Double trigger Tranter

TranterUK · 02-09-2009, 08:35 AM

The reason I use the Tranter name is that its an old English gun company I once worked for. William Tranter himself made guns from the 1850s and one of the most innovative might interest some of you. The double trigger revolver.

The lower trigger cocks the action and the upper drops the hammer. So for single action fire, pull the lower only, then the upper when ready. For double action rapid fire, just pull both together.

It sounds a lot harder than it is. H&K even adopted the principle for their P7 with a squeeze cocking front strap. Hm.

The British percussion revolvers of the period were more robust than the American ones, note the sold frame and barrel. Also the thoughtful hump at the top of the backstrap to stop the weapon riding up. Just thought it might be of interest..

carver · 02-09-2009, 08:57 AM

Sure would love to own one of those! Interesting, very interesting! Is this one yours?
Now we know were you get your fourm name from.

I chose carver years ago, because it is another of my hobbies. Don't do much carving these days though, folks just don't want to pay for the work!

TranterUK · 02-09-2009, 09:33 AM

Nice work carver, I wish I could carve, but wood seems to hate me. Its not my revolver, though I have had a couple pass through my hands over the years and have fired them a few times.

Its surprisingly easy to get used to the system.

Pistolenschutze · 02-09-2009, 11:59 AM

Those revolvers were normally in .44 caliber, weren't they Tranter?

TranterUK · 02-09-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

Those revolvers were normally in .44 caliber, weren't they Tranter?

Indeed Pistol. They were mostly 54 bore, which is about .45". Some are 38 bore which is .50". There are some down to 80 bore which I think is around .30".

I have fired originals in both 54 and 38 bore and they are, as you Americans might say, a hoot!

Notice the loading lever alongside the barrel, unlike the American system where they are under the barrel. Also for anyone interested, that A shape thing on the frame is a hammer rest. You can pull the hammer back a tad, push the top bit into the frame and let the hammer forward. It will rest on the device, so putting no pressure on a cap. When you pull the trigger it just spings out of the way.

I love this stuff!!

b.goforth · 02-09-2009, 12:50 PM

william tanter was also the developer of the double action mechanism
(seperate single action sear) that was used on early iver johnson, H&R and some others american firearms. it was the action that iver johnson and andrew fyrberg used when developing the "hammer the hammer" action known today as the transfer bar ignition system. there is a subchapter in my iver johnson book on this action (chapter 3.7) along with copies of tanter english patent.

the double trigger tanter shown above was just one of william tanter's many designs both percussion and cartridge.
bill

TranterUK · 02-09-2009, 12:59 PM

Yes he was quite the firearm maker. Here's one of his later military centre fires. You would be well armed with one of these...

A quick way of spotting a Tranter is the bump on the back of the trigger. It trips the hammer.

Enfield · 02-10-2009, 12:55 AM

I have to agree with you Tranter, they are superb quality weapons with lots of interesting design features. Was it the Tranter that had a little gear wheel on the loading lever that conected with teeth that drove the rod into the chambers ? I am sure friend had this arangement on arevolving rifle once

Funny enough I have just finished refurbishing a Tranter mould for a friend, strange it was all there but the hinge pin was missing - made another one press fit into the lower half of the mould and it is now as good as new.

Cheers

Enfield

noslolo · 02-14-2009, 01:26 AM

Another great post Tranter!! I love this site, I always learn so much.

BBQ · 12-27-2010, 05:31 AM

Here is my double trigger Tranter. It is a cartridge model built on the frame of an earlier percussion pistol, but apparently not retrofit to be a cartridge. I have seen no other one like it. I finally figured out how the extractor is supposed to work and got it unjammed so it indeed is functional. This gun is in great shape, though little bluing is left. I have no idea how my dad got it, but he had it already when I was born. I'm 58.
I live in Georgia USA, and would appreciate any insight or feedback. Thanks

gdmoody · 12-27-2010, 11:54 AM

Hey BBQ, welcome to the forum. That is a good looking revolver, though kind of weird.

What part of Georgia are you from, I live in Madison County.

RJay · 12-27-2010, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBQ

Here is my double trigger Tranter. It is a cartridge model built on the frame of an earlier percussion pistol, but apparently not retrofit to be a cartridge. I have seen no other one like it. I finally figured out how the extractor is supposed to work and got it unjammed so it indeed is functional. This gun is in great shape, though little bluing is left. I have no idea how my dad got it, but he had it already when I was born. I'm 58.
I live in Georgia USA, and would appreciate any insight or feedback. Thanks

TranterUK now has his own forum, Firearms Round Table http://thefirearmsroundtable.com/index.php

Jim K · 12-27-2010, 07:13 PM

Tranter was not the only one to use that system. Kynoch used it on Schlund patent cartridge revolvers, c. 1886. There apparently was some association between Tranter and Kynoch. The Kynoch revolvers are marked on the top of the barrel KYNOCH GUN FACTORY ASTON while Tranter's factory was nearby at Aston Cross. This example has the additional marking PATENT MODEL on the top strap.

In any case, the double trigger design is clever, and Schlund managed to get both triggers inside the trigger guard. It is not a true double action; like the Tranter and the American Starr, it is a trigger cocker. The bottom trigger cocks the conceald hammer, then pressing the top trigger releases the hammer to fire the revolver. Pulling both together with two fingers simulates double action. The lower trigger contains a catch that can be pulled down to uncock the revolver if it is cocked but then not to be fired. The spur at the rear above the grip is pulled down to "break" the revolver.

Kynoch revolvers were made in three sizes, No. 1 for cartridges like the .476 and .450, No. 2 for .380 and .320, and No. 3 for .300 and .297-.230. The one shown is a No. 2.

Before someone says it, no the gun is not the famous Diamancea, which was an entirely different revolver, using a striker type firing mechanism instead of the concealed hammer of the Kynoch. There is enough resemblance that there may be a connection with Tranter/Kynoch, but if so it is unproven.

Just FWIW, I have fired this Kynoch; it looks awkward, but in fact is quite easy to shoot in either mode of operation, and becomes familiar quickly.

Jim

Bill Akins · 01-05-2011, 09:39 PM

In the western movie "Hannie Caulder" Raquel Welch used the dual trigger, spurless hammer, Tranter percussion revolver. You can read about it at this link....
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Hannie_Caulder

and here's a pic of Raquel with the dual trigger Tranter. I know, I know, many will say "there's a revolver in the pic?" Lol.

I enlarged the Tranter from the above pic and rotated it so you can see it better. Looks to be a cartridge model or cartridge conversion because I don't see any nipples (on the gun guys, on the gun, Lol) on the cylinder and the barrel side mounted loading lever appears to be missing also.

.

Bill Akins · 01-05-2011, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TranterUK

It sounds a lot harder than it is. H&K even adopted the principle for their P7 with a squeeze cocking front strap. Hm.

Even earlier than H&K the lignose einhand semi auto pistol used the same trigger guard front strap cocking system as seen here...

More on the Lignose einhand pistol at this link.....

http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Lignose3/lignose3.html

Also the Chinese type 77 semi auto pistol uses the Lignose einhand (one hand) cocking system. As seen at this link....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_77_pistol

.

02-09-2009, 08:35 AM	#1
TranterUK Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 5,103	Double trigger Tranter The reason I use the Tranter name is that its an old English gun company I once worked for. William Tranter himself made guns from the 1850s and one of the most innovative might interest some of you. The double trigger revolver. The lower trigger cocks the action and the upper drops the hammer. So for single action fire, pull the lower only, then the upper when ready. For double action rapid fire, just pull both together. It sounds a lot harder than it is. H&K even adopted the principle for their P7 with a squeeze cocking front strap. Hm. The British percussion revolvers of the period were more robust than the American ones, note the sold frame and barrel. Also the thoughtful hump at the top of the backstrap to stop the weapon riding up. Just thought it might be of interest.. Attached Images __________________ DVC - Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas - Accuracy, Power, Speed. The light at the end of the recession tunnel IS a train coming the other way! --> Last edited by TranterUK; 02-09-2009 at 08:52 AM..

02-09-2009, 08:57 AM	#2
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,219	Re: Double trigger Tranter Sure would love to own one of those! Interesting, very interesting! Is this one yours? Now we know were you get your fourm name from. I chose carver years ago, because it is another of my hobbies. Don't do much carving these days though, folks just don't want to pay for the work! Attached Images __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old. Last edited by carver; 02-09-2009 at 09:00 AM..

02-09-2009, 09:33 AM	#3
TranterUK Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 5,103	Re: Double trigger Tranter Nice work carver, I wish I could carve, but wood seems to hate me. Its not my revolver, though I have had a couple pass through my hands over the years and have fired them a few times. Its surprisingly easy to get used to the system. __________________ DVC - Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas - Accuracy, Power, Speed. The light at the end of the recession tunnel IS a train coming the other way!

02-09-2009, 11:59 AM	#4
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Re: Double trigger Tranter Those revolvers were normally in .44 caliber, weren't they Tranter? __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)

02-09-2009, 12:50 PM	#6
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: Double trigger Tranter william tanter was also the developer of the double action mechanism (seperate single action sear) that was used on early iver johnson, H&R and some others american firearms. it was the action that iver johnson and andrew fyrberg used when developing the "hammer the hammer" action known today as the transfer bar ignition system. there is a subchapter in my iver johnson book on this action (chapter 3.7) along with copies of tanter english patent. the double trigger tanter shown above was just one of william tanter's many designs both percussion and cartridge. bill __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com

02-09-2009, 12:59 PM	#7
TranterUK Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 5,103	Re: Double trigger Tranter Yes he was quite the firearm maker. Here's one of his later military centre fires. You would be well armed with one of these... A quick way of spotting a Tranter is the bump on the back of the trigger. It trips the hammer. Attached Images __________________ DVC - Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas - Accuracy, Power, Speed. The light at the end of the recession tunnel IS a train coming the other way! Last edited by TranterUK; 02-09-2009 at 01:01 PM..

02-10-2009, 12:55 AM	#8
Enfield V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NZ Posts: 302	Re: Double trigger Tranter I have to agree with you Tranter, they are superb quality weapons with lots of interesting design features. Was it the Tranter that had a little gear wheel on the loading lever that conected with teeth that drove the rod into the chambers ? I am sure friend had this arangement on arevolving rifle once Funny enough I have just finished refurbishing a Tranter mould for a friend, strange it was all there but the hinge pin was missing - made another one press fit into the lower half of the mould and it is now as good as new. Cheers Enfield

02-14-2009, 01:26 AM	#9
noslolo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Johnstown PA Posts: 1,558	Re: Double trigger Tranter Another great post Tranter!! I love this site, I always learn so much. __________________ I'm a heck of a "obesito illegitimo"

12-27-2010, 05:31 AM	#10
BBQ Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2	Re: Double trigger Tranter Here is my double trigger Tranter. It is a cartridge model built on the frame of an earlier percussion pistol, but apparently not retrofit to be a cartridge. I have seen no other one like it. I finally figured out how the extractor is supposed to work and got it unjammed so it indeed is functional. This gun is in great shape, though little bluing is left. I have no idea how my dad got it, but he had it already when I was born. I'm 58. I live in Georgia USA, and would appreciate any insight or feedback. Thanks Last edited by BBQ; 12-27-2010 at 05:40 AM..

12-27-2010, 11:54 AM	#11
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,306	Re: Double trigger Tranter Hey BBQ, welcome to the forum. That is a good looking revolver, though kind of weird. What part of Georgia are you from, I live in Madison County. __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

12-27-2010, 07:13 PM	#13
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Double trigger Tranter Tranter was not the only one to use that system. Kynoch used it on Schlund patent cartridge revolvers, c. 1886. There apparently was some association between Tranter and Kynoch. The Kynoch revolvers are marked on the top of the barrel KYNOCH GUN FACTORY ASTON while Tranter's factory was nearby at Aston Cross. This example has the additional marking PATENT MODEL on the top strap. In any case, the double trigger design is clever, and Schlund managed to get both triggers inside the trigger guard. It is not a true double action; like the Tranter and the American Starr, it is a trigger cocker. The bottom trigger cocks the conceald hammer, then pressing the top trigger releases the hammer to fire the revolver. Pulling both together with two fingers simulates double action. The lower trigger contains a catch that can be pulled down to uncock the revolver if it is cocked but then not to be fired. The spur at the rear above the grip is pulled down to "break" the revolver. Kynoch revolvers were made in three sizes, No. 1 for cartridges like the .476 and .450, No. 2 for .380 and .320, and No. 3 for .300 and .297-.230. The one shown is a No. 2. Before someone says it, no the gun is not the famous Diamancea, which was an entirely different revolver, using a striker type firing mechanism instead of the concealed hammer of the Kynoch. There is enough resemblance that there may be a connection with Tranter/Kynoch, but if so it is unproven. Just FWIW, I have fired this Kynoch; it looks awkward, but in fact is quite easy to shoot in either mode of operation, and becomes familiar quickly. Jim Attached Images

01-05-2011, 09:39 PM	#14
Bill Akins Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 18	Re: Double trigger Tranter In the western movie "Hannie Caulder" Raquel Welch used the dual trigger, spurless hammer, Tranter percussion revolver. You can read about it at this link.... http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Talk:Hannie_Caulder and here's a pic of Raquel with the dual trigger Tranter. I know, I know, many will say "there's a revolver in the pic?" Lol. I enlarged the Tranter from the above pic and rotated it so you can see it better. Looks to be a cartridge model or cartridge conversion because I don't see any nipples (on the gun guys, on the gun, Lol) on the cylinder and the barrel side mounted loading lever appears to be missing also. . Last edited by Bill Akins; 01-05-2011 at 09:54 PM..