berry's bullets

[sewerman]

okay as a noobie i have painted myself into another corner.

i purchased some berry's 150gr copper plated 30-30 bullets over the week-end come to find i have no start load data with this bullet using IMR 3031 powder.

i have been told when there is no data for copper plated bullets then load them as if they were cast.
i do have data for 150gr cast bullets but nothing using IMR 3031.

now what? .............i did contact berry's about this but who knows if or when they will repy.

sewerman

[gdmoody]

A 150 grain bullet is a 150 grain bullet. Here is the load data from Hornady #7 manual. It does have a load for IMR 3031. I loaded some 30/30 today with 150 grain using IMR 4064

I hope this helps:

[sewerman]

Originally Posted by gdmoody

A 150 grain bullet is a 150 grain bullet. Here is the load data from Hornady #7 manual. It does have a load for IMR 3031. I loaded some 30/30 today with 150 grain using IMR 4064

I hope this helps:

thanks, i kinda felt the same way yet seems like the different loads relate to the many different kinds of bullets, FMJ,plated,cast, cast w/gaschek.

i do see from the chart that IMR is shown which is just alittle less then the 29.5 grs my data shows for a jacketed bullet.

thanks, now i feel better having somemore input as to where to start.

sewerman

[Bruce FLinch]

The Plated bullets typically take a bit more powder than lead. I would use a jacketed bullet recipe.

[DWARREN123]

Start at the lower to mid level of jacketed data for plated. Work up as with any load.

[LDBennett]

sewerman:

Is it a lever 30-30 that you are reloading for?

If so, what is the shape of the nose of the plated bullets you have?

If they are not a rounded nose with a flat or hollow point then you are asking for trouble. Tube feed guns, like the common 30-30, store the cartridges in the tube, end to end. If the bullets are at all shaped such that the pointed end does not bridge across the primer of the next bullet in the tube then you risk the primer of cartridges in the loading tube going off with recoil. This is extremely dangerous to you and others in the shooting area !!!

30-30 tube fed lever guns should only use bullets expressly designed for 30-30 guns. But you probably already know this. This is meant as just a warning to others who may not know.

LDBennett

[Alpo]

If you go to Berry's website http://www.berrysmfg.com/product.asp...&pp=8&sb=0&p=0 you will notice that the bullet in question is a flat point (quite safe in tube magazines), but you should also notice where it says not to shoot them faster than 1700 fps. That's pretty dang slow for a 30/30, and slower than the starting loads for jacketed bullets in any manual that I am aware of.

If you read their FAQs, there is
How do I load these bullets? "Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads. "
How fast can I shoot these bullets? "Velocities depend on the caliber, but as a rule of thumb, we recommend you don't shoot our plated bullets over 1200 feet-per-second. Our 44's actually shoot best around 1150 fps. 45's are generally good at 850-900 fps. Our bullets are not recommended for magnum velocities."

[sewerman]

Originally Posted by LDBennett

sewerman:

Is it a lever 30-30 that you are reloading for?

If so, what is the shape of the nose of the plated bullets you have?

If they are not a rounded nose with a flat or hollow point then you are asking for trouble. Tube feed guns, like the common 30-30, store the cartridges in the tube, end to end. If the bullets are at all shaped such that the pointed end does not bridge across the primer of the next bullet in the tube then you risk the primer of cartridges in the loading tube going off with recoil. This is extremely dangerous to you and others in the shooting area !!!

30-30 tube fed lever guns should only use bullets expressly designed for 30-30 guns. But you probably already know this. This is meant as just a warning to others who may not know.

LDBennett

thanks for the concern for my safety

the bullets are the 150gr FN plated bullets sold by berry's.

sewerman

[sewerman]

Originally Posted by Alpo

If you go to Berry's website http://www.berrysmfg.com/product.asp...&pp=8&sb=0&p=0 you will notice that the bullet in question is a flat point (quite safe in tube magazines), but you should also notice where it says not to shoot them faster than 1700 fps. That's pretty dang slow for a 30/30, and slower than the starting loads for jacketed bullets in any manual that I am aware of.

If you read their FAQs, there is
How do I load these bullets? "Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads. "
How fast can I shoot these bullets? "Velocities depend on the caliber, but as a rule of thumb, we recommend you don't shoot our plated bullets over 1200 feet-per-second. Our 44's actually shoot best around 1150 fps. 45's are generally good at 850-900 fps. Our bullets are not recommended for magnum velocities."

well that's good to know, thanks.
my lee 2nd edition shows jacketed 150 gr bullets at 29.5 grs of IMR traveling at 2300!! i'd say that's much too fast from what i read here.
there is a 150gr lead cast bullet shown using VEC tu2000 powder 18.5 grs traveling at 1870fps which, from what i read is still too fast!
even the article by chuck hawks on 30-30 loads showing a 100 gr bullet using 15.0 grs of SR 4759 is clocking to 1834!!

i may need some enlightenment here but i was understanding that too little powder in a large case can be just as dangeous as too much powder, causing extreme pressures. am i correct here or have i missed something?
i have read about poly fillers being used?

thanks,
sewerman

[LDBennett]

The trick is to use more filling powders made especially for cast bullets in mind. A Cast Bullet Reloading Manual may be in order to find the load that would be appropriate and safe.

I have avoid experiments like this and stick to jacketed bullets in my several 30-30 guns. I have found some cost savings in buying either Winchester or Remington "Bulk" bullets packaged in baggies of 100 bullets. Boxed Sierra, Speer, or Hornady bullets can cost significantly more than the bulk bullets but if absolute accuracy is paramount, the boxed bullets might be a better choice.

Mike Venturino's book on "Shooting Lever Action Guns of the Old West" has a section on shooting cast bullets in the 30-30. But none are plated bullets and the most successful ones are cast bullets with gas checks installed. The gas check allows much higher velocities than suggest here for plated bullets. He likes XMP5744 (Accurate Arms, I believe) and IMR 3031 for cast bullets loads for 30-30. Following his lead might allow the use of cast bullet loads in a 30-30 that actually perform well and operate at reasonable velocities.

LDBennett

[sewerman]

Originally Posted by LDBennett

The trick is to use more filling powders made especially for cast bullets in mind. A Cast Bullet Reloading Manual may be in order to find the load that would be appropriate and safe.

I have avoid experiments like this and stick to jacketed bullets in my several 30-30 guns. I have found some cost savings in buying either Winchester or Remington "Bulk" bullets packaged in baggies of 100 bullets. Boxed Sierra, Speer, or Hornady bullets can cost significantly more than the bulk bullets but if absolute accuracy is paramount, the boxed bullets might be a better choice.

Mike Venturino's book on "Shooting Lever Action Guns of the Old West" has a section on shooting cast bullets in the 30-30. But none are plated bullets and the most successful ones are cast bullets with gas checks installed. The gas check allows much higher velocities than suggest here for plated bullets. He likes XMP5744 (Accurate Arms, I believe) and IMR 3031 for cast bullets loads for 30-30. Following his lead might allow the use of cast bullet loads in a 30-30 that actually perform well and operate at reasonable velocities.

LDBennett

this reloading gig is an amazing way to show one's stupidity and waste money and have fun at the same time!
my purchase of these plated bullets was just to help cut cost. i'm rapidly finding out this is a worthless effort.

i have talked to IMR and was strongly advised not to reduce loads using
3031.
i suggested using trail boss which they agree upon. IMR informed me to first determine the bullet depth i would be using then fill the case to base of seated bullet ....this is the max load. work down from there to get what i want.
whew sounds like alotta effort just to plink and punch paper!

guess i will bite the bullet...no pun intended, and set the 3031 aside till i can find some price effective FMJ locally or order some in. meanwhile now i gotta clean up and go purchase some trail boss!

wish me luck!

sewerman

[army mp]

I don’t know if this will help but I looked at the berry book Max velocity 1700 fps, and I checked my cast book. it shows loads for a 151gr cast flat nose in 3030. The loads they show are mainly shot gun/ pistol powders
Like red dot, Green dot, and unique. These powders will push the bullet from1231 fps low to 1691fps max. I am getting older and not that great on the Computer or I would scan and post the page for you.

[sewerman]

appreciate all the help fellas.



i got some trail boss, a slow burning powder designed for reduced loads in cowboy shooting.
looks like 10grs is filling the case to just a tad below the bottom of the neck.
i'll start with an OAL of 2.550" and go from there.
if i learn or hear anything more i will post.
thanks again, hopefully i won't have to change my name to KA-Boom!
sewerman

25mar

followed the advice of IMR tech and loaded 10grs of trail boss with OAL 2.550"
accuracy was very good recoil and report was very diminished as compared to factory rds.
sight adjustment for bullet drop indicated significant loss in velocity.
thanks for everyones input, the trail boss seemed to do me good and i can use it in the 357/38spl loads too.
sincerely,

sewerman (no ka-boom)

[doctorxring]

.

I shoot a lot of the Berry's 150 grain 30 caliber bullets.
Especially in my 30-30's.

This has been an excellent load for me in 30-30.

15 grains of Blue Dot.

You can't push the Berry's 150 too hard. It's not
designed for that. But they are accurate. This
groups was fired with an open sighted single shot.

[Alpo]

Originally Posted by sewerman

guess i will bite the bullet...no pun intended, and set the 3031 aside till i can find some price effective FMJ locally or order some in. meanwhile now i gotta clean up and go purchase some trail boss!

wish me luck!

sewerman

I missed this post the last time around, but I wanna throw out some more info.

FMJ bullets, in 30 caliber, are generally made for military firearms, and are either a pointed RN in 110 grains for the M1 Carbine, or a Pointed Spitzer in 147 or 150 grains, for the ought six or the 7.62 NATO.

Loading a pointed FMJ into a 30/30, and then loading it into a tube magazine (Winchester, Marlin, Mossberg) is asking for a magazine explosion. If you are going to be using them in a single-shot, or a box magazine (Savage pump or bolt action) then the FMJs are fine. But in a tube you are asking for trouble.