H&R "The American Double Action" observations: - The Firearms Forum

45Auto · 02-24-2009, 03:49 PM

There appear to be three different types of trigger guard on the medium frame H&R "The American Double Action revolver:

1. The two pins and a screw type: This one takes a screw in the front to hold the trigger guard to the frame, a short seperate pin holds the sear in the trigger guard and an addition pin in back of the sear pin holds the trigger guard to the frame. This one is the most easy model to work with if repairs are needed. Observed revolvers with this trigger guard have unmarked round barrels. It is hard to tell if a revolver has this type of trigger guard unless it is taken appart.

2. The one pin and a screw type: This one is also found on revolvers with a round barrel. There is the same screw in the front but the sear is held by the same pin that holds the trigger guard to the frame.

3. The two pins and no screw type: This type of trigger guard is the most common and it has been found on all of the octagon barrel revolvers I have seen so far. There is a pin in the front and a pin in the back to hold the trigger guard in place.

Am I correct in my assumption that the two pins and a screw type is the earliest?

b.goforth · 02-25-2009, 12:04 PM

yes i believe you are correct only i have never seen the two pins and one screw version. so fat i have only identified three variation of the first model american double action. can you send some pictures of the three types of trigger guard retainer you are talking about. all i have so far is;

AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION FIRST MODEL
(BLACK POWDER MODEL):----------------------------- 1884-1904
32 caliber 6 shot, 38 caliber 5 shot, 44 caliber 5 shot, pull pin cylinder release, barrel length 2½, 4½ & 6 inches nickel finish standard, blue considered rare
Marked on top strap “AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION”,
first variation will have a round barrel & nickel trigger guard------1884-1887
second variation will have a octagon barrel & nickel trigger guard-----1888-1897
third variation will have a octagon barrel , blue trigger guard and company name and address on left side of barrel----1898-1904
100%=$225 60%=$95, 1st Variation rarely seen, add 50% premium., for all American Double Actions variations and variants: add 15% premium, for blue finish, add 10% premium for 4 ½ “ or 6” barrel, add 5%-10% premium for nickel trigger guard (pre 1898)

bill

45Auto · 02-26-2009, 09:38 AM

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Hello Bill.

As requested, here is an image of the three types of trigger guard. From the bottom up:

1. Two pins and a screw type: The bottom example has two pin holes in the back. A short pin holds the sear in the trigger guard and the longer pin in back will secures the trigger guard to the frame. The front of the trigger guard is held in place by a screw. The screw is threaded into the hole which holds the cylinder tensioning spring and plunger.

2. One pin and a screw type: The trigger guard in the center of the above image has a screw in the front, but only one pin in the back. The single back pin has two functions, it holds the sear in place and also secures the back of the trigger guard into the frame. Not as easy to work with as the ealiest type, but with the aid of a short assembly pin it is easy enough.

3. Two pins only type: This is the most common trigger guard. The screw in the front has been replaced by a pin. This is the most common trigger guard found on solid frame H&R revolvers and clearly the most cost effective to manufacture.

How to spot the earliest type (without tools!):

The Most Common Type:

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Above is a common H&R "The American Double Action" Solid frame revolver. Note that the back trigger guard pin is directly below the hammer screw. This is the most common position for the back trigger guard pin. Revolvers with the back pin directly below the hammer screw have one pin only in the back of the trigger guard. There is no extra short pin holding the sear.

The Early two pins and a screw Type:

The above example has two trigger guard pins and a screw in the front. The back trigger guard retaining pin is the only one visible with the revolver assembled. Note how the back trigger guard pin is set back a little closer to the grip frame. It is not directly below the hammer screw. Inside the trigger guard is the second, short, pin upon which the sear pivots.

I have examined three "The American Double Action" revolvers with the two pins and screw trigger guard. Like the one above, all three were 6 shot .32 long caliber revolvers with round barrels.

Best regards,
Greg

b.goforth · 02-26-2009, 12:38 PM

thank you very much for the pictures. after your post i went back to the pictures of the guns that are not mine (so i could not disassembly) and discovered that there was a difference in the rear pin location. so now the problem is going to be trying to determine the years of use. which is going to be a major problem because i also discovered thateven the parts catalogs after 1905 still show the small sear retaing pin.

the easiest way out would be to simply earliest production of the first modell first variation have a rear trigger guard retaining pin in a slightly different location than later production.

this is going to cause the american double action section of the book to be revised (i still have time to do this). how much and if i will add another variation to the first model is yet to be decided.

thank you very much for this new discovery. i am going to save these pictures for future study
bill

45Auto · 02-26-2009, 02:45 PM

A pleasure to be of service, Bill.

Remember, you are welcome to use any information or pictures I have for publication.

Best regards,
Greg

b.goforth · 02-27-2009, 01:30 PM

thank you, i think for now this sub-variation is going to be a variation within the first model 1st variation with probable less than 100,000 and the use of the seperate sear pin within the first year of two of production. or it could be the other way around with a change made that just didn't work out. if a first model 2nd variation ever turns up with this seperate sear pin then we will know for sure.

bill

omer · 12-08-2009, 03:45 AM

Bill, I also have a first model in 38 S&W with the two pins and screw type trigger guard its batch number is 140.

b.goforth · 12-08-2009, 12:15 PM

it is possible there were two batch of first model first variation. i just don't know, but this is a very early production.

bill

omer · 12-08-2009, 01:00 PM

Bill
I believe they might have been after retaking the handles off I noticed the batch number was 104 not 140.I did try to take pics but my camera kept blurring with the nickel finish on it and the cheap camera I have.It is identical to "45Auto" last pic of the two pin and one screw revolver.Maybe H&R started with this style and later went to other trigger guards to help and cut cost.

Old Gun Guy · 01-28-2010, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 45Auto

[IMG]

[/IMG]

3. Two pins only type: This is the most common trigger guard. The screw in the front has been replaced by a pin. This is the most common trigger guard found on solid frame H&R revolvers and clearly the most cost effective to manufacture.

How to spot the earliest type (without tools!):

The Most Common Type:

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Above is a common H&R "The American Double Action" Solid frame revolver. Note that the back trigger guard pin is directly below the hammer screw. This is the most common position for the back trigger guard pin. Revolvers with the back pin directly below the hammer screw have one pin only in the back of the trigger guard. There is no extra short pin holding the sear.

Best regards,
Greg

Greg,
I have been looking for a trigger guard for my H&R double-action model'04 .32 6-shot. Can you tell me what part# Numrich has for this Trigger guard? I can't find the right one.
Ron

45Auto · 01-28-2010, 11:38 AM

If you specificaly ask for an H&R "Model 1904" trigger guard Numrich should be able to get you the right part. Although my last order from them contained the wrong parts. If my memory is right, the Model 04 should have a blued guard with a pin hole at each end. If Numrich can't help you send me a PM and I'll see if I have an extra.

Old Gun Guy · 01-28-2010, 02:21 PM

45Auto,
The numrich catalog #29 has a schematic and parts list for the 1904 H&R double action revolver (page 254). Under "parts unique to a 1904", it has a guard listed for a .32 caliber 6-shot, which I have. I ordered that part # 271530, and it is too large to fit the trigger guard channel.They have a guard listed for the 1904 .32 S&W 5-shot small frame, part # 271510. Do you think this would be the right one? I'm confused because they don't list a guard for the medium frame, which I believe I have. Numrich is swamped, and I can't contact them by phone or email.
Your help is greatly appreciated!
Old Gun Guy

Jim Hauff · 01-28-2010, 09:31 PM

Bill,
Re: The ADA 1st Model pins: Check the difference between the one with s/n 14 and the three with s/n's 171, 173 and 200 on the pics I sent you. The last three all have the pin location that would indicate they are "two-pin" types. Looks like there's more than meets the eye when comparing these pieces. 45 Auto - looks like you just added another variation to this ever evolving history. I've been looking at my examples for years and never really noticed the external difference - but it sure is there. On the later variations, they all have the "one" pin location, including the 2nd Models.
Thanks for the observations.

Old Gun Guy · 01-29-2010, 10:44 AM

Gentlemen,
And you wonder why I'm having problems sorting it out!

Old Gun Guy

b.goforth · 01-29-2010, 12:58 PM

jim,
when this was brought to my attention i did check the pictures and told 45auto this is going to change the variations of this model. now it looks like it is going to have to wait for a revised edition, the work on the book has gone to far but i may be able to get it in as a variation of one of the three majior variations, without illustrations. trying to discover dates on this variation can be difficult. most likely it will fit before the second variation

when we get to the final edit i will have to try to remember to look at thiis very closely. i am loookking at a note attached to my computer to do just that.
bill

b.goforth · 01-29-2010, 01:01 PM

old gun guy,
this is why the study of these old revolver is so much fun.
bill

45Auto · 01-29-2010, 05:33 PM

Old Gun Guy,

Does your revolver look like the one above? The above revolver is a .38, but H&R also made a 6 shot .32 on the same frame size.

Bill can correct me on this, but I think the medium frame .32 was smaller and held 5 shots.

Best regards,

Greg

Jim Hauff · 01-29-2010, 06:33 PM

The "Medium" Frame was the Model 1905 and indeed was the 5 shot chambered in .32 S&W only. The 1904 is another little studied model. I've been looking at the 7 that I have in my collection and I don't see a major difference in the trigger guards between the 6 X .32s and 5 X .38s - ALTHOUGH - one of the .38s (143080) has what appears to be a slightly different config. trigger guard. I don't take mine apart - perhaps a couple of you more adventurous or more skilled owners can shed more light on this subject.
Any and all information is certainly welcome.

Jim Hauff · 01-29-2010, 06:35 PM

Bill,
I saw what you posted, after I over reacted. Lot's of info coming out of these public forums. Remember when we couldn't get anything from anybody, about 13 years ago? H&R collecting seems to be an up and coming thing.

Old Gun Guy · 01-30-2010, 11:03 AM

45Auto,
Here is the info you requested in your PM to me. I will post it here so all can see. The distance between the pin holes ( outside-to-outside) is 1.95". The width of the trigger guard channel is .2870". It is definitely a 6-shot .32 S&W.
Old Gun Guy

45Auto · 01-30-2010, 01:13 PM

Hello Old Gun Guy,

That narrows it down. Trigger guards for "THE AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION" and similar revolvers are too wide to fit the '04.

It also appears that the markings on the top strap of the Model 1904 came in variations. On my .38 caliber example, "1904" is not abreviated.

PM to follow.

45Auto · 01-30-2010, 01:20 PM

It seems that I should clear things up about the frame sizes and model designations of these revolvers:

Now that I have done some checking, it appears that the Model 1904 came in only one frame size. The smaller 5 shot 32 was called the Model 1905. There was also a much smaller 7 shot 22 revolver called the Model 1906.

Jim Hauff · 01-31-2010, 05:35 PM

Good catch - check my posting from 1/29 on the different frame sizes vs. Models.

Also: the early .32 Model 1904s were marked with the '04 abreviation and the .38s were marked with the '1904' date. Late in production both calibers were marked with the full '1904.'

Old Gun Guy · 02-01-2010, 09:23 PM

Gentlemen,
Thank you for your inputs on the various idiosynchrasies of this particular model of the 1904 H&R revolver. However, I am still in a quandry about the information on the street.
Numrich claims there are three sizes of frames for the 1904 H&R revolver, although they can only come up with parts for two.
Some claim that the medium frame revolver is the 1905, only mine is a medium frame marked '04.
I have ordered every possible combination of trigger guard for my revolver, and so far to no avail. I think I'll melt them down for scrap metal price, and use the proceeds to pay for my therapist.

Old Gun Guy

Jim Hauff · 02-02-2010, 11:00 PM

Old Gun Guy,
The medium frame 1905 has a crescent shaped trigger with a "spur" or a forward pointing extension at the top by the frame (very much like the trigger on the S&W "Lemonsqueezer") and very similar to the trigger on the Premier Model. The Model 1904 has a curved trigger with a smooth transition at the top, similar to the American Double Action.

02-24-2009, 03:49 PM	#1
45Auto Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,121	H&R "The American Double Action" observations: There appear to be three different types of trigger guard on the medium frame H&R "The American Double Action revolver: 1. The two pins and a screw type: This one takes a screw in the front to hold the trigger guard to the frame, a short seperate pin holds the sear in the trigger guard and an addition pin in back of the sear pin holds the trigger guard to the frame. This one is the most easy model to work with if repairs are needed. Observed revolvers with this trigger guard have unmarked round barrels. It is hard to tell if a revolver has this type of trigger guard unless it is taken appart. 2. The one pin and a screw type: This one is also found on revolvers with a round barrel. There is the same screw in the front but the sear is held by the same pin that holds the trigger guard to the frame. 3. The two pins and no screw type: This type of trigger guard is the most common and it has been found on all of the octagon barrel revolvers I have seen so far. There is a pin in the front and a pin in the back to hold the trigger guard in place. Am I correct in my assumption that the two pins and a screw type is the earliest? -->

02-26-2009, 09:38 AM	#3
45Auto Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,121	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: [IMG][/IMG] Hello Bill. As requested, here is an image of the three types of trigger guard. From the bottom up: 1. Two pins and a screw type: The bottom example has two pin holes in the back. A short pin holds the sear in the trigger guard and the longer pin in back will secures the trigger guard to the frame. The front of the trigger guard is held in place by a screw. The screw is threaded into the hole which holds the cylinder tensioning spring and plunger. 2. One pin and a screw type: The trigger guard in the center of the above image has a screw in the front, but only one pin in the back. The single back pin has two functions, it holds the sear in place and also secures the back of the trigger guard into the frame. Not as easy to work with as the ealiest type, but with the aid of a short assembly pin it is easy enough. 3. Two pins only type: This is the most common trigger guard. The screw in the front has been replaced by a pin. This is the most common trigger guard found on solid frame H&R revolvers and clearly the most cost effective to manufacture. How to spot the earliest type (without tools!): The Most Common Type: [IMG][/IMG] Above is a common H&R "The American Double Action" Solid frame revolver. Note that the back trigger guard pin is directly below the hammer screw. This is the most common position for the back trigger guard pin. Revolvers with the back pin directly below the hammer screw have one pin only in the back of the trigger guard. There is no extra short pin holding the sear. The Early two pins and a screw Type: The above example has two trigger guard pins and a screw in the front. The back trigger guard retaining pin is the only one visible with the revolver assembled. Note how the back trigger guard pin is set back a little closer to the grip frame. It is not directly below the hammer screw. Inside the trigger guard is the second, short, pin upon which the sear pivots. I have examined three "The American Double Action" revolvers with the two pins and screw trigger guard. Like the one above, all three were 6 shot .32 long caliber revolvers with round barrels. Best regards, Greg Last edited by 45Auto; 02-26-2009 at 09:48 AM..

02-26-2009, 12:38 PM	#4
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: thank you very much for the pictures. after your post i went back to the pictures of the guns that are not mine (so i could not disassembly) and discovered that there was a difference in the rear pin location. so now the problem is going to be trying to determine the years of use. which is going to be a major problem because i also discovered thateven the parts catalogs after 1905 still show the small sear retaing pin. the easiest way out would be to simply earliest production of the first modell first variation have a rear trigger guard retaining pin in a slightly different location than later production. this is going to cause the american double action section of the book to be revised (i still have time to do this). how much and if i will add another variation to the first model is yet to be decided. thank you very much for this new discovery. i am going to save these pictures for future study bill __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com

02-26-2009, 02:45 PM	#5
45Auto Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,121	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: A pleasure to be of service, Bill. Remember, you are welcome to use any information or pictures I have for publication. Best regards, Greg

02-27-2009, 01:30 PM	#6
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: thank you, i think for now this sub-variation is going to be a variation within the first model 1st variation with probable less than 100,000 and the use of the seperate sear pin within the first year of two of production. or it could be the other way around with a change made that just didn't work out. if a first model 2nd variation ever turns up with this seperate sear pin then we will know for sure. bill __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com Last edited by b.goforth; 02-27-2009 at 01:33 PM..

02-25-2009, 12:04 PM	#2
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: yes i believe you are correct only i have never seen the two pins and one screw version. so fat i have only identified three variation of the first model american double action. can you send some pictures of the three types of trigger guard retainer you are talking about. all i have so far is; AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION FIRST MODEL (BLACK POWDER MODEL):----------------------------- 1884-1904 32 caliber 6 shot, 38 caliber 5 shot, 44 caliber 5 shot, pull pin cylinder release, barrel length 2½, 4½ & 6 inches nickel finish standard, blue considered rare Marked on top strap “AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION”, first variation will have a round barrel & nickel trigger guard------1884-1887 second variation will have a octagon barrel & nickel trigger guard-----1888-1897 third variation will have a octagon barrel , blue trigger guard and company name and address on left side of barrel----1898-1904 100%=$225 60%=$95, 1st Variation rarely seen, add 50% premium., for all American Double Actions variations and variants: add 15% premium, for blue finish, add 10% premium for 4 ½ “ or 6” barrel, add 5%-10% premium for nickel trigger guard (pre 1898) bill __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com

12-08-2009, 03:45 AM	#7
omer Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: Bill, I also have a first model in 38 S&W with the two pins and screw type trigger guard its batch number is 140.

12-08-2009, 12:15 PM	#8
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: it is possible there were two batch of first model first variation. i just don't know, but this is a very early production. bill __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com

12-08-2009, 01:00 PM	#9
omer Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: Bill I believe they might have been after retaking the handles off I noticed the batch number was 104 not 140.I did try to take pics but my camera kept blurring with the nickel finish on it and the cheap camera I have.It is identical to "45Auto" last pic of the two pin and one screw revolver.Maybe H&R started with this style and later went to other trigger guards to help and cut cost.

01-28-2010, 11:38 AM	#11
45Auto Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,121	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: If you specificaly ask for an H&R "Model 1904" trigger guard Numrich should be able to get you the right part. Although my last order from them contained the wrong parts. If my memory is right, the Model 04 should have a blued guard with a pin hole at each end. If Numrich can't help you send me a PM and I'll see if I have an extra.

01-28-2010, 02:21 PM	#12
Old Gun Guy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: N. Utah Contributor Posts: 489	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: 45Auto, The numrich catalog #29 has a schematic and parts list for the 1904 H&R double action revolver (page 254). Under "parts unique to a 1904", it has a guard listed for a .32 caliber 6-shot, which I have. I ordered that part # 271530, and it is too large to fit the trigger guard channel.They have a guard listed for the 1904 .32 S&W 5-shot small frame, part # 271510. Do you think this would be the right one? I'm confused because they don't list a guard for the medium frame, which I believe I have. Numrich is swamped, and I can't contact them by phone or email. Your help is greatly appreciated! Old Gun Guy

01-28-2010, 09:31 PM	#13
Jim Hauff Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 2,980	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: Bill, Re: The ADA 1st Model pins: Check the difference between the one with s/n 14 and the three with s/n's 171, 173 and 200 on the pics I sent you. The last three all have the pin location that would indicate they are "two-pin" types. Looks like there's more than meets the eye when comparing these pieces. 45 Auto - looks like you just added another variation to this ever evolving history. I've been looking at my examples for years and never really noticed the external difference - but it sure is there. On the later variations, they all have the "one" pin location, including the 2nd Models. Thanks for the observations. Last edited by Jim Hauff; 01-28-2010 at 09:45 PM..

01-29-2010, 10:44 AM	#14
Old Gun Guy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: N. Utah Contributor Posts: 489	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: Gentlemen, And you wonder why I'm having problems sorting it out! Old Gun Guy

01-29-2010, 12:58 PM	#15
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: jim, when this was brought to my attention i did check the pictures and told 45auto this is going to change the variations of this model. now it looks like it is going to have to wait for a revised edition, the work on the book has gone to far but i may be able to get it in as a variation of one of the three majior variations, without illustrations. trying to discover dates on this variation can be difficult. most likely it will fit before the second variation when we get to the final edit i will have to try to remember to look at thiis very closely. i am loookking at a note attached to my computer to do just that. bill __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com

01-29-2010, 01:01 PM	#16
b.goforth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston, tx Posts: 3,174	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: old gun guy, this is why the study of these old revolver is so much fun. bill __________________ Author: Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993 H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due spring 2010) available from www.gunshowbooks.com website; iverjohnsoncollector.x10hosting.com

01-29-2010, 05:33 PM	#17
45Auto Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,121	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: Old Gun Guy, Does your revolver look like the one above? The above revolver is a .38, but H&R also made a 6 shot .32 on the same frame size. Bill can correct me on this, but I think the medium frame .32 was smaller and held 5 shots. Best regards, Greg

01-29-2010, 06:33 PM	#18
Jim Hauff Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 2,980	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: The "Medium" Frame was the Model 1905 and indeed was the 5 shot chambered in .32 S&W only. The 1904 is another little studied model. I've been looking at the 7 that I have in my collection and I don't see a major difference in the trigger guards between the 6 X .32s and 5 X .38s - ALTHOUGH - one of the .38s (143080) has what appears to be a slightly different config. trigger guard. I don't take mine apart - perhaps a couple of you more adventurous or more skilled owners can shed more light on this subject. Any and all information is certainly welcome.

01-29-2010, 06:35 PM	#19
Jim Hauff Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 2,980	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: Bill, I saw what you posted, after I over reacted. Lot's of info coming out of these public forums. Remember when we couldn't get anything from anybody, about 13 years ago? H&R collecting seems to be an up and coming thing.

01-30-2010, 11:03 AM	#20
Old Gun Guy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: N. Utah Contributor Posts: 489	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: 45Auto, Here is the info you requested in your PM to me. I will post it here so all can see. The distance between the pin holes ( outside-to-outside) is 1.95". The width of the trigger guard channel is .2870". It is definitely a 6-shot .32 S&W. Old Gun Guy

01-30-2010, 01:13 PM	#21
45Auto Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,121	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: Hello Old Gun Guy, That narrows it down. Trigger guards for "THE AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION" and similar revolvers are too wide to fit the '04. It also appears that the markings on the top strap of the Model 1904 came in variations. On my .38 caliber example, "1904" is not abreviated. PM to follow.

01-30-2010, 01:20 PM	#22
45Auto Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,121	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: It seems that I should clear things up about the frame sizes and model designations of these revolvers: Now that I have done some checking, it appears that the Model 1904 came in only one frame size. The smaller 5 shot 32 was called the Model 1905. There was also a much smaller 7 shot 22 revolver called the Model 1906.

01-31-2010, 05:35 PM	#23
Jim Hauff Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 2,980	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: Good catch - check my posting from 1/29 on the different frame sizes vs. Models. Also: the early .32 Model 1904s were marked with the '04 abreviation and the .38s were marked with the '1904' date. Late in production both calibers were marked with the full '1904.' Last edited by Jim Hauff; 01-31-2010 at 05:38 PM..

02-01-2010, 09:23 PM	#24
Old Gun Guy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: N. Utah Contributor Posts: 489	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: Gentlemen, Thank you for your inputs on the various idiosynchrasies of this particular model of the 1904 H&R revolver. However, I am still in a quandry about the information on the street. Numrich claims there are three sizes of frames for the 1904 H&R revolver, although they can only come up with parts for two. Some claim that the medium frame revolver is the 1905, only mine is a medium frame marked '04. I have ordered every possible combination of trigger guard for my revolver, and so far to no avail. I think I'll melt them down for scrap metal price, and use the proceeds to pay for my therapist. Old Gun Guy

02-02-2010, 11:00 PM	#25
Jim Hauff Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 2,980	Re: H&R "The American Double Action" observations: Old Gun Guy, The medium frame 1905 has a crescent shaped trigger with a "spur" or a forward pointing extension at the top by the frame (very much like the trigger on the S&W "Lemonsqueezer") and very similar to the trigger on the Premier Model. The Model 1904 has a curved trigger with a smooth transition at the top, similar to the American Double Action. Last edited by Jim Hauff; 02-02-2010 at 11:02 PM..