De-Cocking a 1911

[Bill DeShivs]

I'm waiting.....
Anyone know why the 1911 was designed with a hammer?

[woolleyworm]

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

Browning designed earlier models with internal hammers......

and since the 1911 was designed specifically for combat duty, i think the external hammer provided more ease of manufacture, more durability in the field and lower cost to manufacture.

Most logical explaination that I can come up with.

[johnlives4christ]

i think that browning designed the 1911 with an external hammer for reliablity reasons under battlefield conditions. with a 1911 you dont have to check if the gun is loaded if it is cocked and locked. so you know it's ready, thats one plus. opposite of an internal hammer model. and with a 1911 if you drop it in the mud you would think that it is a drawback that the hammer is exposed, quite the opposite here. with an external hammer you can clean off the offending dirt/debree and have positive hammer fall again. but with an internal hammer, if you were to get dirt or mud or a piece of a twig in the gun. there is no easy way to clean it out under battlefield conditions.

my .02

[Bill DeShivs]

He designed it with an external hammer, so that it can be COCKED, and DECOCKED.
The 1911 was basically a replacement for the Single Action Army. The gun was also meant to be handled (one handed) by soldiers on horseback.
The whole "cocked & locked" thing was started by Jeff Cooper, and people picked up on it.

[TheGunClinger]

Originally Posted by woolleyworm

Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off. with full magazine
Condition 1 - Also known as "cocked and locked," means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied. full magazine
Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down. full mag
Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.
Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.

The safest way to carry a 1911 is in condition 1; this is assuming that you are "carrying". There's no sense in carrying a weapon that isn't ready to fire as in conditions 3/4. Yes, there are dangers in going to condition 2, if done improperly, the round can discharge. If one prefers to carry in condition 2, then practice, practice, practice and always remember rule #2.

Thanks for the clarification!

[thomas44]

Originally Posted by Suwannee Tim

One thing that makes me crazy is to see people point guns at other people.

You and me both !

[Bill DeShivs]

Man, this discussion took a sudden turn!
;^)

[Insulation Tim]

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

Man, this discussion took a sudden turn!
;^)

And I think that I started this thread way back when with a pretty simple, innocent question.

[yellerdawg]

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

He designed it with an external hammer, so that it can be COCKED, and DECOCKED.
The 1911 was basically a replacement for the Single Action Army. The gun was also meant to be handled (one handed) by soldiers on horseback.
The whole "cocked & locked" thing was started by Jeff Cooper, and people picked up on it.

I have watched this ...uh....thread since inception..and even commented once before I think.......

There are lots of people rekindling or re discovering "single action " revolvers due to the "cowboy" three gunstuff goin around...etc....I was being very polite before...in my "nice" two handed" style hammer take down....

Now the truth as I see it and practice....No one should ever take up as a defensive weapon ..one that they do not aquire training for...in one proper way or another...or feel comfortable that they can reliably and safely and effectively operate and utilize said weapon.....


That said......I am proficiant with the 1911 in either hand ...strong..weak....for firing and.......and ...yes......I say it.....

de-ckocking with the use of one hand...as I am quite sure Mr. Browning did himself......there is nothing wrong with being extra safe if desired....and utilizing two hands..and for most shooters I have seen lately wanting and aquiring a 1911 pistol..I indeed suggest they use two hands for this..of course....with my 1st choice for these, being to drop mag and rack....

That is my 2nd suggestion for newer shooters and those not properly efficient or trained on the weapon....my 1st being.....dont buy the 1911...save your money and go outside...around the building and go to the end of the long line waiting to buy an AR rifle..and get in that line....
you know...the AR rifles/Black semi style......the one that 90% want and pay (ANY) price for... to look like the one I slung around me...to allow using BOTH hands to hold and protect my b***s while in a gunship....and

never mind..I digress...


Sorry to sound shallow per this....but all the bases have been explored and covered....the most intelligent being..and I regret someone barely beat me to posting it....earlier auto's had internal hammers...the 1903 is still considered one of the finest pistols overall to date...along with the 1911...

Yet the "fool" exposed the hammer...what an idiot...what lack of foresight....could he possibly expect a shooter to gingerly drop the hammer down on a live round.......after all the previous years of SA revolver use as a warning....?

Anyway ..just felt like trying to add the fact...I use one hand to de-cock..
...primarily because I am confident in the use of my defensive weapon.

[jacksonco]

I have to stand by my earlier claim that it is perfectly safe to decock a 1911 with a round in the chamber.

To do so you need to place the web of the area between the thumb and index finger between the hammer and firing pin. You then pull the trigger with your free hand dropping the hammer on the web of your hand (no it doesn't hurt). You then remove your finger from the trigger and slowly remove the web of your hand from between the hammer and firing pin. This will lower the hammer to a 1/2 cock position. The hammer can then be lowered the remainder of the way from the 1/2 cock position.

These are the directions that Browning includes in the Hi-Power Instruction manual for decocking its hammer. Practice it on an unloaded gun.

All things said now I see no reason for having to lower a hammer on a loaded chamber even if it can be done safely. The chamber should be empty or loaded with the safety engaged. If you need to lower the hammer unload it first.

[Hammerslagger]

Simply put: a mil-spec, or Colt pre Series 80 commercial spec 1911 type pistol is NOT SAFE with the hammer all the way down on a loaded chamber!!! Even though a 1911 should have an inertia type firing pin, there have been accidents carrying "hammer down".

Some Chinese re-import U S Military 1911's and 1911A1's had had their US firing pins replaced by longer direct strike Chinese ones. Chinese commercial copies (like Norinco's) should be checked. The Chinese seemed to think direct strike design was more reliable.

A 1911 is even more dangerous it the hammer is lowered to the so called safety notch on a loaded chamber. This is like carrying a Colt SAA (Frontier Six Shooter) with six rounds in the cylinder, and the hammer in the safety notch. It is an accident waiting to happen. {By the end of the 19th century, the SAA had the folk reputation for having killed and injured more persons by accident, than any one other handgun had with hostile intent.} Only a person who is totally ignorant of firearms mechanics and safety; or an outright fool does so!

A 1911 is safest to carry with a loaded mag and an empty chamber. The only acceptable carry method with a round in the chamber is "cocked and manual safety engaged"; and in a holster that will not allow the manual safety to become disengaged as one moves around.

[Bill DeShivs]

Anyone who carries a 1911 should be able to tell whether the firing pin is inertial, and if the stop is loose.

[Evenflow]

I dont have my license to carry, so I really will probably never carry my 1911 around so pardon me for sounding ignorant.

But wouldn't it make more sense to carry with a rround in the chamber and hammer down, then hammer cocked. What happens if the safety gets switched off for whatever reason, and the hammer falls while your carrying.

Wouldn't it be safer to have the hammer down with a round in the chamber that way it cannot fall and fire?

[Insulation Tim]

Originally Posted by Evenflow

I dont have my license to carry, so I really will probably never carry my 1911 around so pardon me for sounding ignorant.

But wouldn't it make more sense to carry with a rround in the chamber and hammer down, then hammer cocked. What happens if the safety gets switched off for whatever reason, and the hammer falls while your carrying.

Wouldn't it be safer to have the hammer down with a round in the chamber that way it cannot fall and fire?

That's kind of my theory and why I started the thread a long while back. As you can see, there are proponents on both sides, though most seem to favor hammer cocked and safety on.

[Soleil]

I have been carrying a 1911 for 20 years. I carry in Condition 1 with the holster strap on the back of the slide between the hammer and pin. I usually de-cock one handed but always use two when at a crowded range or indoors. The gun is never pointed in a direction that would endanger people or pets, loaded or not.

[johnlives4christ]

Originally Posted by Evenflow

I dont have my license to carry, so I really will probably never carry my 1911 around so pardon me for sounding ignorant.

But wouldn't it make more sense to carry with a rround in the chamber and hammer down, then hammer cocked. What happens if the safety gets switched off for whatever reason, and the hammer falls while your carrying.

Wouldn't it be safer to have the hammer down with a round in the chamber that way it cannot fall and fire?

in my opinion, both are safe. with the hammer down on a live round. you cannot engage the weapon as quickly as you can mearly releasing the safety catch. but you might run the risk of dropping the gun or falling on the gun and that one in a million chance of it going off. i consider cocked and locked safe. i consider hammer down safe. there will always be people saying one way is better.

i have a smith and wesson 4006. it has a decocker/ safety. just like a beretta 92. when i load the chamber i hit the decocker. then flip the safety back off and carry it like that. the only time i put the safety on is if i am trying to carry the gun and a bunch of other stuff in my hands or pocket, to help protect from an accidental discharge. the former owner had that safety on at all times. it just depends on the person i reckon and what they are comfortable with

[Evenflow]

Originally Posted by johnlives4christ

in my opinion, both are safe. with the hammer down on a live round. you cannot engage the weapon as quickly as you can mearly releasing the safety catch. but you might run the risk of dropping the gun or falling on the gun and that one in a million chance of it going off. i consider cocked and locked safe. i consider hammer down safe. there will always be people saying one way is better.

i have a smith and wesson 4006. it has a decocker/ safety. just like a beretta 92. when i load the chamber i hit the decocker. then flip the safety back off and carry it like that. the only time i put the safety on is if i am trying to carry the gun and a bunch of other stuff in my hands or pocket, to help protect from an accidental discharge. the former owner had that safety on at all times. it just depends on the person i reckon and what they are comfortable with

So am I right in thinking that you take the safety off after decocking because now its a DA pull and that much harder for the trigger to get pulled than if it wasnt decokced, SA and go off.

[Hammerslagger]

I though I had posted on this subject but can not find it.

I carried a 1911A1 for more than 30 years, I can still likely quickly relearn to completely disassemble a loose GI one and reassemble it in less than ten minutes time, wearing a blindfold..

A 1911 is safest to carry with a loaded magazine and empty chamber. Some military organizations have ordered it to be carried this way unless an immediate threat is present.

It is considered acceptably safe by most knowledgeable persons to have a round in the chamber and the manual safety engaged. If carried this his way it should be in a holster that insures against the manual safety being accidentally disengaged.

A 1911 or 1911A1 IS NOT SAFE to carry with a round in the chamber ANY OTHER WAY! This is the collective wisdom of many experts and organizations that have used them for over 95 years.

There have been accidental discharges with the hammer all the way down. There have been more serious accidents with the hammer at the first (aka safety or half) cock point which was not designed to be a safe carry feature. Furthermore, one can grab it and slip the safety off about twice as fast as cocking the hammer to full cock!

The Colt Series 80 1911A1 (and possibly that of some other newer manufacturers) design attempts to overcome this potential safety problem by using a firing pin block that will only let the firing pin reach the primer when the trigger is all the way to the rear. This complex, delicate, clockwork feature is not good for extreme conditions reliability. I want nothing to do with it..

[johnlives4christ]

Originally Posted by Evenflow

So am I right in thinking that you take the safety off after decocking because now its a DA pull and that much harder for the trigger to get pulled than if it wasnt decokced, SA and go off.

yep.

[johnlives4christ]

it is perfectly safe to carry a 1911 with a round chambered and the hammer down. carrying a 1911 with a loaded magazine and an empty chamber, to me, is rather ignorant. it shows that a person is unfamiliar or perhaps even afraid of the firearm. there are some weapons im sure that arent safe to carry with a loaded chamber, an M3 grease gun would be one such weapon. but for the most part i cannot imagine anyone desiring to carry a handgun without one in the chamber. it would be irresponcible to do so in my opinion. the worst thing would be to carry one way sometimes, another way some other times. whenever you needed your gun the most, you would invariably not have it in the condition you thought you did, and either waste time checking or cause a malfuntion.

[techoca]

Originally Posted by Evenflow

So am I right in thinking that you take the safety off after decocking because now its a DA pull and that much harder for the trigger to get pulled than if it wasnt decokced, SA and go off.

A 1911 pistol is never double action.

[Evenflow]

Originally Posted by techoca

A 1911 pistol is never double action.

Never said it was, please read both posts.

[Boogieman]

Browning's first model was hammerless . The army requested a hammer. Browning submited a revised model that became the 1911.

[Maximilian II]

I'd prefer Condition 3 over Condition 2 myself, it has intrinsic advantages appreciated by Mossad and others, for a reason!
But in a pinch (when you REALLY want your pistol ready!) Condition 1 is the next best thing to having already shot the problem!

[MAGNUM44]

As a new member & new to 1911 gun"s can someone please explain the 3 conditions of the 1911 carry in detail to me, I will appreciate it, Thanks.