posts: 1,056	Re: My Jaw just dropped.... I am not sure this group even knows what they are. I do however know that on a day appointed by God all of humanity will give an account of the life they have lived as well as their acceptance or denial of his son Jesus Christ. __________________ To Whom Much Is Given, Much Is Required.

01-16-2009, 10:04 PM	#5
jacksonco Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Jackson County West Virginia Posts: 2,237	Re: My Jaw just dropped.... Could have been a comercial for the Westborogh Baptist Church. They give athiest and agnostics a good name.

01-17-2009, 12:43 AM	#8
Bruce FLinch Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bay Point, Kali..aka Gun Point Posts: 5,016	Re: My Jaw just dropped.... Isn't April 1st, the main Holiday for Atheist's? __________________ A bad day @ the Range, is better than a good day @ work.

01-17-2009, 12:57 AM	#9
DontCryMrJefferson V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 80	Re: My Jaw just dropped.... I don't know. Sounds like a joke to me.

01-17-2009, 09:25 AM	#12
ampaterry TFF Admin Staff Chaplain Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: West Tennessee Contributor Posts: 6,304	Re: My Jaw just dropped.... Sad times indeed, Glocknut - I felt that way when I took my family to hear a debate between MM Ohare and the Bourbon Street Preacher back in the 70's. She was some kind of a figurehead for the American Atheists at that time, and seemed to do her best to drive the Christians out of the meeting hall by using language that most people would not want their kids to here. To a large degree she succeeded; a LOT of people with children there got up and left. When she picked up the Bible and threw it out in the aisle it got a bit of reaction as well. The preacher was VERY restrained in all of this, and continued to be very kind and sympathetic to her in spite of her ranting. Of course she knows the truth now - - - __________________ A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders. Larry Elder

01-17-2009, 10:06 AM	#14
AL MOUNT Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Cleaning my Thompson in The Foothills of the Ozark Mountains Posts: 3,111	Re: My Jaw just dropped.... Hey Mike..... I'll guarntee ya, none of them morons ever been in a foxhole.... __________________ 501st Parachute Infantry Regiment 101st Airborne Division Vietnam 67-68

01-17-2009, 10:36 AM	#15
ampaterry TFF Admin Staff Chaplain Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: West Tennessee Contributor Posts: 6,304	Re: My Jaw just dropped.... I don't care to start a Holy War here - But God judges your THOUGHTS and INTENTIONS strictly out of fairness. If you INTEND to do evil but it turns out good against your will, that should not be to your credit. If you intend to do good and it backfires and ends up being bad, that should not be held against you. God sees our thoughts and our hearts - And when you mess things up accidentally, that seems like a real good thing. I once had a frightening nightmare in which I was hiking out through the timber, and heard screams ahead. I ran up closer, and saw a woman being stabbed to death by a man with a large knife. I drew my .44 from my holster and blew the guy away. Then there is movement in the surrounding brush and trees, and I then see the entire technical crew of the movie they are shooting - and I just killed an actor. Are you SURE you want to be judged by your actions and not by your intents? __________________ A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders. Larry Elder

01-17-2009, 12:07 PM	#17
guntech59 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Adirondack foothills Posts: 82	Re: My Jaw just dropped.... Too many bad things happen for me to believe there is a perfect higher being. As I said, I rarely discuss this because discussions get heated and people with both views tend to get stupid trying to force their views on the other. Neither side can PROVE anything. You have your faith and I have none. I believe that we can believe whatever we want to believe. You gentlemen have a nice day. __________________ Phil US Army 1977-1998

01-17-2009, 12:51 PM	#18
doug66 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 538	Re: My Jaw just dropped.... Atheist Okie's!!!!!!!!!! We Kansans need to build a fence.

01-17-2009, 01:06 PM	#19
ampaterry TFF Admin Staff Chaplain Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: West Tennessee Contributor Posts: 6,304	Re: My Jaw just dropped.... No hard feelings, guntech - I spent many years as an atheist myself, some years back. I spent a LOT of time working on those poor pathetic Christians, trying to convince them they would be better off standing on their own two feet and getting rid of that CRUTCH they kept leaning on. And now I pastor a church, working for the other side - Go figure, huh? __________________ A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders. Larry Elder

01-17-2009, 01:08 PM	#20
Teejay9 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Southwest Corner of the US, "Where no stinking fence will stop us!!" Posts: 1,257	Re: My Jaw just dropped.... OMG, another religious dispute? My, how touchy this subject is. I shall re-post my comments from another thread. Perchance it will be indulged here. Through the centuries there has never been a society or culture that was atheist. They all had a god or gods. They all had their creation stories and all believed in some form of higher power. I think the point trying to be made is that, in this country at least, we have the free will to worship (or not worship) a creator of our own choosing. What becomes sticky is when people try to outdo one another by expounding their own stronger faith. If one has a strong belief, all well and good, it can be very comforting when facing the "Big Chill," but it can also be very divisive when one assumes an attitude of superiority based on personal beliefs. As someone has already pointed out, Jesus main opponents were the organized religious leaders of his day who held fast to their "old" ideas. He sat, ate with, and befriended the "sinners" that the established religion had shunned. Our country was, and there is ample evidence, based on Judeo-Christian beliefs, though they did not name a particular religion. They left it to each one to believe (or not believe) in their creator. Through experience, I have found you really don't know what you truly believe until you come face to face with eternity. I have also found from experience that some of the most shallow people expound their beliefs the loudest. One who truly believes doesn't try push his (or her) beliefs on others. Some of history's real tragedy's have been committed in the name of religion. Some here have, rather cavalierly opted to "nuke 'em all." That isn't they way of Jesus. He did say if you didn't have a sword, get one. Just this past year my life was saved by a Muslim. He did it out of the tenants of his religion and love and care for his fellow man. I believe that all religions teach basically the same thing: Love one another, don't kill (murder), don't steal, treat each other as you would want to be treated. We still ( for the moment, anyway) have our freedoms. Let's all respect each others' beliefs and be comfortable with our own. TJ

01-17-2009, 01:26 PM	#21
bogus bill V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 124	Re: My Jaw just dropped.... Atheists, agnostics, muslems, christians and everything I have left out. If one is right, all the others have to be wrong. Right? Also can we "invent" our own rules and expect our after life to be just what we conjure up to be exactly as we dream up now? Personaly, I am a born again christian. I was born into a strongly christian family. That did NOT make me a christian! Now lets assume you (or hypotheticly anybody) doesnt belive in my god or any god, therefore doesnt belive in salvation or heaven or hell. Now when both of us die. If I am wrong in beliveing in god, heaven or hell I have no worry as I have no soul. Nothing exists. If I am right, I go to heaven, and enjoy a unspeakable good existance forever. Now if the unbeliveing die, (or those that maybe belive but still dont turn their life to god through his son jesus) if they are right and I am wrong, well then they have nothing to worry about as their will be no knowledge of anything. But if I am right, they are in for a world of torture and hurt for eternity! So whatcha got to lose?

01-17-2009, 01:44 PM	#22
jacksonco Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Jackson County West Virginia Posts: 2,237	Re: My Jaw just dropped.... You hit the nail on the head Teejay. Nothing else fpr me to post on the matter as you have summed it up very well. At least that is the way I see it.

01-17-2009, 04:55 PM	#23
ampaterry TFF Admin Staff Chaplain Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: West Tennessee Contributor Posts: 6,304	Re: My Jaw just dropped.... Amen! (passing the plate) __________________ A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders. Larry Elder

01-17-2009, 08:38 PM	#24
thomas44 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 577	Re: My Jaw just dropped.... The argument that "there can't be a God because there's alot of bad stuff that happens" doesn't take into account the fact that God gave us all free will. He lets us do whatever we want to do, including flying plane loads of innocent people into buildings and other horendous acts throughout history. I'm admittedly unaware of just how much God intervenes in the day-to-day affairs of man, I just know that ULTIMATELY He's in charge. As far as God judging....He has the right to do that. He's God ! And, more to the point, we condemn ourselves by our own actions. God won't send anyone to hell-we'll send ourselves by our beliefs and actions. All I know is, I'm not perfect, not even CLOSE. I'm just forgiven by the grace of God. Yes, there alot of a**holes and hypocrites that call themselves christians. I can't do anything about that. I'm responsible for me... God bless you all, especially the atheists and agnostics. I used to be agnostic myself....had no clue whether or not there was a God. Through MUCH thought and study and prayer I've come to the conclusion that there has to be. __________________ Change...it's all you'll have left in your pocket by 2013.

01-18-2009, 07:54 PM	#25
GMFWoodchuck Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Binghamton, NY Posts: 1,369	Re: My Jaw just dropped.... I'm an atheist myself. I do not believe in a supreme being who preceeds time and existence. All this business about atheists wrong or whatever is pure silliness. An intelligent Hindu could make a Christian feel silly for not believing in Ishvara. And the opposite is also true. Just believe whatever you want and leave everyone else alone. If you think that a book that was writen 2000 years ago is the truth, so be it. I could care less. Why any of this matters in a gun forum is beyond me.