What good is the 2nd Amendment?

[bluesea112]

I have been thinking that it is great that the forefathers gave us a 2nd Amendment. Unfortunately, they did not include any instructions on how to resist the Federal government.
The current Presidential administration's plans for this country is exactly why the forefathers gave us a 2nd amendment. It has come time for us to resist an administration bound for autocracy, but we cannot do it. Sure, I have a gun and all of you have guns. The reality is that when the ATF shows up at your door to confiscate your gun, you will hand it over like a coward. Damn, I guess I will too. What choice do we have? If we resist, we will be shot. Even worse, we will be seen as a "nut" and be broadcast in the news as an example of justification for the gun ban!
When it comes down to it, what good is the 2nd amendment? How did the forefathers expect the citizens to stand up against such a powerful Federal government?
If you think you can take a stand and make a difference without being viewed as a nut, then you need a history lesson.

Lesson 1: Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge
Lesson 2: David Koresh at Waco (Need I remind you that the Feds were getting their ass kicked so they brought in an Abrams tank)

Perhaps your response is, "Randy and David don't count because they really were crazy." .....Thank you for making my point.

So now I ask again, what good is the 2nd Amendment?

[GunHugger]

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.
--Thomas Jefferson--


War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
--John Stewart Mill--

[bluesea112]

Those are great quotes GunHugger, and I agree with all my heart. But I don't see a single sentance in those quotes that gives us any knowledge of how to make a stand without being crushed like beer can and seen as a nut case in the public eye.

[RunningOnMT]

Originally Posted by GunHugger

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.
--Thomas Jefferson--


War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
--John Stewart Mill--

Amen.

[neptoon]

There is a difference between giving your guns to whoever or making whoever take them from you.It is a line, and as an American, you would have to decide the side you want to be on.I know the side Iwill be on.I an 72 years old.Not much to lose.Let whoever try and take them away! God help America!

[Vasily Zaytsev]

THEY are betting that WE dont have the belly for war, and that they will round up the 20 million of so domestic terrorists during a time when the law has been suspended.

Somewhere along the way, the liberals have rewrtten history so that they have forgotten what it is to be American.

The funny part is they they WE have also

The sad part is everyone that posts on these boards will be the first to go

[Haligan]

Originally Posted by Vasily Zaytsev

The sad part is everyone that posts on these boards will be the first to go

Shhhhhhh ! This place is a secret and nobody's watching here.

[RunningOnMT]

Bluesea, I think it is up to us to work it out. Waco and Ruby Ridge were isolated incidences. In the case we are talking about the attempt at confiscation would be happening all over, not effecting just one person or small group. It is at that point that you will know it is time to take a stand. No one demands a personal sacrifice from you but you have the ability to assume an individual role for the cause of freedom and accept the risk. Certainly any successful struggle requires it's martyrs and those willing to sacrifice all for the cause.

I understand your dilemma. It feels like we are overpowered before we even start. I'm sure Washington and the continental army felt the same way. Certainly because in the past we have allowed government to take away our rights to certain means of self defense that leaves us at a disadvantage. We are definately the underdog here, so we must be united. United we stand, divided we fall. That's why it's nice to have friends that share your beliefs. No one can be a one man army but people can act individually having faith that others are doing the same and that faith unites us.

[Haligan]

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

Bluesea, I think it is up to us to work it out. Waco and Ruby Ridge were isolated incidences. In the case we are talking about the attempt at confiscation would be happening all over, not effecting just one person or small group. It is at that point that you will know it is time to take a stand. No one demands a personal sacrifice from you but you have the ability to assume an individual role for the cause of freedom and accept the risk. Certainly any successful struggle requires it's martyrs and those willing to sacrifice all for the cause.

I understand your dilemma. It feels like we are overpowered before we even start. I'm sure Washington and the continental army felt the same way. Certainly because in the past we have allowed government to take away our rights to certain means of self defense that leaves us at a disadvantage. We are definately the underdog here, so we must be united. United we stand, divided we fall. That's why it's nice to have friends that share your beliefs. No one can be a one man army but people can act individually having faith that others are doing the same and that faith unites us.

Yea !

[islenos]

If the 2nd Amendment is shot down, not all is lost.
For it will fall to the states that have their own constitutional guarantee such as Texas:

THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1. BILL OF RIGHTS
Sec. 23. RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.

These State Laws will stay in effect under the protection of the 10 Amendment:
10th Powers not delegated to the United States or denied to states are reserved to the states or to the people.

So the current administration can take away the national protection but they do not have the power to strike down a State Constitution. The only way to trump the State Constitutions is to add an Amendment to the US Constitution making firearms illegal and that is a very very difficult proposition.

[bcj1755]

Originally Posted by islenos

If the 2nd Amendment is shot down, not all is lost.
For it will fall to the states that have their own constitutional guarantee such as Texas:

THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1. BILL OF RIGHTS
Sec. 23. RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.

These State Laws will stay in effect under the protection of the 10 Amendment:
10th Powers not delegated to the United States or denied to states are reserved to the states or to the people.

So the current administration can take away the national protection but they do not have the power to strike down a State Constitution. The only way to trump the State Constitutions is to add an Amendment to the US Constitution making firearms illegal and that is a very very difficult proposition.

But if the Feds void the 2nd Amendment, do you really think they'll give two craps about violating the state constitutions when they start the confications? The Feds treat the states like subjects anyhow, acting like the states are subservient to DC. The confiscations are coming and I highly doubt that the state governments will do anything to stop them lest they risk losing all that big Fed money.

[1shot1k]

With over thirty states having some form of CCH , I really have doubted that the number of states needed for all out ban would happen.....

be ready for taxes and certain long gun bans though.....

[4EvrLearning]

THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1. BILL OF RIGHTS
Sec. 23. RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State;

The word "lawful" is what stopped me here. If our government succeeds in passing anti-gun laws, then there will be no "lawful defense." True?

[islenos]

Originally Posted by 4EvrLearning

The word "lawful" is what stopped me here. If our government succeeds in passing anti-gun laws, then there will be no "lawful defense." True?

No Yankee in DC is going to tell a Texan how the cow ate the cabbage.

[Artemus]

Originally Posted by bluesea112

I have been thinking that it is great that the forefathers gave us a 2nd Amendment. Unfortunately, they did not include any instructions on how to resist the Federal government.
The current Presidential administration's plans for this country is exactly why the forefathers gave us a 2nd amendment. It has come time for us to resist an administration bound for autocracy, but we cannot do it. Sure, I have a gun and all of you have guns. The reality is that when the ATF shows up at your door to confiscate your gun, you will hand it over like a coward. Damn, I guess I will too. What choice do we have? If we resist, we will be shot. Even worse, we will be seen as a "nut" and be broadcast in the news as an example of justification for the gun ban!
When it comes down to it, what good is the 2nd amendment? How did the forefathers expect the citizens to stand up against such a powerful Federal government?
If you think you can take a stand and make a difference without being viewed as a nut, then you need a history lesson.

Lesson 1: Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge
Lesson 2: David Koresh at Waco (Need I remind you that the Feds were getting their ass kicked so they brought in an Abrams tank)

Perhaps your response is, "Randy and David don't count because they really were crazy." .....Thank you for making my point.

So now I ask again, what good is the 2nd Amendment?

If it wasn't for the 2nd amendment,the first and third would be jammed together.

[RunningOnMT]

Originally Posted by islenos

No Yankee in DC is going to tell a Texan how the cow ate the cabbage.

Oh man, a cow on cabbage. I'd definately be avoiding that.

[45nut]

Correctly stated:

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Thomas Jefferson

bluesea,

They did give us instructions, as much as they could. If / when confiscations start, I don't believe our local LEO's are going to be doing it, with the exception of large urban police forces, but then it may be the National Civilian Security Force doing it.

As far as sacrifices go, some may have to resist enough to cause a rukus big enough so that the rest can prepare. I'll stick with President Heston on this one.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience has shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.


Randy & David weren't nuts, they were in fact TEST CASES for the Fed Gov, to see how the sheeple would react. CS tear gas is highly flammable and it says on the case; "Do not use near open flame" The BD only had fuel oil lanterns for light and stoves for eating & heating. The place was burned down to cover the evidence of the .50 cal rounds coming into the compound from the usurped helicopter.

Don't get me started on the test cases for religious "nuts", David Koresh, polygamists, etc, like all the children that the State of Texas kidnapped last year with exactly no evidence.

[islenos]

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

Oh man, a cow on cabbage. I'd definately be avoiding that.

Sorry, it's just one of those sayings from my grandfather, like, Crazier then a peach orchard boar and cut off my legs and call me shorty.

[new308handloader]

I think more people than you realize will fight it....but can't say it publicly unless you want to be put at the top of the list. True, not much you can do when a squad of 6-8 ATF are already at your door....it is too late then. I want to believe that gun owners will quickly come together with a plane at the time confiscation begins. However, confiscation will begin with voluntarily turning in your weapons....unfortunatly, many will do that. It would not surprise me at all to see gun owners come up with an offensive plan when confiscation begins...it seems it would be easier for 6-8 gun owners to take out 6-8 ATF peeps as they are on their way to someones house.

[islenos]

just put toe poppers in your yard, you'll hear them scream before the knock on your door..... just be careful when mowing

[Craiglylesa1]

I wonder how many of those ATF agents will surrender thier personal weapons?, How many Agents will enforce "That Law", will follow that order. Thats some heavy stuff if you think about it. The order to disarm a people that have been armed for centuries. That have served in a volunteer armed service. They will only get the law abbiding citizens. The scumbags will still have'em illegally. What happens to the guy who issues that order or signs that law? Its a reality that we could face. My only advice.... give to the NRA and vote out the lemmings.

[swiftman]

Jefferson stated that the 2nd amendment was put there , to be use when the government tried to take it away.
Take this how ever you like.

[Teejay9]

A lot of stuff will happen before we have to decide to trade shots with the National Police Force (read GESTAPO). There are still plenty of Reps and Senators of both parties that will fight against a repeal of the 2nd Amendment constitutionally, then the Supreme Court will have to deal with challenges and counter-challenges. Then, if all of that fails, there will be a "voluntary" turn in followed by a "mandatory" turn in. Then small groups of resisters will start sniping, and depending if they really have the stomach and the power to fight, it will start to break out into civil war. I don't expect a knock on the door just yet. We the People will resist this as per our constitutional duty in many different ways. Don't despair. We have not yet begun to fight. TJ

[Mr. Nameless]

George S. Patton
No good decision was ever made in a swivel chair.

Thats all I have to say on this subject.

[308 at my gate]

Originally Posted by bcj1755

But if the Feds void the 2nd Amendment, do you really think they'll give two craps about violating the state constitutions when they start the confications? The Feds treat the states like subjects anyhow, acting like the states are subservient to DC. The confiscations are coming and I highly doubt that the state governments will do anything to stop them lest they risk losing all that big Fed money.

I thought that there was a recent case that went before the supreme court of the united states that upheld the right to have a hand gun and to bear arms.